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Artisans wanted Agen area


Emma C
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I have purchased two houses near Agen both of them need renovating

All trades area required, you must be registered in France, references will be required.

If you are interested a full shedule of work is available, work to be started as close to March 2007 as possible.

Thanks

Emma C

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I don't know about the area but from my own experience, if you are looking at French artisans, I think March 2007 might be a bit optimistic !!

Although one is paying them for their services and thus the "customer is king", I have always felt that such attitudes to local artisans would be the "kiss of death" to ever getting anything done. I try to be as easy going and friendly as possible (beers in fridge, etc.). Given that any who are half decent have full order books, marching in with "references will be required" would cause all round me to just not bother (as there is loads of easier work).

However, I can only talk about my own local experience (and what other local have told me).

Ian

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[quote user="Deimos"]

I don't know about the area but from my own experience, if you are looking at French artisans, I think March 2007 might be a bit optimistic !!

Although one is paying them for their services and thus the "customer is king", I have always felt that such attitudes to local artisans would be the "kiss of death" to ever getting anything done. I try to be as easy going and friendly as possible (beers in fridge, etc.). Given that any who are half decent have full order books, marching in with "references will be required" would cause all round me to just not bother (as there is loads of easier work).

However, I can only talk about my own local experience (and what other local have told me).

Ian

[/quote]

Je suis d'accord.

Editted:

Round here it is the customer who has to provide the references!

To chase up a devis (or a promise to come to look) I have to become a stalker!

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[quote user="Deimos"]

I don't know about the area but from my own experience, if you are looking at French artisans, I think March 2007 might be a bit optimistic !!

Although one is paying them for their services and thus the "customer is king", I have always felt that such attitudes to local artisans would be the "kiss of death" to ever getting anything done. I try to be as easy going and friendly as possible (beers in fridge, etc.). Given that any who are half decent have full order books, marching in with "references will be required" would cause all round me to just not bother (as there is loads of easier work).

However, I can only talk about my own local experience (and what other local have told me).

Ian

[/quote]

Where do some people get the idea that only good/half decent artisans have full books, inferring that those who dont have full books are not good. There are people starting off that are well qualified for their respective jobs who have little or no work at present, if a client is told that they can start immediately should that client then assume that the artisans are not good at their chosen profession ??

It really gets to me that people are pigeon holed by the fullness of their order books or by the lack of work backload ?????????????????????

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[quote user="icmenuiserie"]HI, not sure about the whole job, but if you need any type of wood, window, doors, shutters solid oak or chestnut flooring get in touch with me and we can talk about your requirements.....March 2007 is possible for the things I have listed, but for us, not the whole job! Hope that helps[/quote]

Hey there ic menuiserie!

First post and you're trying to harvest work? I'm guessing things might be a little tough for you at the mo or you're just starting out and doing some market research?

Got a siret number?

edit; agree with you Hugh but equally we could be looking at an unregistered rip off merchant with a laptop trawling for business. My alarm bells always ring at posts of this type. Perhaps I'm just a cynic but my life experience leads me that way.

 

 

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[quote user="wife doesnt post so just call me hugh for now"][quote user="Deimos"]

I don't know about the area but from my own experience, if you are looking at French artisans, I think March 2007 might be a bit optimistic !!

Although one is paying them for their services and thus the "customer is king", I have always felt that such attitudes to local artisans would be the "kiss of death" to ever getting anything done. I try to be as easy going and friendly as possible (beers in fridge, etc.). Given that any who are half decent have full order books, marching in with "references will be required" would cause all round me to just not bother (as there is loads of easier work).

However, I can only talk about my own local experience (and what other local have told me).

Ian

[/quote]

Where do some people get the idea that only good/half decent artisans have full books, inferring that those who dont have full books are not good. There are people starting off that are well qualified for their respective jobs who have little or no work at present, if a client is told that they can start immediately should that client then assume that the artisans are not good at their chosen profession ??
It really gets to me that people are pigeon holed by the fullness of their order books or by the lack of work backload ?????????????????????
[/quote]

Read what I wrote.  I was talking about my local experience.  I was not making global statements about artisans and order books in France.  Read the last line "However, I can only talk about my own local experience (and what other local have told me)."
Ian

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[quote user="Chris Head"]

[quote user="icmenuiserie"]HI, not sure about the whole job, but if you need any type of wood, window, doors, shutters solid oak or chestnut flooring get in touch with me and we can talk about your requirements.....March 2007 is possible for the things I have listed, but for us, not the whole job! Hope that helps[/quote]

Hey there ic menuiserie!

