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Salt system - Is it working?


suzi05
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Is there any way to test whether my salt system is working or not? Mt pool hasn't been right since last year - I've had all sorts of green / brown / yucky problems with it. I left it "au nature" over the winter (just keeping the filter running a few hours a day) as usual. This year I came to open it up, got a man to come around and check the filtration system (he found a few leaks and fixed them). It seems to be filtering brilliantly. I hoovered and chocked - lovely.... but it still isn't right. Straight after I chock it it is fine, but then the algae comes back again. It seems to me that the salt system isn't doing anything (as in releasing Cl) How can I tell? Should I be able to measure the Cl produced in the pool using DPD tablets? I've just tried that and the test remained clear and colourless.

The pool is about 3.5 years old and has an Alliance Sel system if that makes any difference. The salt level is fine - topped up and tested a couple of months ago.

My husband has taken apart the electrolysis chamber and given it all a bit of a scrub out (which didn't make any difference) and noticed that there seem to be burn marks on teh top of the bit with the electrodes in. He thinks that this happened once when the pool water level dropped when we were away. Could it have burnt out in some way? He also reckons that we used to be able to see bubbles streaming from the electrodes but we can't now.

I know it's probably hard for anyone to tell us without seeing it but any help would be gratefully received - I know that some of you out there don't like salt systems but please don't all post to tell me that they're rubbish - we're stuck with this one now!!

Also - Stabilisant. What is it? How do I test it and where do I get it from if I need to add it?

Thanks

suzi

www.patiras.com/trinite.htm

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is ph 7.2-7.4?if not adjust as this can interfere with chlorine test.

re-check salt level.

add some javel say 0.5 litre -how big is your pool in volume?add up to 1.0 litre spreading it around perimeter after diluting in 5 litres water to kick start pool.

recheck chlorine  level.

what is water temp. as if less than 15 centigrade the electrolysis of salt will not start.what area are you living in and is pool near trees/

keep water circulating 24hours for at least 3 days and recheck chlorine as javel will give a reading but eventualy this will be used up, so keep electrolysis running 24 hours as well.

the electrodes can be cleaned by immersing in 10percent hydrochloric acid in my equipment,do you have makers instuctions?

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Thanks Ab & flsteveuk!

The pH was a little bit high - around 7.5 so I reduced it before adding the chock tablets yesterday. I have re-checked the salt, that's fine. The pool is 10x5m so volume is 75m3. The water temp is pretty warm, around 20 I think. We're in the Gironde and the pool isn't near any trees but there is an enormous passion flower plant along the wall next to it so we get some of those leaves in the skimmers. It's been on 24hour filtering for ages now.

I do have the intructions for the salt system which don't help at all.  They do say that there is a "defaut" light that comes on if something is wrong (eg furred up electrodes or low salt) but this light doesn't even come on if I unplug one of the electrodes......

I put the salt in the pool along the side like they did when they installed the pool

Is there no way of testing the electrolysis??

suzi

www.patiras.com/trinite.htm

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So the salt has traveled the system. My system is the same, no real indication it's working, and easily affected by other conditions. One "engineer" that looked at our pool checked for bubbles off the electrodes after he back washed, muttered something, then said "yes, is ok".

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Suzi

When we first got the house I was checking levels, readings and mixes daily, then my French neighbour said "why, once a week, or look at it". I am more chilled about it now, and have got used to seeing that it's harder to keep right, so then check the CL, Christophe still laughs, he has the same pool and set up, and he just "tips in 50kgs of salt in once every six months". His pool is always spotless!!

Ah W.C such an aoposite quote for French living!!

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[quote user="suzi05"]

Also - Stabilisant. What is it? How do I test it and where do I get it from if I need to add it?

Thanks

suzi

www.patiras.com/trinite.htm

[/quote]

Salt from your pool supplier probably has stabiliser in it, but will cost you 20 euros +.

Forget it, and use water softener salt from your local Brico at about 7 euros, and don't worry about stabiliser & don't worry about testing for it.

The beauty of the salt water system is simplicity.

I forgot to ask in my previous post; Have you got a winter cover?

Peter

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I have never smelt or tasted chlorine from our pool, and we always use the bags of salt from Brico, but it has to be catering qauilty (maybe in case I want to heat it and add carrots! Our control box must be quite old, it has a anologue gauge, which invariably shows off zero by 1/4 of the total sweep, it has an adjustment control, but we have never tweaked it. How long do the electrodes normally last?

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Quite Often I find myself at odds with some advice given here.

In this case, regarding the role and importance of stabilizer (cyanuric acid) I cannot agree with the above poster.

Cyanuric acid (C3H3N3O3) is

a very useful and essential part of your pool chemistry for its role is

slow down the decomposition of the chlorine by UV light amonst other

things. So you could call it a sunscreen for Chlorine which in a salt

electolysis pool is more important than in a chlorine direct pool.

