Salt water pool

[Poolguy]

Yes guys - you got me.

Its Friday 18TH at Olympia in London till Sun 20TH

Takes a while to get over the shock of how cold it is.... no wonder I have to look twice to see what day it is.

See you there.

Andrew

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="Poolguy"]

Yes guys - you got me.

Its Friday 18TH at Olympia in London till Sun 20TH

Takes a while to get over the shock of how cold it is.... no wonder I have to look twice to see what day it is.

See you there.

Andrew

[/quote]

I wondered what you were going to say there mate. It's not the shock of the cold, more like the shock of no 'stubbies' or 'tinnies' peut etra? Plus, you won't see me there, it's cold enough here and it's not so wet either!!

Good luck, knock-em-dead-kido!

P.S. I will be chasing for my manifold in the not too distant future, pretty please [:D][:D]...

[Susie]

Re: SALT v "normal...." whatever that means...

I prefer to swim in salt water pools as then I don't get asthma. I understand that salt converts into chlorine but that's the way it is for me. Even when the chlorine level is at the minimum I will still get asthma, but not so with a salt water pool. And I do agree that there's no 'bleachy' smell afterwards, plus my hairdresser always notices if I've been in a chlorinated pool - she says it rots the hair! We're having a salt pool installed in April so I'll have more info then on the maintenance, but I hope it's simple!  [:D]

[Poolguy]

OH MY GOD  

BREAKING NEWS

Hair dressers are now being made to pass exams in water chemistry in order to qualify for their trade.

What next!!!!!

However, someone has  neglected to mention that a pool which is

chlorinated by electrolising salt runs at about the same level of

Chlorine (1.5ppm)as a pool operated by any other method (must have

slept in when that lecture was on). So they must be some kinda genius

to tell the diffence. (I am certainly impressed an in future will take

all my pool water samples to my local coiffure for analysis)

OH PANIC

'CHLORINE ROTS HAIR'

(thinks! HMMmmm that could explain a lot)

I'm going to rush out right now and test this new theory, I'll put a

lock of my hair into neat 12.9%concentrate of sodium hypochloride and

see. Let you know how it gets on.

Of course this cannot be compared and there is no mention yet of the

hydrogen peroxide commonly used by hairdressers on hair which is more

than 10 times more agressive than humble old chlorine. Perhaps there

might be some confusion there.

Its incredible and you heard it here first folks... stay tuned for an update.

This is Poolguy reporting outside the hairdressers (with my pol water sample..... let me in, let me in..)

Back to you in the news room.

[Susie]

well there must be something in it or how could she tell where I'd been swimming without me saying a word? My hair was certainly drier and breaking off when I swam in chrorine pools... maybe it has something to do with the way the chlorine level goes up and down whilst with the salt method it's regular and balanced??? I guess as you're the poolguy you know best, so waddya say about the asthma point I made?  :)

[pouyade]

I guess the issue here as ever is the LEVEL of chlor. Too much could reek havoc with hair; I guess that other hair treatments (perms/colour) will influence the extent of its impact. My daughter is asthmatic and has indeed reported wheeziness after using some chlorine pools in the past - but these have also always been poorly managed, manually fed/ checked and also led to ear aches/ red eyes etc. She has also had probems with a bromine (?bromide) pool, and has never used a pool chlorinated through salt. To me that is not an argument for or against salt or chlorine, but an argument for a properly regulated and cleansed pool. Salt based methodologies can also produce an imbalanced pool and chemical levels in traditional chlorine pools need not fluctuate. Pools need managing!

Pouyade

[Graham & Brenda]

Had a salt water pool for 4 seasons. No problems at all. Easy to maintain. Pleasant to use. Would choose one again. Very satisfied - and no I don't sell them or have an axe to grind. I get a bit annoyed at some of the strong "anti" views sometimes though as they are so contrary to our experience.

[Poolguy]

pouyade is right.

From the point of view of personal reaction, it does not matter what the method of sanitisation is in use as much as it dose the maintenance of the regime.

What I have always maintained is that the safe levels for swimming for pool chemistry are.

Chlorine concentration      1.5ppm- 2ppm

pH                                       7.2 - 7.4

Cyanuric acid                     30-50ppm

Total Alkalinity                     80-100ppm

Total Dissolved Solids         400-1500ppm

Calcium Hardness               90 - 300ppm

These are the correct figures and levels for the dynamic parameters which are to be maintained.

Now as a result of several clients enquiries regarding skin sensitivities, allergies, and breathing difficulties I have sort advice from Dermatologists who agree that if these level are maintained then there will be NO adverse reaction from their patients swimming.

If these levels are not maintained then it doesn't mater what system you have, then you will feel some effects from the water. The reason that salt systems are so out of favour is that often, when there is a high bather load, then the system cannot make enough chlorine and therefore has either to run all night, or a supplement of fast acting CHlor Choc put in to compensate. That is not difficult but there is a tendency not to test, and not to compensate – in this way it is in no way automatic in comparison to a chlor direct system which injects liquid chlor on a 3 minute cycle and test continually.

