No chlorine in pool?

[fatscoleymo]

Hi guys hope you can help.

I think that our saltwater pool has chlorine in as I added  granulated chlorine a couple of months ago 'just in case' (Last year when we opened up we had pea soup so didn't want to go through that again).

However both the tablet and electronic readers show no chlorine. Am i right in thinking that very high concentrations bleach out the strips thereofore giving a false reading?

The pool temp is now 15. Should I just wait and keep testing and hope that I'll eventually see a high level that will keep coming down? PH and total alkinility are Ok.

 

Thanks

[Théière]

Hi,

they would need to be very high concentrations and a fair length of time to bleach the test strips which are usually good up to 6 - 10ppm and the tablets are designed for the job too.

You need to begin with the basics, If your pool is at 15 degrees open it up. How much salt have you in the pool?  what size is the pool and how much chlorine did you add a couple of months ago?

It sounds like you do not have any chlorine.

 

[fatscoleymo]

Now that we have got rid of our unwelcome guests (see my post in Gite Owners) back to the pool.

Story from the start:

We had a new saltwater pool installed in May 2005. All ok. In April 2007 when I opened up the Chlorinator was breaking down, and eventually gave up. Just inside the 2 year guarantee period. Trouble was the installer was going through major troubles at the time and I got no real help and was unable to get a replacement under warranty. Having checked prices of cell / box etc. just decided to manually dose with gallets.

Opened up in April 2008 and decided that the cell was the problem (corroded terminals very evident) and took the plunge and bought a new one - 650 euros thank you very much!. It made no difference so decided it must be the box. Went to supplier again and asked to buy just the box - was told can't do, you've got to buy the whole system. 1500 euros quoted!!!!. Would not take back the brand new cell ( only installed a few hours). Feeling fed up decided once again to dose with gallets for 2008 season.

This year as we're renting we wanted a saltwater pool so looked around and obtained a virtually identical unit from Australia - just about £400 all told delivered here in France. Good news. All fitted.

Thats just to show you how frustrated I've been about the whole thing.

Now up to date. I put 5- 25kgs bags of salt in the pool (about 43cubic mtrs) when I  took off the winter cover about 6 weeks ago - I wanted to see if the new chloinator was working. I struggled to get a salt measurement (I relalize now that the water was far too cold).  Today I've raised the pool temp form 16 to 20 with the heat pump.The chlorinator is certainly producing a mass of bubbles from the plates in the cell  but I can't get a chlorine reading near the input jets to check. I've also checked the salt level and it's very high - about7000ppm.

Also checked cyranuric acid level and this is negligable.

I guess I should shoc with granular chlorine pretty quick

Question: can I get away with this salt level, or must I pump out 1/2 of my now warmer pool, refill and get it to around 4000ppm?(Methinks I must)

Sorry to witter on, it's been a stressfull week so far.

[Théière]

Big deap breaths fatscoleymo [:D]

Your new Ausi (oops not pc) Australian unit, what salt level does the the manufacturer state, some use 9000ppm!

If yours is one using 4000ppm, using 9000ppm the water will be too conductive and you may burn out the unit, sure you dont want that to happen.

For low cost chlorination choc with bleach from one of those javel bidon at a brico.

don't add anything else yet unless its to balance the PH. 

[fatscoleymo]

Thanks teapot (and also for comments on the other thread).

Its an Aquasphere unit - made by Zodiac and the cell is identical to the Zodiac LM series which is what it replaced so that I've now got a spare cell.

Salt concentration is 4000ppm @27degrees. (How does temp affect the reading? up when it's warmer ?)

Done the salt test again and got closer to 6000ppm this time.

PH is reading 7.5

Ziltch stabiliser (cyanuric acid) I've yet to see this for sale anywhere, any ideas?

Would a 1.5 litre of Auchen nettoyant gel Javel  (Contient Hypochrite de sodium - 1.10g de chlore actif pour 100g de product) be any good? (Wifey might not notice I've nicked it from the utilty room)

Thanks for help.

 

[Théière]

At least it's a Zodiac unit so a bit of quality there.

The main problem it the power supply will get too hot as the water is too conductive, it should cut out if it gets too warm check your manual.

PH is ok it will go down when you add the bleach but the chlorinator will usually make it rise up again, what is your total alkalinity level?

Don't worry about stabiliser for now, Cyanuric is available, I bought some with me the other year and then saw it everywhere.

That javel is quite weak and because of the gel I wouldn't use it, wait until you can get the stronger regular stuff as it may contain an anionic surfectant which is really bad.

EDIT: Just checking my info, does your Zodiac unit have the superchlorination button?

 

 

[chem geek]

Unless the pool is covered or otherwise not in direct sunlight, having no stabilizer in the water will have the chlorine get broken down by the UV in sunlight very quickly -- with no Cyanuric Acid (CYA) at all, half of the Free Chlorine (FC) will get used up around every 30 minutes or so.  Your SWG might struggle to keep up.

If you can't find Cyanuric Acid itself, you can use Dichlor granular/powder since for every 10 ppm FC that it adds, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm and it dissolves quickly (unlike pure Cyanuric Acid that is slow to dissolve).  So you could just use Dichlor as your chlorine source until you've cumulatively added enough to get the CYA up.