First post and you're trying to harvest work? I'm guessing things might be a little tough for you at the mo or you're just starting out and doing some market research?

Got a siret number?

edit; agree with you Hugh but equally we could be looking at an unregistered rip off merchant with a laptop trawling for business. My alarm bells always ring at posts of this type. Perhaps I'm just a cynic but my life experience leads me that way.

[/quote]

What's your problem CH?

Emma, asked for artisans and icmeneuiserie offered! When we were looking for work years ago, we happily trawled the websites for business and many of our best clients (who are now friends) came to us via this route.

Is there some green eye going on?

zeb

Edit: sorry about the quote format - perhaps it's my old iMac!
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>>What's your problem CH? <<                                                                                               Someone's had more than their fair share of the beetroot chutney and won't own up, pretty sneaky eh? I'll have to stash some of the next lot!

>>Is there some green eye going on? <<
Not unless he's got an amplifier that can power four 125watt Celestion speakers without blowing up!

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what astounds me is that when talking about getting artisans, the constant inference that you are at their mercy, and they come when their ready. Not so. If someone wants to earn my m,oney, theyu come when i am ready to my schedule. If they cannot handle the buyer (me) being in control, i am happy that they don't have the work. I would never consider bullying a workman, and i won't consider being bullied by one either. Personally, i think when they see enough high value work heading south, they may start to wonder why, and act accordingly
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My own simple experience is that I contacted three seperate companies to do my sewer works.

Two of them visited to view the proposed works. Only one of those replied with a devis that was in my opinion too much. I did however reply to them with a courteous letter in that I informed them that I was considering other devis and would contact them later if they were required.

Because the other two didn't reply I was therefore left to do the works myself and won't bother asking any other trades people to do any of the other works. It probably isn't much of a problem to me as I have a lot of time on my hands but it seems sad that in a country where it is "supposedly" hard to earn a living that there seems such a lax attitude to follow up.

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[quote user="chief"]what astounds me is that when talking about getting artisans, the constant inference that you are at their mercy, and they come when their ready. Not so. If someone wants to earn my m,oney, theyu come when i am ready to my schedule. If they cannot handle the buyer (me) being in control, i am happy that they don't have the work. I would never consider bullying a workman, and i won't consider being bullied by one either. Personally, i think when they see enough high value work heading south, they may start to wonder why, and act accordingly[/quote]

I completely understand your sentiments Chief, but in my experience it's simply a question of supply and demand. In many areas of France there is much more demand for the services of Artisans than they can supply. Artisans who do good work, who are honest and reliable have far more work than they can service, therefore they have to be in control of their business otherwise the logistics can easily spiral out of control and standards start to suffer. Also think about the financial structures of business here, there isn't alot of point going at full speed earning as much as you can when one is so heavily penalised for hard work as a small businessman. All of the Artisans I know have a certain lifestyle which they simply intend to maintain, they're not into chasing the buck. I'm one of the lucky ones, I don't worry about work and money doesn't mean much to me, nowadays we work to live...not the other way around. I have wonderful clients and marvellous projects and I truly believe that's because we're a thousand times more relaxed about life and business than we ever were in the UK.

If I still had my English mentality head on Clair I'd be agreeing wholeheartedly with you, knowing now what I do, I'm afraid I don't....because you'll run into the same problems however far South you take your work.

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Chief - it just isn't like that in France...

Half the people you ask for a devis won't show up. The ones who do won't show up on the agreed date (even if you have written to them saying you will only be in France for 3 days etc.) The devis will take weeks to show up, then you start negotiating the date for the work to begin and end. It starts on the day it is supposed to end... if you are lucky.

Market forces don't seem to apply, pressure from foreigners is ignored. You may be OK if you know someone who knows the artisan and puts a word in for you, but otherwise it is wait and try to adapt to their timescale.

Recently we needed a chimney swept so that a woodburner could be installed. We made an appointment with the sweep for a week before the installation. He didn't show. We phoned, called at his place, spoke to his family on a daily basis - nothing. In the end the fitter had to go and look for him and bring him to our place before he could do the installation. This only merited a shrug.

