Jump to content

Opening your Pool


Poolguy
 Share

Recommended Posts

The Weather

has started to turn and so minds may begin to turn to opening up the Pool for the

Season.

 

Here are a few

ideas that may be of interest to those who are unsure about what to do with their

pool, whether you have uncovered a green monster or its just cloudy and mucky

delinquent.

 

There are 5

things you’ll need to look through to get the pool back into pristine condition.

 

  1. There is firstly, getting the much

    out – use a net to get most of big leaves and debris out, even if you can’t

    see the bottom its better than trying to vac it as it will just clog the

    system. Remember that vacs are really only meant to pick up dirt. So go round

    with a net and get as much as you can out, only after that yshould you employ

    the trusty vac.
  2. Water balance- start with total

    alkalinity, you’ll need 80 or more PPM, if its low then add Bi carb soda (for

    example a 10x 5 pool with a starting TA of 20 will need about 15 kg of Bi carb

    to get it up to 80ppm). Then go to pH, for if you have adjusted the TA then

    you pH will be skyrocketing. Using pH minus bring it down again to 7.2.

    Check the cyanuruc acid level, that should be no more than 50ppm, if you

    have more then you’ll need to add fresh water to dilute the concentration till

    it is with levels. Then you’ll need to Choc the pool for the first time, I

    recommend that you use Eau de Javel for this treatment (sodium hypochloride),

    its concentrated chlorine in liquid form and it will disperse quickly without

    altering the other balance. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ANTIALGAE unless

    it is a biological antialgae, as the former are poisons which are copper

    based and very hard to get rid of. Then Filter for 2-3 days constantly, backwashing

    every day.
  3. Circulation – look at your filter

    and pump and calculate if you have enough. Think about the struggle you may

    have had last year and see if it is worth upgrading them. Find out the

    capacity of your pump and filter and divide it into the volume of the pool

    and the answer should be somewhere around 3 hours to circulate the whole

    pool. Typically in France, installers would use 5-6 hours or on rare occasions

    I have seen 4 hours and even 8 hours. If you want clean water then you will

    need 3 hours.
  4. Filtration – it might be time to

    change the sand in your filter. If it’s been there for 3 years or more

    then its over due for a change. I recommend that you replace it with zeolite,

    which gives you 40 times better filtration (40 micron versus 1 micron). It’s

    not expensive and will make a huge difference to the operation of your pool

    and the health of your family. It last for 5 years or more and you only back

    wash every 2 weeks instead of every week.
  5. Clean the waterline, margells

    and terrace – again avoid any products containing peroxide or ammonia, use

    a biological cleaning agent as it is sure that what ever you will use will

    end up in the pool. For the margells and terrace, I use the CHOCed pool water

    (10ppm) and a scrubbing brush, it works well. Algea, lichens and fungus have

    their own product combatants, but make sure to use them sparingly and not

    into the pool water.

 

Hence if

there are any questions about any of these ideas then by all means send me an email

or PM and I’ll do my best to respond. However the season is beginning and hence

I am not often in the office so please be patient and I will get to everyone eventually.

 

Many thanks

to all for the patronage last season and I look forward to a busy 2007 season. Bon

Nagè

 

Andrew
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good gracious, I've been getting it wrong all these years. All I do is take off the cover (used to be a heavyweight winter cover, now I've got a bar reinforced one to meet the legal regs), remove the anti frost floats ( weighted plastic bottles held in place on lengths of cord) and net out the few leaves that have found their way in - if the cover fits, why should there be many? Then I put the drain plugs back in the pump and filter and get the circulation going.

Normally the pool will be clean after one pass with the vacuum, sometimes I might have to do it a second time. I check the salt concentration level, which may need  some added, though it generally doesn't, check the pH and adjust if necessary. After that I enjoy swimming as soon as it's warm enough.

I'd never realised I needed all these intensive, and doubtless expensive, checks. But then, I've never lowered the pool level in the winter or added any of the expensive winterisation chemicals. As I've only had the pool for thirteen years, perhaps something nasty is waiting for me. It used to be more difficult before I changed to salt electrolysis in 2000, but since then, child's play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My comments in this thread are directed mainly to those

people who are interested in exemplary water quality in their pool. To achieve

that it is necessary to verify and control the dimensions of the water

chemistry.

 

There are of course other methods of managing a pool

and if they suit the owner and users then by all means continue.

