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Artisans daily rate charge


cyclebum
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Seeking sanctuary from another popular forum. Asked this same question and got pounced on by some folk who thought I was the successor to Hanibal lectur.

My English friend , a REGISTERED builder quoted me his 'cash' daily rate of £150 for work on my house. I could not afford his 'special' price to me. In fact I struggle to earn that per week working for a French company. I can only imagine his 'through the books' rate to be somewhat more. Am I being naive thinking this is expensive for France? Do French builders generally charge at least 220 Euros (£150) per day? My French collegues at work are all on similar low wages so therefore am wondering who can afford any work to be done if this rate is normal.

For £150 per day I would have at least expected legite gauranteed work. I will shop around but would like to know first if this sort of rate is not unreasonable.

Thanks in advance.

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I think you're right. For that rate you would expect legit work. Just had two quotes from macons. One quoted more than 30 euros per hour. The other didn't quote per hour but has come out much less. I've been told that 25 euros per hour is about right for a macon, which would seem to work out near your £150 per day figure. You have to shop around. The problem is getting them there in the first place.

Good luck.

Patrick

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Hello, When I calculated my hourly rate I did so by working out what it costs to invest/re-invest in equipement, assurances, publicity etc therefore knowing how much I need to recuperate before I even begin to allow for my wages, allowing myself just above the SMIC. As I am paid by any profit I make, I must allow for the amount that is taken in social charges.

I have no 'cash' rate, as if I need to obtain future finance I will require a healthy balance sheet to justify any loan. I was once a builders labourer and know just how 'little' investment is required to set up as such. Many machines may be hired for the job. However, a good tradesman may charge a premium rate, he may have invested in plant...

Take a man with a digger... he could have invested 6k in a trailer, 25k in a van and 40k in a machine. So he must charge say 50euros an hour to cover costs and earn a living.

 

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Oh, I forgot to add...

I am an Entretien espaces Verts (gardener) and charge 192euros minimum for 8 hours for works requiring small petrol or hand tools. For tractor work its anything from 36euros upwards.

At the end of the day, I had to buy the professional tools to do my job and they are not found in Mr Bricobananrama. In my experience there is always some-one cheaper and I generally  get around 90% of works quoted for so I believe that my price is competitive. 

A bit off thread, sorry! 

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i am registered for general renovations and after paying all my cotisations and insurances and paying for the upkeep of my vehicles and equipment etc find that if i charge 35 euro's (i do not normally work for an hourly rate) an hour i still do not have a lot left for myself . i have recently completed a large job decorating a french persons house for 7.000 euro and he showed me the quote he got from a french artisan for 10,900 euro for the same job.
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hi

      

Take a man with a digger... he could have invested 6k in a trailer, 25k in a van and 40k in a machine. So he must charge say 50euros an hour to cover costs and earn a living.

     it`s not worth putting the digger on the trailor for less than €125 plus €1 a km  delivery

                  dave

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Here in 29 we charge 30€/hour for a skilled artisan and 22-25€/hour for a labourer,semi-skilled person. These are the minimum rates that a small business must charge to survive the ever increasing social charges and are confirmed by CAPEB and ABG the largest gestion accountancy here for the building trades. Some people do charge more and get away with it,but no one will pay english wages here - the end results in patronal charges are suicide.
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I've often wondered why the French domestic building market is so busy when most people are on such low wages, but we see a lot of people having their house re-rendered and re-roofed when it's not really necessary, so there seems to be plenty of money around.

I can also sympathise with Boris as I find exactly the same. Social charges and taxes seem to spiral out of control after a couple of years making it virtually impossible to make a living.

I think anyone who thinks they're getting a deal by getting a builder to work on an hourly rate is mad. We quote a price for most of our work and 99 times out of 100 it's the client that benefits.

 

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Same as you Charles,the hourly rate I quoted was what the minimum is we have to charge as worked out in a feasability study to just survive here and only very occasionnally do we only charge for labour - too many very large renovation projects on the go which have to be done by price so the client knows what its going to cost him in the end. Like you, they nearly always come off better than us as certain materials can suddenly get hiked up during the renovation which you have no idea of the amount of any increase when doing estimates etc. Oh well perhaps we'll be millionaires next year - think not!
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Bannon, what do you mean by 'odd bit of?' Once registered there can be 'no odd bit' Cheque employee rates should be around the SMIC but really your rate must reflect the worth of your work as well as the investment in materials to do the work. 15euros for a man, old van and a mower is fair enough but then if you want to invest in better bigger newer machinery then you must up your rate accordingly in order to pay for it.

 

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Twenty odd years ago we expected to pay around £200 a day for an artisan and I would expect it to have gone up since.I really do not know how they can make much of a living if they charge much less what with all the social charges.

Do not understand about the Hannibal Lectur thing though, I know that wages can be lousy here, are often lousy here, but artisans don't earn a fortune either. Hence all the brico shops I suppose.

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  • 2 weeks later...
hi,i do the same thing as dave and olive and im amazed that they would contemplate taking a digger out for 150 euros,if you have any digging work get them now,a machine full of fuel will cost you that without a driver,you should up your rate dave thats to cheap
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Hello, its not clear if Welsh Dave charges this per hour or per day...

One of my French competitors charges 37.50euros per hour for cutting and strimming grass and this is close to what the C.C.I say I should be looking at.

I charge considerably more for urgent, difficult or more technical works and this balances the low rate for maintenance.

Off thread...

I'm on a French building site this week installing lawns. At lunch every-one goes to lunch and takes only the most casual of security measures regarding materials and tools. They where puzzled when I told my fellow contractors that in the U.K there are security fences, security men and dogs and no end to the measures that pikies, gypos and travellers will go too to walk off with the lot.

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Hello, I shall try to help...ha ha ha...

47euros per m2...

 What are the old joints filled with/how hard and how long to pick out...?

What is the replacement mortar...? Lime being far more expensive...

How small are the stones...?

If this is roughly a wall 16m long by 3m high made from schist and not requiring high staging then for one man I estimate the time to complete being 5/6 days.

One to one and half days to pick out soft 'old lime or clay mortar' not cement.

4/5 good days mixing material and making good the joints.

Based on actual experience when working as a builders labourer back in the 53rd state...

Now if I was a French Artisan who wished to earn a fair living then I would say your quote is about right.

I may be roundly dashed to the ground here and stamped upon but other than the cost of materials which may amount to 300 euros there is the cost of the business at around 40% then social charges at 48%....

940e in business costs, 677e in social charges, 300e in materials leaves around 433e in profit. 86euros per day in his pocket per day.

Thats a fair price for the work I think...

I am a very inexperienced businessman and crap at maths so please go get 2 other devis and trust not my words.

Why not do it yourself...? its really not very hard if you are able bodied enough and if you make a mistake you can always pick it out and start again! There is so little to go wrong and all the info is freely available. If you are near Dept.22 I am willing to show you how its done in exchange for a meal.

Good luck anyway.

 

 

 

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thats top doller,im doing my own now and im doing it properly so the place stays up for a while as well as looking good,have a look at some of there finished work,i think its a bit dear that,if they use a machine you dont get quite the same results and id expect that cheaper,you get what you pay for but only if you look first
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