JUST CHLOR Chlorinators How long should they last?

[JJ]

Greetings to you all, I have a JUST-CHLOR 100 standard salt water chlorinator.It was installed in the summer of 2004, so now in its fourth year.

Ever since I have owned it it has been temperamental, I clean the electrode regularly with acid, but cannot get it to produce enough free chlorine, so am having to supplement with galletes or eau de javel.

I have heard that the electrodes have a short life span.

Has anyone out there got one of these machines, and if so have you had any similar problems.

Many thanks.

[Goo_Rat]

Hi

I have been using a salt water for about the same time and find it fine, but my unit is undersized for the pool, and in hot weather have to either have it running longer or add extra chlorine (usually chocs as it also adds extra stabiliser if needed)

How big is your pool?your unit is designed for 60,000ltrs

Have you tested your salt level? I use the aquacheck dip strips. Your unit should have a min of 6,000 ppm.

Can you get the output to an indicated 90% to 100%?

Electrodes can last up to 8 years, depending on the quality of the plating of the electrode. Cleaning them in too concentrated a solution of acid can kill them very quickly (1 to 10 dilution is about right). Running the unit without enough salt also kills them quite quickly. ONLY CLEAN YOUR ELECTRODE IF IT LOOKS CRUSTED UP.

Electrodes are very expensive in France, but can be sourced and shipped from Australia (where salt pools are very commonplace and may manufactures are based). Prices are about half what you pay in France including shipping.

Hope that helps

[JJ]

David,

Thanks for all that info, very helpful.

My pool is 85m3 which is 85000 litres??

I test my salt level every day when I do all my other checks, I have a digital tester, very good, which show the salt level is at about 5800ppm. So I perhaps need a bit more salt? It has 4 settings, on max I get between 75% and 100% production, but it normally gives out a reading of 75%, so it does seem to be struggling.

I may have already damaged the electrode as I have been cleaning in in undiluted Hydrchloric Acid.

I may look at Austalia for a new electrode if I need one.

Many thanks.

[Goo_Rat]

Hi JJ

Your unit is about 30% under capacity, so it will struggle in the hot months.

Instead of changing the electrode you could replace the unit with one of the right size for about 500 euros shipped.

 

[JJ]

David,

Once again, thanks for the advice re capacity. I am also aware that my pump and filter are undersized, which does not help.

I might buy a new salt unit, or might throw the towel in and go for an automatic liquid chlorine system!!!!

Cheers.

Jim.

 

[myles]

hello. Just read your email on justchlor electrodes. Have had mine for 3 years but I think I have burnt mine out by descaling with a much too acidic solution. I can't seem to find an aussie manufacturer or reseller. Any suggestions? Does it go by a different name?Any help would be greatly appreciated. Could you answer me directly to my email. Thanks Myles Jessel

Contact details removed by the moderators. Please do not post your personal details on the message boards.

[The Ps]

Different branded manufacturers will all have their own suggestions for salt ppm.   Look at you manuals and for advice on the control box.  

[Taylops]

This reply may be a bit late (found your post while looking for Justchlor information for a pals pool) but here are my thoughtsfrom my experience maintaining multiple pools in France.

 

Firstly, most pool related products in France are an absolute rip-off. Generally items are 25% more expensive than the equivalent in UK even though items in the UK are much more expensive than the USA and Australia. I have purchased many items from these two countries and in some cases have saved 50% even after paying duty, VAT and shipping!

 

As far as salt chlorinators are concerned, my advise would be to go for the best possible unit, which in my experience is the Zodiac Clearwater LM series. While more expensive than many other models they are VERY reliable, give top-quality performance and cells last considerably longer than most others makes. They are also very easy to fit and set up.

 

For ease of use, go for the self-cleaning model sized to suit the pool (add minimum 20% to the calculated size of the pool to ensure the cell is not running flat-out).

 

One advantage of the Clearwater unit (compared to the Justchlor) is that it operates on 4000ppm salt content as opposed to 6000ppm which apart from saving on salt requirements also lowers potential corrosion and “salt taste” in the pool.

 

The LM3-40 (the largest model) will suffice for pools up to 160,000 litres and can be purchased in the USA for around $880. Shipping (USPS) is around $110 and expect to pay between 60 to 100 Euros in duty/VAT. This compares very favourably with the 1500 to 2000 Euros the same unit sells for in France. Obviously smaller models (I use the LM3-24 - good for pools to 70,000 litres) are cheaper to purchase.