However, I would say that these ideas apply equally to pools with almost any

sanitization system: As you all know I favour Liquid Chlorine Direct as the

most advanced method of sterilizing the water, but there is also Solid chlor

tabs, salt/chlor electrolysis, ozonators, UV treatment, peroxide, bromine/chlor

and a host of others on the market today. (Only the first two meet with

Department of Health (DDASS) approval specifically with respect to 'public

pools'). Moreover, these have little to do with filtration, circulation and

vacuum cleaning which was the main thrust of my comments earlier.

I am offering these ideas not to discredit pool owners who are happy with their

pool management regime but to help new owners, prospective owners or those who

are searching to improve their water quality to exemplary standard. This

standard is impossible to determine by a visual check, and must be analysed with

the relevant testers, which I list below.

Free Chlorine/pH test kit -    Local Brico about 5 euro, I

prefer the better ones which are about 9 euro (must be DPD1 & phenol red

tabs in a blister pack- avoid the liquid reagents)

Cyanuric acid -    about 20 euro

Total alkalinity - about 20 euro

Eau de Javel - about 25 euro for 20 litres @ 9.6% concentration - Brico's et al

bi carb soda - about 30 euro for 20 kgs

There are more sophisticated testers called photometers which will make these tests

easier but they are a bit dearer.

In all, using base chemicals you should be able to run your pool for a year

with all the testers and raw chemicals for between 100-200 euro, If you are

spending more than that you should have a look at why because I do not think

that it need be so.

I do not advocate using any Flocculants (they’re plastic and a waste of money),

antialgea (I already mentioned why), Winterising solution (benzilammoniate- you

never want that sort of stuff in your water). You should even check the

contents of the tabs  (gallettes) you buy form your brico or marche as

they are not always the same.

The overriding thought here is that each owner must find what is right for them

and keep with it if it works. I have had many conversations with people who are

interested in exemplary water quality and when they visit this subjectthey usually

find it easy to understand and adopt - because it is easy. But each pool owner

needs to understand a little of water chemistry, and what follows what and what

reacts with what. It may seem a lot at first but with practical trial and error

on your pool it will come and the rewards are fine indeed.

Good luck to all

Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andrew you really are the Pool Doctor, your contribution to this section of the forum is priceless,I am very suprised Living France have not pounced on you to contribute in the magazine as there are so many pool owners in France now,I would always come to you before anyone,thankyou for your excellent posts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Poolguy

 

Thanks for your informed comments , I find them very interesting.We had a pool installed 3 years ago at our holiday home and because I can only get there late June/early July the water in the pool is usually very green and takes about a week before the quality is anything like.

I waste about a third of the water after cleaning the sides and then top up with clean water before applying the  choc treatment.

I have used antialgae previously but will try Javel , how much should I use for 75 cubic metres?

The filter is diamantes and I only add the slurry after the water is reletively clean.

I don't add anything to the water when I winterise the pool , usually mid September ( a little early I know ) but again because of commitments back in the UK.

I will be there at Easter for 2 weeks . Is there anything that I could be doing then that may help the situation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="verviale"]Andrew you really are the Pool Doctor, your

contribution to this section of the forum is priceless,I am very

suprised Living France have not pounced on you to contribute in the

magazine as there are so many pool owners in France now,I would always

come to you before anyone,thankyou for your excellent posts.[/quote]

Thanks for that Verviale

I gladdened that my contribution is appreciated.

I have been talking to the Magazine Editor about some editorial.

Because I want to talk as well to those Brits in France who do not use

the net or Forums but also have pools. I hope that they give the idea

as much support as they have indicated.

There are some specific topics which need to be aired in larger prose and pics which would suite the magazine rather than here.

I will also be launching in a months time "Poolguy's Pure Water Mark"

for Gites owners. Its sort an assurance to the Gite buying public that

the pool they will swim in is the best it can be. I hope that its a

help to those people who have invested in clean water and improvements

to the pool when they are making a business out of it. I have spoken to

a lot of the Gite staying public and they all seem to respond

positively to the idea.

But I am still in the process of writing it.

So, I'll help anyone with questions so long as I have the time to do so.

Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have bought the magazine every month for the last fifteen years and the coverage on swimming pools is poor, suprising with all the new regs of late, I only recall a couple of articles on poolbuild and managment in those years, so yes it would be great to see some coverage on this subject, there are always new products and new ways of doing things, heavens, things have really moved on since I had my first pool many years ago,so lets hope they use your expertise.Sometimes I really get confused with all the different products on offer and I am sure lots of us have made big mistakes one way and another, it is so easy and expensive.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Poolguy may sneer at those of us who don't want to live in a chemical laboratory, but there are many pools worldwide that use salt water electrolysis and they can't all be wrong. I used to go through all the pain of throwing money, sorry, chlorine products, into my pool and having it turn green if I turned my back for a couple of days. Since changing to salt I have had a pool with sparkling water that Poolguy would undoubtedly say is heaving with germs, but it's a risk I'm willing to take, and I wouldn't be letting my grandchildren swim in it if I wasn't confident of it's healthy state. To my mind the fact that, when I take off the winter cover, the water is clean, not green, speaks volumes.

Incidentally, how many new municipal pools use chlorine?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Tylden"]Well, Poolguy may sneer at those of us who don't want to live in a chemical laboratory,

[/quote]

Sorry, but where is Andrew 'sneering' ? I think he was remarkably restrained in his response to your guilded attempt at sarcasm.

Unless you are in some way involved in saltwater pools of course.[:)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Tylden"]Well, Poolguy may sneer at those of us who don't want to live in a chemical laboratory, but there are many pools worldwide that use salt water electrolysis and they can't all be wrong. I used to go through all the pain of throwing money, sorry, chlorine products, into my pool and having it turn green if I turned my back for a couple of days. Since changing to salt I have had a pool with sparkling water that Poolguy would undoubtedly say is heaving with germs, but it's a risk I'm willing to take, and I wouldn't be letting my grandchildren swim in it if I wasn't confident of it's healthy state. To my mind the fact that, when I take off the winter cover, the water is clean, not green, speaks volumes.

Incidentally, how many new municipal pools use chlorine?
[/quote]

Mmmm ...... sad you don't actually read Poolguy's advice.  He is there to help the novice with the basics and the amateur with any probs they may have.  Give the guy a break - Yes he has a business but that does not distract from the sound advice.  A friend of mine has recently binned salt for chlorine because he wasn't happy with the results - not because he wanted to have a snipe at salt systems.

lighten up or you may negate the effects of a glass or 2 of the vino.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I agree with those who post in 'Poolguy's' favour, . One question- Quantities per 1000ltr would help. 

    1. Water balance- start with you pH will be skyrocketing. Using pH minus bring it down again to 7.2. Check the cyanuruc acid level, that should be no more than 50ppm, if you have more then you’ll need to add fresh water to dilute the concentration till it is with levels. Then you’ll need to Choc the pool for the first time, I recommend that you use "Eau de Javel" for this treatment (sodium hypochloride), its concentrated chlorine in liquid form and it will disperse quickly without altering the other balance. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE ANTIALGAE unless it is a biological antialgae, as the former are poisons which are copper based and very hard to get rid of. Then Filter for 2-3 days constantly, backwashing every day.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Barkham"]Well, Poolguy may sneer at those of us who don't want to live in a chemical laboratory, but there are many pools worldwide that use salt water electrolysis and they can't all be wrong. I used to go through all the pain of throwing money, sorry, chlorine products, into my pool and having it turn green if I turned my back for a couple of days. Since changing to salt I have had a pool with sparkling water that Poolguy would undoubtedly say is heaving with germs, but it's a risk I'm willing to take, and I wouldn't be letting my grandchildren swim in it if I wasn't confident of it's healthy state. To my mind the fact that, when I take off the winter cover, the water is clean, not green, speaks volumes.

Incidentally, how many new municipal pools use chlorine?
[/quote]

"Chlorine may be generated on site, such as in saltwater pools. This type of system generates chlorine by electrolysis of dissolved salt (NaCl) using an electrical cell in the pool plumbing, instead of manually dosing the pool with chlorinating chemicals." (Wikipedia)

So you don't swim in a chemical compound?

I just swim in a pool that is governed by the automatic chlor/PH computer. It keeps the levels correct and safe and it checks them every 3 minutes! At the end of the season I had to make some adjustments to the water chemistry because the TA was too low, the cyanuric acid was too low and algea was forming because the chlor was dissapating too quickly when the pump stopped. Since then I have had to wind back the floating cover a couple of times to net out some leaves that had fallen in and blown in past the sides of the cover. But the chemistry has stayed steady and the water is crystal clear with no more green round the edges.

A load of the credit goes to Poolguy. Good luck with your salt pool, but don't ever think that you are swimming without the aid of chlor!!!!!

Bromine also uses chlor and the only system that is in common use that doesn't is UV light and that doesn't kill the algea in your pool, it only kills the algea in the water that passes through your filter. So it won't stop green on your pool surfaces, only the algea that is loose and floating in the water. We all know that the stuff on the walls is NOT floating, don't we?