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[quote user="chief"]what astounds me is that when talking about getting artisans, the constant inference that you are at their mercy, and they come when their ready. Not so. If someone wants to earn my m,oney, theyu come when i am ready to my schedule. If they cannot handle the buyer (me) being in control, i am happy that they don't have the work. I would never consider bullying a workman, and i won't consider being bullied by one either. Personally, i think when they see enough high value work heading south, they may start to wonder why, and act accordingly[/quote]

What area do you live in and how long have you had property in France as around me that attitude would ensure that you never get anything done by any artisans. As far as work from one customer "heading south" is concerned it would not bother them in the slightest as they are fully aware there is more than enough work for all the local artisans so they actually wont lose any work at all.

Its not that they done want to "earn money" but rather that there is plenty of work with customers who do not work on the "UK/US Customer is King" attitude.

I see it as basic law of supply and demand. Not enough supply to meet demand so the supplier holds all the cards. When the new Playstation Turbo comes out just before Christmas and the shops have fewer boxes than customers you can refuse to queue as "why should I wait in a queue if they want my money" - but they will sell all their boxes very quickly and you wont get one !

Ian

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i thinki some may be missing my point. My issue is that things never change if you allow the kind of attitudes that appear pervasive in France to persist. If someone cannot be bothered even responding to an email, or telephone call, even if only to say 'sod off i am too busy', then why are people here persisting with that particular artisan. Granted you will have to go to someone, but my point is that, eventually, manners will overcome. this supply and demand thing will eventually turn around, always does and always will. survivors in the marketplace are those who care about their customers. take for example UK banks. Not many different branches, captive customer base and yet plenty of people wiling to walk if the service isn't there. I accept things may be different in France, but when you here things like, use local artisans as it helps with the integration process, and yet those very same artisans that so readily expect your business by virtue of the fact you live round the corner, treat you like sh*t, seems strabge to me. As alluded somewher else in this thread (i think), i would rather pay a german gang to travel south and do it on time, at standard, to price, and with a smile...ish. If enough did that, i hazard French attitudes to paying customers might change
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Chief, I think you may have missed the point. Artisans are not seeking your business. When you have a hole in your roof and you need it fixed, waiting for French business practice to "turn-around", for the supply of skilled labour to overcome French bureaucracy and taxation to decide to start businesses, etc. will result in you needing a new roof many years ago. Artisans already have more than enough business. In fact they would probably appreciate a few foreigners refusing to use them as it will cause them less hassle given their already overfull order books. It wont change the system but just mean you are sitting in the cold and rain (no heating, no electricity and no roof - as you refuse to employ artisans who will not work in your required way).

Things may turn round, but a couple of foreigners declining to give their business to artisans who already have too much work will not change the system. There are other factors causing the supply and demand.

I don't like supermarkets (a few massive companies have far too much power over the supply chain). Local shops are never open and don't really sell much decent stuff anyway - so I'm going to stop buying food and not give any of them my business as "customer is king" and this will force them to change their business practice.

Chief, I'm sort of assuming that you are new to France or maybe not yet started trying to get work done as in many areas (certainly around me) you would still be waiting to have your electricity sorted and get some lights long after electricity was redundant !! If you are not yet at teh point of needing local artisans I would encourage you to take not of what people are saying as it might help you get works you want done, done.

Just saying it how I see it from how things seem to be round me.

Ian

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 Chief, I respect your opinion but I do wonder what your situation is? Are you living here or do you have a scond house here? If you practiced your written mentality in everyday life here you'd be 'blacklisted' amongst the community of Artisans that I'm involved with. I don't wish to burst any bubble you might have but it's just the way things work here.

Put quite simply, if you want a service you'll have to be very careful how you go about it, whatever you think about the rights or the wrongs of the equilibrium of supply vs demand. In my trade the average project isn't a few days of work, it's weeks of planning and execution and I simply could never service the work that comes through, however, I personally always contact everybody who contacts me and tell them the truth, yes I'm interested and will come out....no I'm not interested, I'm sorry... because that's how I'd like to be treated.

 

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Oh dear Kathie, I'm sorry to hear about your frustrations! Do you perhaps think the Dordogneshire artisans might just find your 'I've still got my Brit head on attitude' just the teeniest bit offputting? It might be the reason that you're advocating bringing in anybody and everybody (without thought to the consequences) to do some work for you?

 

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My 'Brit head' is very polite [:)] - but I'm (quite reasonably I think) concerned that my currently dangerous electrics may cause serious injury to the children in my family.  Q: do I 'be french' and fanny around - or just 'be British' find someone else more reliable to do the job.  And no I haven't resorted to dragging in any passing mutt to sort it out - I am proposing to use a qualified electrician - I just don't think that he has to be French!

Kathie

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