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Sun Tan Oil on Liner


Tillac
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Hi, have read all the posts but still have a big problem with a yellow/orange sun tan mark at the water line.I have added HTH clear pool emzynes liquid which does clear the surface grime off the water but it is still clinging to the sides.

Has any one found a realy good  water line cleaner as the one i use isnt great. Am running the pump for 10 hours to try and filter more, still no joy.

Has anyone found a better solution.

Thanks

Paul

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Yes

A few of my clients have recently experienced the same problem with Yellow deposits from tanning lotion and its really hard to shift with our biodegradable cleaner. So we are running some tests to find out what this new breed of non-soluble tanning lotion is  and how to shift it without destroying water quality - as its really a menace.  Yellow lines... yuk

Stay with us and we'll be back on this one.

 

Andrew

 

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I would also be interested in that option as well. I did ask a local French piscinier for a quote last August, but I have not heard a word from him since.

I too have the same problem with staining, I now wish I had gone for one of those fake tiled borders on the liner, but hindsight is a very common word in my pool ownweship vocabulary.

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Hi Paul

Did you get any solutions to the sun tan oil problem??  I have been looking for a better product to clean the line, it is much worse this yr than last and I think it may be down to the lotions that have some tanning products in them ( it was all over one our sunbeds!) No amount of scrubbing is shifting it and like you, our pump is on 13 hrs a day to keep the water filtering.  Thanks in advance

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Having talked to PoolGuy today,he told me that it is now possible to fix a PVC decorative border to the top of the liner. This may be of interest to all of you with plain liners like me.

This would be cheaper than the ceramic tile option, and would hopefully lessen the impact of the staining.

PoolGuy also mentioned that some of the new suncare products contain a pigment, which is proving very difficult to remove from a liner. He told me that various products were being tested, but the magic formula has not yet been found.

Personally, I think that once you have that orangey stain, it is there for good, or am I being a bit pessimistic?

Bottom line is that one cannot stop guests, in particular children using suncare products when they are using the pool, but the permanent staining on ones liner is not very pleasant.

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There is only the 2 of us, plus our labrador, who use our pool on a regular basis and we don't have a line problem at all. Mainly because we don't use sun tan/protection products. If you have people who do then just get them to have a shower and wash the crip off before going into the pool peut etra?

We did have an inherited line at water level, but Andrew gave me some non foaming (very important!!) soap to go round the water line with. This I did early last year and it is still just as clean as it was when I did it. Nice job on a very hot day too! Biggest problem was to drink the beer and squirt the soap???[+o(]

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We experienced a similar problem at the start of the year and explored the option of a decorative border.  We got to the point of nearly ordering one from a local pool shop.  We asked the pool man what if would cost for him to install it.  There was much foot shuffling and eventually he said that it wasn't a job he would like to do as the borders have a reputation for coming loose after about 6 months around the edges.  Therefore he couldn't guarantee it.  We went off the idea after that as these borders are not cheap.  Perhaps Andrew has a way around this problem.

 

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I have made some progress but the news is not particularly good ads the only solvent so far able to even make an impression on the Yellow also takes the colour from the PVC, so I now have to go to the manufacturer of the Sun Lotion in Quistion for a technical bunfight, and assuming that they will divulge the substance in question then we might be able to target the pigment only and leave the PVC alone.

 

All of the does not auger well for water quality, as the solvents which are successful are particularly nasty and I not for domestic use, they definately cannot get any in the water.

But at the moment I can get the Bright yellow down to a faint shadow.

Andrew

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  • 2 weeks later...
Goo Rat

Thanks for the question

The Stickon borders are not a permenant solution but they will make the

liner look well for a few more years. Its down to the quality of the

adhesive, but the problem is that most liners are 75/100 weight and the

borders are a very stiff 150/100 and so they do not behave the same way

with expansion and contraction or going around corners.

The Ceramic will give more life but a more than twice the price and more difficult to install.

I have made some more progress with the solvent for the Suntan cream

stains... what I need is to get more information about the particular

creams, so if any suffering pool owners could PM me with the brand of

cream which is causing the problem then I can get some more progress.

Problem is I can get the stain off but the solvent I found most

effective is so nasty I would not bring it any where near a pool. I

need to get something more targeted so I need to contact the technical

section of the manufacturers to get thier help.

Andrew

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  • 9 months later...

The problem is that your pool liner is made from plasticised PVC - the plasticiser makes it flexible.  There are various types of plasticisers, but the most common are based on phthalates, phosphates and various other oily substances thsat are highly compatible with PVC.  When someone enters the pool wearing sun cream, some (or maybe all) of the oily component floats on the surface of the pool.  Unfortunately this oily substance is quite compatible with the PVC plasticiser and there is some migration at the water line.  Unfortunately the sun cream oil is carrying a colourant / dye and as its compatible with the oil in the sun cream its also compatible with the PVC plasticiser.  So the colourant migrates with the oil - hence the yellow line around the pool.  Trying to remove it with any kind of cleaner is not going to be very effective I am afraid.  You might be lucky if you get at it quickly or there may be some variability in permanence between the colourants used in different products.  But overall not good news - better not to let it get into the pool in the first place (easy to say I know).  Don't try strong solvents or you will damage the PVC.  GRP pools generally don't have this problem.