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that all new public pools in France had to have and auto chlor/PH system. The same with the U.S. and Aus. I stand to be corrected if that is not the case...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Barkham, you are a lucky guy, I have had a salt water system since 2004, and if I knew then what I know now I would not bother with salt at all. I have had lots of problems. When I can afford it, the I am going to get one of the direct injection chlorine systems.

Also, I can only commend PoolGuy's input on this forum and advice he has given me, yes he is in business, but he does know what he is talking about, unlike a lot of us novice pool owners, who he is trying to help, although I know a lot more now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll support Barkham here - I've had a salt pool for a few years now and it is superb.  I have an abri and I can see that right now my water is crystal clear even though it has been closed since November.

And, I fully understand the chemistry of the pool [;-)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thanks to all those who contributed to the discussion.

To set the records straight, 'Public swimming pools" (commercial) as well

as Municipal are controlled by the DDASS who oblige Pool managers to use either

Liquid chlorine injection or solid chlor tabs provided that they are monitored

every hour in the case of a heavy use facility such as a camping ground. The pH

is controlled by the usual Sodium bisulphate (pH moins) or equally effective is

Hydrochloric acid, sulphuric acid (my preference) or carbon dioxide gas. There

is no provision or norm what so ever for use of salt electrolysis in a commercial

installation. Where such a system exists prior to control by the DDASS, I am

aware of at least one case where a pragmatic approach was take and the Manager

is permitted to continue. However, I am advise by Officers in Several

Departments that if that pool was in their jurisdiction the Pool manager would

be obliged to either change system immediately or close his pool for use by the

public. This is the same state of affairs in Australia and the US.

For the benefit of my detractors, I have stated here and on many occasions

previously, that if you are happy with your pool management regime then stay

with it.

I try to employ the best available science to be helpful to those who are

trying to make informed choices. I try in all cases to make informed comments

from the best research available and a concomitance of the trends world wide,

which in exemplar counties such as Australia are against practice of introducing

salt into the Potable water environment. This is not just a matter of personal

preference anymore as much of Australia faces catastrophic water shortages. In

this light, it is incomprehensible to fathom the logic of turning 75,000 liters

(or more) of potable water into saline, to support a more expensive technology,

which has been superseded 15 years ago. To the contrary, the emerging

technologies are trying to combine elements of such as UV or Ozone along with

minimum chlorine injection, and in the other lane the total biological approach

to maintain purer water.

And again I can also reiterate that the purpose of this thread is a discussion

for all types of systems what are the issues and processes involved in opening

your pool – not just systems of disinfectant. So if you already know how to do

that then we can offer you nothing new on this occasion, then I hope that we

can be of some help at another time or on another subject.

 

Once again my thanks to those who have posted questions.

 

How mach Javel is enough to choc a pool? Well in a 10 x 5, I

have been known to use a whole 20 litre drum (9.6%) as I wanted 10PPM to clean up

a particularly nasty situation. If its not so bad, maybe half that. Good idea

to dilute it 50: 50 before adding, and pour it in away from the liner to avoid repercussions

on the liner.

 

Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Poolguy"]

How mach Javel is enough to choc a pool? Well in a 10 x 5, I have been known to use a whole 20 litre drum (9.6%) as I wanted 10PPM to clean up a particularly nasty situation. If its not so bad, maybe half that. Good idea to dilute it 50: 50 before adding, and pour it in away from the liner to avoid repercussions on the liner.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Andrew


[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Andrew.[B]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
[quote user="Poolguy"]

How mach Javel is enough to choc a pool? Well in a 10 x 5, I have been known to use a whole 20 litre drum (9.6%) as I wanted 10PPM to clean up a particularly nasty situation. If its not so bad, maybe half that. Good idea to dilute it 50: 50 before adding, and pour it in away from the liner to avoid repercussions on the liner.

[/quote]

Hello Andrew

I had a pool installed last summer, and the manufacturer states that to keep the warranty valid for the liner, I must use their chemicals - they are non-chlorine based (apparently), and my question is, does chlorine affect liners and if so, at what strength would the ppm have to be to do such damage (fading I guess?)?

Jamie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Poolguy"]Incredible???????[/quote]

Exactly my thought; un-reputable installers will tell us amateurs this. Why? To there benefit, we buy their expensive products at an inflated rate as we are so (green) in the world of pool maintainence. Thanks to 'poolguy'  we now know better.[B]

Apero

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...