 

The ONLY difference between the USA model and the model sold in France is the lack of a built-in timer (which is redundant if you have a pump timer on the pool).

 

Hope this helps!

[The Ps]

I appreciate this is getting off subject slightly but it cannot go unchallanged about the rip off comment as it does not present a balanced view.   There are some things in France that are cheaper and there is a lot of stuff than can be more expensive.   That's life.

What is missing from the above is a lack of appreciation of the fact that a lot of pool supplies are brought in by retailers who have to do the following: -

• Pay the import duties & other taxes

• Pay for shipping

• Buy in bulk which is a risk by reducing cash flow (look at the stock in your local pool shop)

• Hold that money in stock instead of a bank account

• Pay for insurances & public liabilities

• Put money aside for warranty work (difficult to get with a US/UK/Australian product - they may offer it but try and get them to honour it when you are in France)

• Pay for training to meet regulations

• Pay for marketing

• Comply with the law on the shipment, storage and handling of chemicals - becoming more expensive

• Ensure all staff are sufficiently trained to respond FREE to clients

• Earn enough to pay their own taxes and cotisations.

• Add TVA at a higher rate than the UK VAT which maks a difference on large cost items.

• Pay for premises which when you are a business, is expensive because of French law on business premises.  

I guess I could go on but I really don't want to be seen as aggresive in this, I just want to tell it how it is.   When you take into account all of the above, there really are not huge margins to be had.   I would really love to work under the rules in the US and Australia.   For a start I would employ more people even though it would cost to train them.   And they would still be protected by my moral duty to them so there would be no hiring and firing in a typically US way where they are governed by 'at will' contracts,  unless they really, really deserved it having done all you can to help them.

You also need to make sure especially on chemicals that you are comparing like for like.   There are many  brands of chlorine on the market and they are not all the same for a whole host of reasons, for example, with some galets you are getting fillers which don't need to be there.

 

[Poolguy]

You all know my thoughts on Salt Chlorinators so I will not repeat that here to cloud the discussion.

I wanted to add another issue to the list which the P's wrote ( the majority of which I agree with) is that if you purchase any product over the net from another county then you will also have bought:

• absolutely no consumer protection (you do not know what you are buying)
• no warrantee ( despite what the brochure claims)
• no backup service,

and you are likely to end up spending more money than you saved if you need the unit fixed in France ( should there be a fault)

Not to mention that if you do not support local companies then you will not have any local companies to help when you need it.

If you think that the price for pool products is high in France then take up the issue with Messers Sarkozy et al as it is they that have caused it.

Our margins are modest and we work very hard for our salary, as you can see from other Pool professionals who have responded.

Andrew

[Taylops]

Wow...... I never thought my response would result in such a energetic response!

As readers will appreciate the individuals who responded are obviously in the pool installation/support business and therefore have a vested interest in pool products sold locally.

I stand by my earlier comments - a mark up of around a hundred percent, even given the added costs outlined by the responders, is to me excessive. Given the fact that I can purchase a Clearwater LM3-40 unit in the USA and Australia, pay postage and import duty and still only pay around 50% of the local price, I cannot see the the mark-up is justified. This is also taking the retail price - professional individuals would pay the wholesale price which is considerably lower.

So, the choice is up to the individual. If you are experienced enough to self-support your pool, are willing to take the chance that the unit will not fail in the first year (or are able to fix it if it does) and have the time to organise the purchase and shipping, you can have a good chlorinator for much less than the local price. If you are not willing to put in the time and the chance that the unit may fail put you off then purchase a unit locally!

In my view you are doing nothing unethical and, so long as it is a personal import (as opposed to importing products for re-sale), you are doing nothing illegal. It now really is a global market and in my view the quicker we stop the regional pricing strategies we currently operate under (look at European, USA, and Far East pricing of DVDs as an example) the better.

So, the choice is yours.............

[The Ps]

I think that Andrew and I would also stand by our comments and I think you miss the point of what we are saying.   I can't help feeling also (and it is not unnatural to do so from your comments) that you may not be entirely legitimate in your services and not have the right accreditations and registrations and possibly do some work on the black.   It is interesting also that you claim to have looked after a number of pools yet are new to this site in offering your help and experience.   And although I am nowhere near as long standing as Andrew (just look at the amount of free help and advise he has offered people), I am happy to help where I can and without obligation (bizarre for someone with a vested interest).   If you have been around for a while and are qualified to do so, then please share your experiences with others.   Don't critisise those that give their time to help others without reward.   Of course, if people choose to check out our websites and pursue purchases on goods or services through us then great..........if they don't, it doesn't matter.   It is good to help people.