But these words are not of any comfort I know, and its impossible to prove that they are true until you have yourself swum in a pool that is controlled Automatically. There are many in France now and quit a lot amongst Forum members , some who also suffer as you do with breathing difficulties. But I say again, if a salt electrolyser can maintain these level above it will be fine. If not then it will trouble you just the same. In short you need to test, test and test again.

 

Andrew

 

 

[Jonzjob]

As far as I can see it chlor is chlor is chlor! No matter how it is derived it is still the same chemical. Or am I missing the point? The only reason that I can see that salt can eas anything is beacuse it is salt. Absolutly NOTHING to do with chlor.

But why do I ask myself d the authorities ban salt systems from public use? Is it because it is not controlable enough to handle different bather rates, is it because it damages the envioroment when it is discharged over a period of time or are they just being bloody minded?

Some where in the mist of history on this forum it has been mentioned that salt does not stay in the ground where it has been discharged. From that I ask myself that if that is the case then how do you get sea salt on your table in a nice little jar. It is because the sea water (quite salty) is let into pools where it is allowed to evaporate and leave the salt behind. Where ever the salt water goes that is dichharged from salt pools and it must be discharged sometime, it will carry the salt and it will leave it in the soil. OK if it's not very strong then one discharge won't make much difference you say. That's a bit like saying that if my dog has a poo in a park then it's only one and it will go un-noticed? If it were only one it might not, but!!!

I would also like to point out 'again' that if your eyes are stinging and you can smell 'chlor' then you are smelling the lack of chlor not excess and what you can smell is chlorimine which is caused by the chlor combining with amonia and because of the level being too low there is not enough to do the job of sanitising your pool, it's all tied up. If that is the case then put more chlor in, not try to reduce it further...

As for chemicals and your hair. I don't even use shampoo on mine and that has been the case for over 18 years. my hair does not break up in our auto chlor pool and, by the way, it's clean and more normal that people who do use shampoo because it has ALL of the natural oils in it (duck John!!!!!) That's all recorded on another thread..

So if you are happy with your salt poo then good luck, but mind where you are ditching the water from it. Someone in authority may just be watching you? Not me, I couldn't care less as long as it does not effect me.

Sorry if some of the spelling is off, but it's been a long day for a poor old retired sod like me!

[TWINKLE]

Hello lovely poor old retired ***!  How are you? 

[Wilko]

PG

Are there any instruments that can measure all 6 levels in the chemistry and if so what would you recommend ?

We have a salt water pool, very happy with it.

Cheers Wilko

[Poolguy]

Yes its available.

The Photometer I recommend is called the Scuba + and it will measure /

Total Chlorine

Free Chlorine      

pH

Cyanuric acid

Total Alkylinity

Bromine ( not essentially useful)

If you have problems indicating Calcium hardness, or Total Dissolved Solids then you should be able to get analysis from your pool professional - this would only be necessary on an occassional basis.

PM or email me is you want more details.

 

Andrew

 

[Susie]

Jonzob says "I would also like to point out 'again' that if your eyes are stinging and you can smell 'chlor' then you are smelling the lack of chlor not excess and what you can smell is chlorimine which is caused by the chlor combining with amonia and because of the level being too low there is not enough to do the job of sanitising your pool, it's all tied up. If that is the case then put more chlor in, not try to reduce it further..."  I must say that I've always noticed that it's usually the public swimming pools that stink of chlorine and make your eyes sting; they say it's from putting loads in and private health clubs the smell is a lot better and they say it's because they use less!!!!??? ... and anyway, chlorine still gives me asthma and salt doesn't...hey ho...

[Poolguy]

Susie

It must be evident to at this point that there are a lot of people out there, some who own pools and even some work for pool owners who haven’t a clue how a pool operates.

You just cannot believe what everyone tells you, so I urge you to do your own research using scientifically respectable sources. For the likes of hairdressers, neighbours, even they(or is it them), cannot be relied upon to give you good advice on the operation of water chemistry. The system to manipulate these parameters (mentioned earlier) is quite simple but the chemical laws behind the relationships are not, and certainly beyond the scope of 'common knowledge'.

So, its clear that your mind is made up and will listen to no dissention no matter how clear it is. But if there is the slightest doubt in your mind that what you think you know is not absolutely correct and perhaps you have been offered here some good advice, then I urge you to do some research yourself and find out. Use Google or buy a good book - one of the respected titles (there is a lot of rubbish out there). For if you are to enjoy the experience of owning a pool then you should at least be able to manage it, and that is impossible unless you now how it works. A Pool is a big investment and if you spend your money based on bad advice then it can cost a lot more to change you mind later when things are not going the way you expected.

This forum is full of owners from all parts of France both with lots of experience and new to the game. Its a good place to start, but unless you are willing to listen to the advice given, then its of no use to you. Pool builders by and large are pushing an agenda - amounting to the equipment they want to sell, that stands to reason. Choosing which one of them to believe is down to you and what you find out. Everything I hqve said you can view in more detail on my website.

So I guess that we have not helped you on this occasion. I hope that one day you might revisit this section and give us all the benefit of your experiences, the choices you made and the hindsight thereof. That is how we all learn.

Andrew

If you want to find more information on the real differences between Salt and fresh water pools then visit my website www.poolguy.fr then select 'Knowledge base' and then ' Salty of fresh'.  TTFN