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Any advice/help buying a property in France


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Hi there, I wonder if anyone could help me -We are looking at buying a property near Limoges to use as a holiday home (not letting out). Could anyone give us any advice with this process i.e. setting up a french bank account. We are currently looking at the internet for properties but if we find one could do with some advice on the process. Thanks everyone. Regards Wendyb1066.
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Welcome Wendy

Two huge topics and you might find detailed advice using the search facility top right.

 

A few pointers:

Banking - is rarely free in France so expect to pay between 3 and 12€ per month for the priveledge of the bank looking after your money.

Most banks expect to interview you personly when you set up an account and they can ask for a huge range of documentation to prove who you are, where you get your money, where you live etc.. 

Many banks appear to be national but some are not and are regional franchises.  This makes life difficult because for example Credit Agricole in Marseille will not be able to help in anything if your account is in Limoges.  This is particularly relevant because CA in Normandy have set up "Britline" which is banking geared towards British customers and even allows some online application to take place.  Many people swear by Britline - others swear at it.  There are certainly some benefits of being able to do some things in English, but the regionalisation issue is a definite draw back.

My advice would be to find a bank close to where you will have your house, which will make life so much easier if you need the support of the counter services or manager.

 

Buying a house - the process is almost the reverse of what happens in the UK.

1.  A compromise de vente is signed at an early stage of the process - this should be considered like exchange of contracts in the UK and is binding within the limitations of what is written in the contract.

2.  You do not need a lawyer.   A Notaire will look after all of the legal registration (for you) and tax (for the seller) issues.  He is a goverment tax collector and so should be completely neutral and there is no problem with seller and buyer using the same notaire - indeeed it is the norm.  However there are no extra costs if you chose your own notaire, and if your French is not good then it makes sense to find an English speaking one.  The notaire will not however do detailed searches and will usually only advise you of anything if you specifically ask him.  So for example if you ask him about plans for a local wind farm he will tell you if there are any, but he may well not tell you about the new nuclear power station or the overhead power lines planned to run through your village.  You may therefore want to find a lawyer anyway - but most folk don't.

3.  Surveyors reports are rare and it can be hard to find a surveyor anyway, but they are out there if you have concerns about the state of a property.  For specific things (say cracks in walls) very often a local builder can give you an estimate for correcting the fault, and you can always use this as a bargaining chip with the seller - provided the Compromise has not been signed.  Work done by registered artisans will be guaranteed 10 years and in may respects this is a better level of safety than an engineers report, which will in any case be filled with get out phrases and clauses.

4.  As buyer, you will pay the estate agent fees in most cases.  Sometimes these will be wrapped up in the total sales price, sometimes it is a bill on top.

 

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When it comes to banks you want whatever is in the village closest to you - so it could be La Poste or something else. If you go with Credit Agricole you will find that there are ENglish speaking specialists based in Limoges who will come out to the local bank to talk about insurance etc (ie if you are buying something!) and are also available on the phone for more general queries. We have found them most helpful.

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Thanks for the advice Andy. Gosh it seems a minefield but if everyone else can succeed then there is no reason that we cant. I am just hoping that the language barrier doesnt become an issue. If you can help with anything else I need to know then would appreciate it if you let me know. Thanks again. Regards Wendy.
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[quote user="Wendyb1066"]Thanks for the advice Andy. Gosh it seems a minefield but if everyone else can succeed then there is no reason that we cant. I am just hoping that the language barrier doesnt become an issue. If you can help with anything else I need to know then would appreciate it if you let me know. Thanks again. Regards Wendy.[/quote]

It is a little more akin to buying a horse - check the teeth, temperament and ability to walk.. Then bid accordingly!

Seriously though, if you're no property surveyor or builder/'been there done that' type of person, get plenty of off the cuff advice first, then some professional quotes if you're feeling close to a suitable contender..

Don't be rushed, especially now, the market not great, and around Limousin/Limoges I'm not sure, but the area has traditionally been a little less expensive and possibly more vulnerable to market drops..

Just my 2 cents worth..

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I am not being grumpy but if I did this all again I would rent, certainly at the beginning to see if it was for me, and even permanently.

I have been stuck a couple of times with a property which I had to lose money on to get out of, whereas if I had been in rented accommodation I could have just given notice.

This is even more valid if you are not yet sure of how you will get on with the language etc..