I think also that we play no part in controlling or adding to the illegal process of price fixing.   Indeed, if such a thing exists then we are victims of it.   I for one, would love to be the beneficiary of global policies but then to have that you would need to fix the price on a global basis - and then what stops the suppliers from forcing prices up.   It is sometimes infuriating that a product we may offer is cheaper in the UK than here but there are different costs in operating in the UK (I also have a pool installation company in the UK).   So although there are differing prices between the UK and France, we are all governed by the same legislation on trade within the EU, which does not allow regional pricing strategies.

It is a fact that some things are cheaper in France and some things are cheaper eslewhere.   I do not have an issue with people buying from elsewhere as long as people understand that it potnetially has an impact here on them personally and others professionally.   But by no means are we or most good pool suppliers trying to rip people off.

[Taylops]

I feel I must post a (last) reply to the last posting by "Ps".

I do not offer any pool related services in France (legitimate or otherwise). The experience I have gained is from many years of owning pools in the Middle East and like you helping friends in France who have had various problems or just require general assistance. Many have found that they would like an independant view on advice they have have been given locally or have come across problems they are unable to resolve themselves.

As for "critisising those that give their time to help others without reward", I can hardly see that my postings have done this. My original post merely pointed out that many pool related products in France are over-priced when compared to identical items in other parts of the world. If it is the use of the term "rip-off" that gives this impression, it was not directed at local suppliers but at agents and producers who vary their supply rates with a view to what a particular market can tolerate.

My views on this subject are similar to crossing the Channel to buy wine (for personal consumption....!) or driving into Spain to obtain cheaper fuel which I am sure most people have no problem with.

In any case, this string seems to have moved a considerable distance from the original subject of chlorinator problems so it is probably a prudent time to terminate this subject.

[The Ps]

[quote user="Taylops"]

This reply may be a bit late (found your post while looking for Justchlor information for a pals pool) but here are my thoughtsfrom my experience maintaining multiple pools in France.

 [/quote]

 

You didn't type this then?

 

I'm done.

[Poolguy]

Tayops

Thank you for your clarification.

For I would feel particularly aggrieved should you feel that we who work extremely hard, long hours for our business, our customers and also provide this place for advice gratis are in any way want of such avarice.

I too am not at all happy with the 100% rise in the price of fuel in the last 18 months, certainly an unjustifiable position. Similar to the 55% rise in the price of bread in the last 6 months, and 62% rise in the price of milk in the same period. The big producers whose Keynesian management practices are taking unfair advantage of the buying public are controlling the world economy. As far as the pool industry is concerned, these forces have had their effect and there are some products, which are unreasonably expensive (peroxide for example). But the cost of doing business are also high -so far as yet I have no customers in my own village, but rather most are between 1 hour and 12 hours drive away. I too am at the mercy of the out of control cost of living and as such we  'make a living' but no more than that. I would hope that you would allow us that with some grace.

Is conceivable that your comments were a 'knee jerk' and not meant to be either directed or hurtful to those of us in this position, but I (for one) regret the inferences, as they do not allow us to escape without the same tarring as the 'Agents' you accuse of unfair profiteering. If you have un understanding of Economics then you will appreciate that market forces will balance out any monopolistic style, or price fixing trends as they always do in an unregulated economies so your complaint as a consumer should be balanced amongst what else goes on in this world.

Any consumer can for example buy a swimming pool for €15k, and they can also buy the same size swimming pool €45k. The difference is in the quality, the functionality, the backup service, and the longevity. What is disturbing to me is the view by many consumers that the former should also conform to the same performance as the latter. Logic and common sense would present the view that it does not but there is not a lot of that about it seems.

Another example

A Hyundai 4X4 cost €20k and a Porsche Cayenne 4X4 cost €150k they do the same job but would you also criticize the Porsche importer for the 7 fold difference.

Suffice it to say that its not that I seek the last word but there are outstanding issues contained in the matter that I wished to exercise. You have signed off from this issue not wanting to enflame the debate which is wise, but as you have undoubted knowledge about the pool business and the world market generally perhaps you would consider also contributing your experience in a positive way providing direction and alternatives to pool owners who then have the most of all possible choices. We will all benefit from that, but they will not arrive if any of us continue to wax adversarial. It’s certainly not my style, and certainly not overly welcomed by the Forum community, I suspect.

A comment without prejudice,

 

Andrew