By the way, did you close your pool with measurable CYA?  Did you let your pool go over the winter without adding any chlorine?  If the answer to both questions is yes, then soil bacteria that got into the water could have converted the CYA into ammonia (and other intermediate compounds) which would look like an insatiable chlorine demand.  It could take a large amount of chlorine to get rid of the ammonia and related compounds.  I suggest you do a bucket test to find out.  Take a large bucket of pool water and add a very small amount of chlorine to it and see if after 30-60 minutes it measures FC.  For example, 1 ml of 6% bleach in 8 liters should result in 7.7 ppm FC.

From your posts, I'm not clear if, after April, 2008, you ever tried adding chlorine manually to get a reading and were ever successful.  You concluded that your SWG wasn't working, but unless you were able to add chlorine manually and get an FC reading, then that was not the right conclusion.

As for bleaching out the standard DPD chlorine test, you have two options.  The simplest and least expensive is to also get an OTO chlorine test -- the one that has a comparator that shows yellow (instead of the pink/red of the DPD test).  Though this isn't as accurate a chlorine test, it doesn't bleach out so would at least confirm whether there is chlorine in the water or not.  Another alternative, that is the best and most accurate test for chlorine in a reasonably priced kit, is the FAS-DPD chlorine test as shown in a demo [url=http://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=11]here[/url].  It measures to within 0.2 ppm for Free Chlorine (FC) and Combined Chlorine (CC), does not bleach out, and can measure up to 50 ppm.  I don't know if you can get such a kit in France, however.

Richard

[fatscoleymo]

Thanks teapot.

The swg does not have a superchlorination button but the unit is sized for pools of about 80 cube (nearly twice mine) and produces 20 grms per hour (from memory) so max. should give a very good output. In normal operation I am planning on running it in frequent short sequences once I get agrip on its output capability.

The manual has no mention of any heat cutout.

TA is 144

So pump out and reduce salt content?

[fatscoleymo]

chem geek thanks.

The pool has a bubble solar cover on and had a winter cover on before that. I shocked the pool with granular chlorine before closing, added hivernage and did add more chlorine a couple of times during the winter - I was paranoid about having another 'pea soup' like we did last year.

I'll try the bucket test and report back.

[Théière]

[quote user="fatscoleymo"]

Thanks teapot.

So pump out and reduce salt content?

[/quote]

Providing the power supply does not get too hot you should get away with it. Looking at my information on the Zodiac power unit it can take up to 13000ppm

I love chemgeeks cya comment (no offence) half of your free chlorine could be............what free chlorine [:D]

Get some ordinary javel tomorrow and some cya, don't go mad with the cya or you will have to drain some water, a couple of litres should do it but give it plenty of time between doses.

What kind of filter do you have?

[fatscoleymo]

Hi teapot.

Having slept on it I'll think I'll pump out 1/3 pool and replenish. That should get the salt concentration down around 4000ppm. After all the costs with replacments I'd rather spend 30 euros on water and a bit on heat than risk damage to the new unit.

Where will I find cya? (Cyanuric acid) I don't believe I've ever seem it in the pool shops I frequent. Does it have another name or term?

Ordinary Javel - what sort of amount into my 43cube pool.? I've never checked but I suppose it may come in different concentrations?

Standard sand filter - I changed the sand the begining of last season after we got rid of the pea soup.

Next time get Zeolite? (Is that the correct name?)

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[fatscoleymo]

chemgeek 

Did the bucket test and got a measure of 6.7ppm chlorine after 45 mins so water seems ok just no chlorine.

We did manually dose with chlorine all through 2008 - the swg control box stopped functioning altogether so we new for certain is was kaput.

At the moment just about finished pumping out 1/3rd pool and will refill today. That should get salt concentration to around 4000ppm which is what we want.

Thanks for help.

[Théière]

[quote user="fatscoleymo"]

Hi teapot.

Having slept on it I'll think I'll pump out 1/3 pool and replenish. That should get the salt concentration down around 4000ppm. After all the costs with replacments I'd rather spend 30 euros on water and a bit on heat than risk damage to the new unit. Some units can cope some can't, it's down to the power supply. You are taking the safe route.

Where will I find cya? (Cyanuric acid) I don't believe I've ever seem it in the pool shops I frequent. Does it have another name or term? Acide de Cyanuric, Stabiliser de chlorine

Ordinary Javel - what sort of amount into my 43cube pool.? I've never checked but I suppose it may come in different concentrations? It does come in different concentrations it's the thin ones in 5 litre container, sprinkle it in front of the returns then it will mix easier, add a litre at a time wait a couple of hours then test. If you over do it it will soon burn off then add CYA. Make sure it does not contain anionic surfectants these are really bad for pools just 5ml messes up the chemicals.

Standard sand filter - I changed the sand the begining of last season after we got rid of the pea soup. Consider getting some flocculent to help out the sand filter

Next time get Zeolite? (Is that the correct name?) PoolGuy would say yes, I would say AFM from Dryden aqua especially as it's a salt/chlorine pool.

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[/quote]

[fatscoleymo]

Cheers teapot - I'm going out this pm to shop for cya and javel.

Once again, thanks

[oliveau]

Our 75Cu M saltwater pool was installed in 2005, and during the first winter the filter and pump were left drained. Subsequently we've left the whole thing in operation during the winter, with the pump running an hour per day and the chlorination control box set to  the winnter position. Lowest temperature of the water last winter was 6C. I also give it a clean with the robot a couple of times during the winter - Nice clean pool in the Spring! It gets in the order of 6-8 bags of Water Softener salt from the Brico each Spring.