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As I said in another thread just consider how much money you want to spend. Take the number of weeks you would visit and multiply by about 600 (alternatively take a look at gites on the web, find one you would consider staying in and use the average yearly price) then divide the amount of money your willing to spend by this figure. That will give you the number of years you could go on holiday in France. The money you would save by not paying the annual bills would pay for you getting there and back and you won't have any maintenance outgoings as that would be somebody else's problem.
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Crazyfrog, Norman,

 

The OP specifically said she was looking for a holiday home - the rent option is therefore not so relevant.

 

And yes, learn French is a must.  You might muddle though for a while - even a long while in some parts of France, but in the end there is no way round the inevitable.

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We bought our house in the Centre region 8 years ago and also had concerns over the language issues. However, we found a bi-lingual agent who was very good and we looked for agencies FNAIM registered. My main recommendation is to read everything you can on the property buying process; we bought books on buying properties in France, magazines and spoke to people who had bought properties and attended several French property exhibitions and spoke to all the professionals. As a result, when it came to the point where we had found the property we wanted, we felt very confident about the process and the questions we needed to ask BEFORE we signed the initial contract. We went to the Mairie and made our own enquiries and did not rely soley on the agent. We also ensured we had any suspensive clauses we wanted put in to the contract. The whole process went very smoothly! Happy searching!
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My twopenn'orth would be, find out exactly what the annual property taxes will add up to before committing to a property. In a lot of regions the taxes went up as-tro-nomically this year, so make sure you don't get misled by being shown 2010's figures. The level of taxes varies hugely from region to region and commune to commune, and there are no reductions for non-residents so you will have to pay all the taxes in full - foncière, habitation, TV licence, and rubbish collection if applicable in your chosen commune. Could be well over 1,000 euros a year, could be under, so this might be a factor in your decision.
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Do you have children still living at home? The type of place you'll want will be determined by them (and teenagers won't want to holiday in rural France every year).

For finding houses try to buy privately to save agents fees - look at Leboncoin, but I'd also say that renting in the same village each holiday would be the best to find out if it's for you.

Britline is good for banking if you aren't fluent in French. Most utility firms have English speaking lines so make a note of them.
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Perhaps I might have missed it in the other posts but no one has pointed out that the buyer will pay the Notaire fee who is collecting the taxes on behalf of the Government and then his bit for the paperwork.

The Notaires fee is a fixed rate of 7.5% on the purchase price.

It is NOT PART of the Agents fees which is usually lumped in the purchase price.

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My situation 

  • With 10 years to retirement I found myself with a spare £175,000 burning a hole in my pocket.

 What I did

  • I used most of the money to purchase a lovely house in France and have spent the rest getting it how I want it.
  • I spend £2-3k per year on taxes and maintenance 
  • I work during my holidays, decorating, gardening or general maintenance.
  • I have spent every spare holiday moment there.  We have not been anywhere else for 3 years
  • My extended family book most of the summer period and have a succession of free holidays.

 What I should have done 

  • Purchased a second house in UK in my wife’s name (to use up her tax allowances)
  • Rent it out for around £1,000 per month.
  • Spend the income on any holidays I want.

 Don’t get me wrong – I love my French house and I enjoy being there, but it is not a sensible economic decision.

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Strongly recommend you open a Britline account. I doubt we could have purchased our property without transfers to this account. It is a bit of a Pfaff getting certain docs from e.g. U.K Barclays account but, once obtained, signed and sent to Britline ( Credit Agricole based in Caen) everything has gone very smoothly since. Easy to contact English Britline staff either by email or phone to increase limits on card/ cash withdrawal, etc.

Added bonus.....just paid for hotel,etc in Portugal in euros by Britline card........ no transaction charges/rip-off exchange rates , etc as would be the case using U.K. debit/credit card!

By the way, do not DREAM of transferring cash from U.K. Sterling account to euros in Britline account via one of the Big 4 banks... you will get 2-4 % more euros if you use Moneycorp or similar company.

Re: buying! Many pitfalls and do NOT sign the binding Compromis de vente until all points arising from the Dossier have been addressed ( all sellers have to provide all sorts of info in this dossier )..............in our case this took 6 months !!.............. even then the Notaire did not mention ( some dispute as to whether it is his responsibility or not ) that we cross private land to enter our property!

