Decking treatment

[Fmn]

My husband has just put down some decking round part of the pool - really well I'm proud to say!! But I'm wondering what I should do now.  It's pine, but obviously been treated.  I'm happy to have it the rather bleached out colour that it is but would appreciate knowing whether I should be putting something on it.  And if so, what?

Thanks

Fran www.gasconyretreat.com

[Poolguy]

I regret to say that I think that you have chosen poorly for the decking for your pool.

I am presuming that you went to the Brico and purchase the green treated pine because it was cheaper than imported tropical hardwood. Well in my opinion you've wasted your money.

The reason for my harsh words is that the treated pine contains Copper Chromium Arsenic (CCA) a treatment which has been around for ages but is now banned in many countries including the USA. Its especially nasty around pools.

The reason is that when you get in a out of pools covering your deck with water it leeches out because of the aggressive nature of pool water. Traces of the CCA find there way into your pool and eventually build up to a level where they make people sick especially young children and those very sensitive.

I cannot imagine why this is still available in France and why it does not carry a warning that it should never be used next to a pool. It a bad idea.

What to do about it now that you've done it. I don't know, but if it were my pool I'd rip it up and start again with tropical hardwood. I am sure that will come as unwelcome advice just as the rest of this post is. Practically I guess that you might get something to seal it but look carefully at the ingredience. You already have a toxic cocktail you don't want to make a whole meal of it.

I posted on this topic several times but it still happens.

Andrew

 

[Teamedup]

I posted about the CCA some considerable time ago, it is bad stuff. I had hoped that it wasn't being sold in France anymore.  If yours has it then personally I would consider getting rid of it too.

[Punch]

I don't think it is legal in France to sell it anymore. Even Brico Depot state that all their treated pine autoclave is class three and sans chrome et sans arsenic. My professional suppliers certainly don't sell the dodgy stuff.

So whilst I agree wholehartedly that it is a good idea to bring attention to this, I do think that it is wrong to assume that Frans husband is going to make his children sick with decking that (may) be perfectly ok.

Personally I would only ever use a hardwood deck around a pool

 

Paul

 

[Fmn]

Ok.  Might as well know the worst  We bought it from Point P and in the catalogue it says Traite autoclave classe IV.  Good news or bad?

Fran

[Poolguy]

Does it specifically state that the treatment excludes, Copper, chromium and arsenic?

Autoclave means nothing other than its been heat treated to open the pours of the timber to accept more chemical.

Class system ???? Who on earth knows what that might mean. Sounds like a comfort thing. There is no such thing as a little bit toxic.

I'm sorry that no one is offering positive news but the product is genuinely really bad. Its as much as a warning to let you know the truth rather than 'she'll be right'.

An later if there are incidence of stomach problems in people using the pool you might be able to find the cause a bit easier.

Poolguy

[andyh4]

Poolguy,

I think you have maybe gotten the wrong end of the stick.

An autoclave is a pressure vessel and is not necessarily heated (but often is).  It is designed to take the timber, is put under vacuum to suck out all of the air and quite a bit of moisture.  The timber is then immersed in the preservative (English not French!) and put under pressure, which forces the material deep into the wood.  In theory no heat is needed but it would not surprise me if heat is not used as well to speed up the process as you say - judging by the banana shaped bits of CR*P often found on the brico shelves.

The class system shows the degree to which the wood has been treated - from class 1 - basically kept dry in use through to class 5 - for partial or permenant immersion in sea water.

Class 4 seems to be suitable for applications around a pool area - general use where the humidity is likely to be above 20%.

 

With repect to two of the nasties you mention Arsenic and Chromium - both should be banned from this sort of wood product from this month according to the EU directive of 2003.  However there can be no guarantee that what has been installed is not old stock from somewhere.

Copper is however still allowed and widely used - it is however much less toxic - and before someone says there is no such thing as less toxic - yes there is.  Copper is an essential element for life of mammals and plants.  However just like alcohol and sun - too much can be injurous to health.

[Poolguy]

Thanks for that Andy

I certainly knew of the treatment regime for CCA having worked in the industry for 12 years. I've always referred to the process as vacuum/heat treatment as nearly all of the practitioners I have had dealings with use both to make the process faster.

There are Autoclave ovens in use in many industries which do not use vacuum, hence my comment. But this is not useful to the poster who probably doesn't care about the difference.

All of the element in CCA are naturally occurring in fact, there is trace elements of arsenic in our gardens and therefore sometimes in the water. Its the concentration which becomes scary. the same with Chromium and Copper. 

In fact some of the pool clarification systems use copper and silver electrodes to sterilise the water - the E-clear system for example. Both of these are naturally occurring but you do not want even 1 ppm in the water. This system is banned in many Countries.

I worry about this situation because there no way of telling their concentration easily without getting a expensive and sophisticated lab test. And there is no way of stopping its increase if the source is next to the pool. As you say Class 4 for semi submersible applications - not in my back yard (NIMBY).

My comments were perhaps a little flippant I guess but I don't want to bring too much serious lowbrow to this thread which is already pretty bad news for some.

Thanks again for your clarification and elaboration.

Poolguy

[Macker]

Somebody better tell Big Brother.....

[Fmn]

I've just had an e-mail back from Point P who have confirmed that the pine decking is suitable for use around pools and conforms to European normes and that it does not contain arsenic.

That'll do for me

Fran

www.gasconyretreat.com