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Engineering/Metalwork


Cliffnook2000
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Hello Everyone,

For the last 30 years I have been running my own, one man, sub contract engineering company here in the UK. Although my turnover is well below the requirements for VAT registration, I have chosen to be registered as my main customers are local businesses who, themselves, are registered.. I do anything from drilling a few holes to manufacturing large frameworks and everything in between as well as making gates/railings etc. for personal customers.

As soon as the right property becomes available in the Limousin region I will be loading all my gear onto a lorry and relocating to France.

I know that there are many books out there regarding running a business in France and I am sure that someone could recommend a good one. I just wonder whether this would be of any use to me. I do know how to run the business and to make sure all my paperwork and filing systems are up to scratch and to make sure that due taxes are paid at the right time. What I really need is a guide (preferably in English) as to the current regulations and requirements regarding setting up and running a one man business in France, together with any ongoing costs, taxes and liabilities. However, there is no substitute for personal experience and I am seeking advice from all of you who have gone down this road as to what to look out for and what pitfalls to avoid.  I notice that most of the businesses here are relating to builders, electricians, plumbers, joiners/carpenters etc who, obviously, work on customers premises. My business will be workshop/factory based but I assume the same rules apply.

I do appreciate it is not as simple as just transporting my equipment to France and just starting up where I left off.  I will obviously need to make sure I am allowed to do what I want to do in the location I want to be. Is this decision made locally or are there certain procedures I need to follow to get permission?If  "planning permission" is required then how long would this take?

Will there be any up front fees to pay and how will my initial taxe bills be calculated? Are there any incentives either locally or nationally for setting up a business?

I know the sytem in France is quite different to that in the UK but I need to know how different.

I realise my work load will be much diminished when I make the move and be almost non existent initially, but that doesn't bother me as it is my intention, now I have passed my 60th birthday, to start slowing down anyway.

There must be other people in France doing what I intend to do but I have not found any yet, certainly, there don't appear to be any on the Anglo/French websites such as French property news.  What do you do if you have any steelwork requirements and would the service I can offer be of any use? Do you  use a native French business or are there other UK business offering the same type of service?  That would be interesting to know.

Sorry this has been a bit long winded but I hope lots of you can give me constructive advice, even if it's only to say "don't do it".

Thanks all.... Frank

 

 

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Hello Frank, welcome to the Forum. I can't give you all the answers to your questions but would suggest you look into registering as a 'micro-entreprise' which will mean you don't have to keep accounts and you just declare your receipts at the end of the year. The downside to a micro-entreprise is there is a ceiling on your turnover of 27000 euros a year (if you are only providing a service and not selling a product as such). As a m-e you wouldn't be registered for TVA which means you don't charge TVA for your service. For a m-e they assume that your allowable expenses are 50% of your turnover so if, for example, you turn over 20000 euros you will only be taxed on 10000 (similarly you 'cotisations' or social charges are assessed on this figure). Once your establishe your cotisation works out at about 25% of your turnover but for the first two years you have to make a fixed payment which works out at between 400 to 600 euros a month for all start up businesses (except 'Societe' of course). I don't know how it works if you are over 60 as the normal Artisan retiring age is 60 at the moment. Also it might be worth looking at registering as a 'metier d'art' if you are doing mainly decorative stuff as this will reduce your cotisation a bit. First port of call is your 'Chambre de Metiers' where you will have to book yourself on a course before you can actually register (the 'stage' is available in English in some departments).

I'm sure others will be along soon to fill in the gaps, good luck with your plans.

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For what it's worth in the middle of a new build residential area of my village one guy (French) has built a workshop of perhaps 50sq m and is using it as a fab shop much as you describe. He has a lathe and mill in there etc. etc. and I've often seen welding going on. 

I have to assume it's all above board as it faces the open road and is only about 5m back and the big sliding doors are more often than not open so all can see whats in there and whats going on.

As for there being a market, almost certainly I would say but, as in UK, highly subject to location and there being anything like it in the area. Whether you could make it pay though is another question [8-)]

Good luck.

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Hello Charles and Ernie and thanks for the useful information.,

I have managed to find some more information on setting up a one man business in France and the various options available. Why can't it be as simple as it is in the UK !!!  Anyway the information is much as you say, Charles, but it doesn't mention about the cotisation. If I understand correctly I will be paying anything between 400/600 euros a month even if I am not earning a cent. That seems a bit steep. Can I claim anything back or an adjustment be made at the end of the year when my first accounts are ready?   Incidentally when we finally arrive, my partner will be 65 and I have worked long enough so that I qualify for the full UK pension already without paying any more in. I also have a personal pension plan which I can draw on any time after I am 60 (so now, effectively ,if I want)  Will this make any difference?

I am surprised, Ernie,  that someone would be allowed to run a fab shop in the middle of a residential developement, it certainly couldn't happen here in the UK. There is obviously a degree of noise with any metalworking business. I thought the best I could hope for was a workshop on the very edge of a village, precisely because of the noise problem, even though I don't intend to work excessive hours and rarely at weekends anyway.

Now that I am aware that these things can happen, it may give me more scope in my selection of location, although I do appreciate that it will still be down to the Maire as to whether I can do it or not. Of course I should have realised that the French do things very differently to us.

As for making a huge profit, that does not worry me. I love doing what I do and I will be just pleased if  I can pay my way. At least I will have my workshop to do anything I want for myself.

Thanks again guys....Frank

 

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Hi

My hubbie is a blacksmith, here in brittany, although he travels throughtout france.  He is busy (very) and as well as working for the english, he also works for french architechs.  All his work is hand forged, but its still near on impossible to run a profitable business because of the high cotisations and also the insurances you need, as he also sometimes welds on site. 

If you are looking to start up look into the travil independent - I don't know if its ok for this kind of work, but if you can do this it maybe better, if you are a micro you have to pay standard cotisations even if you have no work.

Best of luck

 

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Hi Kel,

Thanks for the feedback from someone who is at the sharp end of things.

I cannot find any info on Travail Independent but there seems to be a system called "Regime Reel", which is more like the UK system, where taxes and social security contributions are paid on actual net profits. It also seems under this sytem that losses can be carried over for up to 6 years. Also it appears that new businesses do not have to make a tax declaration in the first year.

Can anyone confirm whether this is so and that I have understood it correctly. Or, under this system, are cotisations still payable at a fixed rate but able to be adjusted after the first set of accounts.

All very confusing !!! I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth all the hassle !!! [:D]

Regards...... Frank

 

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