The reason for this is that a salt electrolysier can only make a finite

amount of chlorine from the salt (sodium chloride) you put in the

water, whether its 10mlg, 15mlg, 18mlg or more that is all it can do

(and that depends on everything working perfectly). So if your chlorine

demand is high as is the case in hot weather, and with many prople in

the pool then you will need all af the chlorine you can get. Now if you

have inadequate Cyanuric acid in the water then the UV will be

consuming your chlorine as well as the contaminants so your result is

worse than its should be. It is therefore essential that you maintain a

level of 50ppm of cyanuric acid in your water to hold the chlorine

there so that it can do its job. If you get too much then its just as

bad as the chlorine will all be 'blocked'. Hence it is a good idea to

test your levels every now and then the make sure its correct (it can

be diluted by excessive rain). By doing that and adjusting then you

avoid the inevidable green, brown and black water that will eventuate

if you have it wrong. You can buy a tester but most shops havn't heard

of them so PM me if you want more details.

The same requirements exisit for a chlorine direct pool, whether you are using gallets or Javel.

As regards the Original posters problem of the apparatus working or

not. It sound to me that the plate have suffered some damage from

either being run without a full tube of water or they have just burnt

out their useful life. In either case their output of chlorine will be

negligable and so they will have to be changed which will cost between

400-800 euro depending on the output specification anf if they are

reverse polarity or not. One test you might do before you rush of and

part with wads of hard cash to get another one is to clean the unit by

emersing it in neat acid for a few minutes, be very careful with this

and wear the appropriate protective clothing and eyewear. You should

see some hisssing and bubling and the electrodes will emerge very

clean. Then reposition them into their tube and run the system for 2

days for so continuously to see if it makes any chlorine. If it doesn't

then its on the Fritz and for the poubelle.

I have to say that I dissagree with the notion that salt systems are

'keeping it simple'. Water chemistry is not that simple and it doesn't

change just because you put salt into the water. If you are content to

swim in the water which is managed by this system then so be it. But be

aware that the purpose of dissinfectant is to sterilise the water and a

visual chack is not sufficient to determine if it is or is not sterile.

Reliable testing is the only way to ensure that your health and more

imporantly that of other bathers is not at risk. This must be coupled

with an understanding of what you are testing and why your are testing

(what is means). That is what I am trying to do here, make a difference

and displet all the absolute nonsence peddled by people who have not a

clue, and that includes a vast number of Pisciniers in France.

I hope that this reply has been helpful and clear, if you need more help then please PM me.

Andrew

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Thanks everyone for your replies.

The box does have a digital readout that always says 120% but that's not a measurement of the Cl production (I don't think).

I have never added stabilisant - can you buy it with normal pool supplies?

Which acid should I use to clean the plates poolguy? And where can I buy it? I have had a quote for new electrodes - about 500€ - the pool is only 3 years old!!! So in desperation as green stuff seems to be growing on the bottom of my pool I have switched off the salt system and added "gallets" of chlorine to my skimmers. presumably I should be able to see CL is present in the pool using the DPD test now?? I tried yesterday about an hour after I added the tablets - nothing, but maybe it hadn't had time to spread out?? If the salt system is working effectively should I be able to detect CL in the main pool using DPD tablets? 

Sorry to be completely dense but it all seems fairly mysterious to me and I don't want to kill off any guests!!

suzi

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I tend to agree with Poolguy.  A salt system is only a method of creating Chlorine in the pool.  It is still a pool with Chlorine.  We have just been through the process of either a salt pool or a chlorine pool with auto-doser, changing our minds three time until we settled on a chlorine doser system which automatically checks Chorine and pH and adds the necessary doses through little pumps.

I was at the house last weekend to check the pool after it had been completed 3 weeks earlier.  Apart from needing a clean from a few leaves etc it was sparkling. 

We are down again in a week's time so will give a further update then.

  

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[quote user="suzi05"]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

The box does have a digital readout that always says 120% but that's not a measurement of the Cl production (I don't think).

I have never added stabilisant - can you buy it with normal pool supplies?

Which acid should I use to clean the plates poolguy? And where can I

buy it? I have had a quote for new electrodes - about 500€ - the pool

is only 3 years old!!! So in desperation as green stuff seems to be

growing on the bottom of my pool I have switched off the salt system

and added "gallets" of chlorine to my skimmers. presumably I should be

able to see CL is present in the pool using the DPD test now?? I tried

yesterday about an hour after I added the tablets - nothing, but maybe

it hadn't had time to spread out?? If the salt system is working

effectively should I be able to detect CL in the main pool using DPD

tablets? 

Sorry to be completely dense but it all seems fairly mysterious to me and I don't want to kill off any guests!!

suzi

[/quote]

Suzi

Don't be afraid to ask if you do not know, as this is the only way you will learn how to control your pool chemistry.

If you can email me with the size of your pool, how many and what

gallets you put in and what the reading is on the pH and DPD1 tests

then I can tell you what to do next.

I have some suspicions that there is more to this water than what we have learned so far.

The acid you need to clean the plate is ordinary hydrochloric acid

(37%) available in any brico, wear protective clothing and especially

eyeand hand protection, do not have you face over the bottle when you

open it as this acid fummes and the its a nasty hit in the face when

you get a wiff. Find a tall cylinder the same size as the clear housing

and fill 1/3 with acid, emerse plates and let it fizzzz for a bit then

out and back into its houseing. If it doesn't produce any chlorineafter

that then it is fried and for the poubelle.

To test your pool for response buy a 20 litre container or Javel

(9.6%), dilute it in a bucket and toss into the centre of the pool (all

of it)while circulating. Pool should turn blue(not necessary clear) in

2 hours or so. If not you have greater problems and so you will need to

PM me a book a rescue.

Andrew

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