Prepare for the roller-coaster, learn French and, if in ANY doubt, get stuff translated.

Good luck
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  • 2 weeks later...
I would endorse other posters in advising that you rent before you buy, as French rural house prices will probably be lower in two years time than they are now, as many French property experts think we are only half way through a six year downward correction in rural French property values.

There is no doubt that British buyers in particular drove up house prices in rural areas like the Limoussin, as this is not an area that generally finds favour with French second home owners. Also with the weak £, banks restricting lending and the general poor economic enviroment, there are more sellers than buyers at the moment, properties can take years to sell and with property buying and selling costs being considerably higher than the UK, you probably need to make a 20% gain just to break even.

If you are looking at buying a property in France as an investment, don't. But if you are looking at it from a personal pleasure perspective, fine!
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  • 1 month later...
Hello there,

We just finishing our holiday house in Brittany. We had 2 options. Renovation is one of our favourite so we looked on the solicitors' sites on internet. We went in holidays and looked too. I am French so it is easy for us and I know well that part of Brittany.

Where to look:

The solicitors sites were our choice are they are serious people . Plus the people selling with their solicitors will do the contract with them, easy way for us. We did not go to sign we gave our right to the solicitor  to sign for us. The papers were send, we checked them... that is very important mistakes can be made.

 

 The solicitors selling properties are not pushy and answer questions, nothing to hide. They generally speak a bit of English and no problem for them to send you via the net some infos and even if you ask  for the  plan de masse of the house. Because sometimes the way the picture is taken .. that does not match with the description.

You can discuss the prices with them too as some of the clients...think they are sitting on gold... and solicitors can talk to their sellers.. you do not find a buyer so easily these days.

Take care of old farms... very often they were already shared into plots.. and you can end up with a public path in the middle of your yard.. noway your can close your property in that case. .  and the neighbours are right to your back.

remember in France you are the one who chooses, checks everything... if there is a future project for a big road, rubbish tip, rotten wood in the house..

ask questions about sewers.. septic tank, that is the rule in countryside in France. That is another cost to the house and where can you fit it?

If you want to extend check with the mairie, 'le plan d'occupation des sols', what is possible or not.

Listed buildings are nightmares....

Check if there is water next to you by looking around in gardens, fields, talk with neighbour... avoid theses situations.

Check if there is any right for neighbour to pass on your land or if you have to do it to access your property. (droit de passage)

 As you will be not there all the times people will take advantage of it and it is matter for argument between neighbours in the future and to sell back French people do not like that.

If it is cheap.. or for a very long time on the market,look out there is a trap or something wrong around it....

One good thing to do if you choose something is to ask an architect, they are underneath 'architect D.P.L.G' or ask 'l'ordre des architectes' to indicate one to you. The guy comes with you to visit and you talk technical stuff with him, he checks and will give you an idea of price and what can be done or not and he can advise on different apsects as he will know the region, the place,

Our second option was  a lock-and-go so for the same budget we built a new house full of caracters with a constructor.

That was easy for us I am French and an architect. The compagny we choose let

me draw my project and built it for us. So far so good we should have

it this month.. if  the electricity  is connected. I

Buying it is no so difficult, but you need to be able to speak a bit of French to check contracts. You need to understand the way France works, electricity contractor, taxe man, all the taxes to be paid. The solicitors are a very good option for foreigner, trusty people.

Banking:

for banking we took in our region Credit Agricole. The English one... they are good, speak English, we do transaction through the computer. No problem. The one we have is in Caen but you will find where you are, so many englishmen already there.

One thing, take care of your credit card as in France you loose it, the machine eats it... you pay for a new one.

 You pay for a lot of things with french banks. Manage your account from internet.. that is free.. house is the double of taxe for the community where the house is.

When you have your place you are aware you are going to pay taxes over there. That will be your second house so you are going to pay more than the normal resident. Nothing to see with your nationality, secondary house are more expensive to run than a main one.

The French taxe man is a business man always pay before, or on time if not you will pay a sanction. the best way is to register on line and direct debit.

Here some ideas.. it is bit hard in the beginning but you will learn to know the French and their ways to do things.... my husband who is englih says why do i have to pay that??? it is because it is like that in France and that is it!