Dave   

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  • 6 months later...

Dave

I don't have a problem - yet! But, trawling thro the 'water line' threads on the forum looking for a clue as to the best products to have on the shelf in readiness, there is a paucity of specific product recommendation or comparative test results.   Your reply indicated a technical understanding of the 'science' involved that goes beyond the average; so, not-with-standing that there is no 'golden bullet' for the sun oil problem, is there a water line cleaning product that you would recommend as being more likely than others to minimise the problem if applied routinely or quickly enough after the first signs appear? 

Alternatively, is there a safe 'barrier' product that can be applied at the water line to minimise migration of the oils into the vinyl?

 

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Fully accept your assertion as to ideal solution.  However, I don't know about you but little in my life is perfect and the prospect of all users always following my exhortation to shower first with detergent is slim - particularly where grandchildren are concerned in these days of skin cancer worries.  So my questions remain, given the vast range of water line products on the market, which have proven most effective?  Dave's earlier response indicated that he might just know a little bit more than most of us about the subject - if he is still out there!
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[quote user="ty-gwenn"]  Dave's earlier response indicated that he might just know a little bit more than most of us about the subject - if he is still out there![/quote]

And Dave's response was "better not let it get there in the first place"

As you seem to only wan't Dave's response maybe you start by sending him a PM, especially as the topic was discussed 7 months ago. Has a new wonder product arrived on the market which can un bond the stain from the plasticiser, not that I have heard about. But when I return from Spatex, the annual pool professionals conference on February 3rd I will let the forum know.

 

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I've tried to find the right stuff to 'magic' the problem away.

The Cosmetic companies has categorically refused to discuss the problem and let me know what it is that is causing the grief for pool owners, their commercial confidentialities are at stake apparently.

I've already stated that I can reduce the stain but not eliminate it from PVC most probably for the reasons elaborated by Dave. But the solvent is very nasty and should not be brought anywhere near a pool water.

My solution

1.Ceramic frieze which protects the water line from the inevitable scum from the lotions.

2. SUPPLY A LOTION TO YOUR GUEST THAT DOES NOT CAUSE THE PROBLEM

3. Or as a last resort, a sacrificial stick on around the waterline that absorbs the contaminants and then you replace after each tenant leaves.

I hope that this helps a little, but suffice it to say that a liner with the stain is a gonner, i cannot be cleaned completely and more over, successive treatment cleaning will only serve to make the material more absorbent and therefore a spiral downwards.

Andrew 

 

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Thanks Poolguy - that's as useful an answer as I've seen to date.  Given human nature, offering a 'free' lotion could be the most likely option to reduce risk.  Given your own research, would it be a fair assumption that any colourless or white pigmented sun lotion would minimise the problem?

Whilst on the subject of water line marks - and again, in order to have a product to hand in case the problem arises - what would you recommend for the cleaning of  general dirt/scum or dark (algae?) marks?  Some long time ago - on another thread - I think you offered Aqua Clean as a succesful product but I have not been able to trace it; is it still your preferred option?

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[quote user="ty-gwenn"]

Thanks Poolguy - that's as useful an answer as I've seen to date.  Given human nature, offering a 'free' lotion could be the most likely option to reduce risk.  Given your own research, would it be a fair assumption that any colourless or white pigmented sun lotion would minimise the problem?

Whilst on the subject of water line marks - and again, in order to have a product to hand in case the problem arises - what would you recommend for the cleaning of  general dirt/scum or dark (algae?) marks?  Some long time ago - on another thread - I think you offered Aqua Clean as a succesful product but I have not been able to trace it; is it still your preferred option?

[/quote]

Ty-gwenn

I can help you with both of the products you want if you care to PM/email me. Aqua clean is good for the black fungus and natural oils but cosmetics only laugh at it. I will be importing Factor 60 Block made for the Skin Cancer Council in Australia, as itcomes in a 1,2 and 5 litre pump pack and it does the business, no question, without leaving the mess. That shoudl be available before the season gets started. Only problem is qute often 'the ladies' want to tan and so they want to use these tan promoters which are heavy in pigment...... they may not accept to use the 'total block' supplied. But its a start, at least if you have provided something and they refuse to use it and still ruin you liner then you can have a go at compensation.

The 'after the horse has bolted' solution has to be the Ceramic liner freise, because you can scrub that as you like without damage and the scum should not get behind it to attack the liner. I've offered this solution for 3 years now but not many seem to want it. Seems to me its cheaper to invest in this or the 'free lotion idea' early, than it is to have to buy a new liner later!!!!!! nes pas!

Just a thought, contactme if oyu need help.

 

Andrew

 

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Factor 60 - wow!  I imagine you come out of the sun paler than you went in to it!  The freise is obviously a robust solution but I can imagine the slow take up might be because folk with a patterned liner envisage a challenge in achieving an aesthetically pleasing combination.  None the less, I'll keep it in firmly in mind and get back to you if the yellow/orange problem arises.  Thanks.
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