That worth the effort and in a couple it is a new project, full of excitement .. and difficulties to do together.  cheers. Nathalie

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Hello there,

We just finishing our holiday house in Brittany. We had 2 options. Renovation is one of our favourite so we looked on the solicitors' sites on internet. We went in holidays and looked too. I am French so it is easy for us and I know well that part of Brittany.

Where to look:

The solicitors sites were our choice are they are serious people . Plus the people selling with their solicitors will do the contract with them, easy way for us. We did not go to sign we gave our right to the solicitor  to sign for us. The papers were send, we checked them... that is very important mistakes can be made.

 

 The solicitors selling properties are not pushy and answer questions, nothing to hide. They generally speak a bit of English and no problem for them to send you via the net some infos and even if you ask  for the  plan de masse of the house. Because sometimes the way the picture is taken .. that does not match with the description.

You can discuss the prices with them too as some of the clients...think they are sitting on gold... and solicitors can talk to their sellers.. you do not find a buyer so easily these days.

Take care of old farms... very often they were already shared into plots.. and you can end up with a public path in the middle of your yard.. noway your can close your property in that case. .  and the neighbours are right to your back.

remember in France you are the one who chooses, checks everything... if there is a future project for a big road, rubbish tip, rotten wood in the house..

ask questions about sewers.. septic tank, that is the rule in countryside in France. That is another cost to the house and where can you fit it?

If you want to extend check with the mairie, 'le plan d'occupation des sols', what is possible or not.

Listed buildings are nightmares....

Check if there is water next to you by looking around in gardens, fields, talk with neighbour... avoid theses situations.

Check if there is any right for neighbour to pass on your land or if you have to do it to access your property. (droit de passage)

 As you will be not there all the times people will take advantage of it and it is matter for argument between neighbours in the future and to sell back French people do not like that.

If it is cheap.. or for a very long time on the market,look out there is a trap or something wrong around it....

One good thing to do if you choose something is to ask an architect, they are underneath 'architect D.P.L.G' or ask 'l'ordre des architectes' to indicate one to you. The guy comes with you to visit and you talk technical stuff with him, he checks and will give you an idea of price and what can be done or not and he can advise on different apsects as he will know the region, the place,

Our second option was  a lock-and-go so for the same budget we built a new house full of caracters with a constructor.

That was easy for us I am French and an architect. The compagny we choose let

me draw my project and built it for us. So far so good we should have

it this month.. if  the electricity  is connected. I

Buying it is no so difficult, but you need to be able to speak a bit of French to check contracts. You need to understand the way France works, electricity contractor, taxe man, all the taxes to be paid. The solicitors are a very good option for foreigner, trusty people.

Banking:

for banking we took in our region Credit Agricole. The English one... they are good, speak English, we do transaction through the computer. No problem. The one we have is in Caen but you will find where you are, so many englishmen already there.

One thing, take care of your credit card as in France you loose it, the machine eats it... you pay for a new one.

 You pay for a lot of things with french banks. Manage your account from internet.. that is free.. house is the double of taxe for the community where the house is.

When you have your place you are aware you are going to pay taxes over there. That will be your second house so you are going to pay more than the normal resident. Nothing to see with your nationality, secondary house are more expensive to run than a main one.

The French taxe man is a business man always pay before, or on time if not you will pay a sanction. the best way is to register on line and direct debit.

Here some ideas.. it is bit hard in the beginning but you will learn to know the French and their ways to do things.... my husband who is englih says why do i have to pay that??? it is because it is like that in France and that is it!

That worth the effort and in a couple it is a new project, full of excitement .. and difficulties to do together.  cheers. Nathalie

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Excellent advice Nathalie (especially the bit about that's the way it is in France - it's no use complaining about taxes etc, all that gets you is ulcers!)

We're just starting with a building project, but are still at the bargaining stage with a few constructors.

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" If you offer the full price on a house then that is legally binding"

The only legally binding part of offering a full asking price is that the vendor has to pay the estate agent the full fee if they back out. But even then it is invariably contested in court and can involve 'greedy' estate agents pursuing poor vendors who made a 'mistake'. The buyer gets nothing.

On the subject of whether or not to buy. I would also add the fact that the perilous state of EU fiscal finances means that governments will be looking for more and more ways of collecting tax. They have already increased Capital Gains Tax for second properties, and I imagine there will be more tax traps to follow. Tread carefully, and think about possible tax pitfalls. The French would love to tax foreign ownership i'm sure.
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