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We are thinking about building a couple of gites and allowing the tenants to use our swimming pool. Can anyone tell me what regulations I need to have in place for the pool over and above the usual ones? For instance  I have been told I need automatic ph and chlorine balance equipment. Thanks for all relevant info Mick

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Best plan is to call me and I can talk you through the list of considerations.

 

However, breifly your need to comply with DDASS (Dept of Health )regulations.

So you must have

  • 3 hour water change, all water is filtered every 3 hours;
  • Sanitsation conforming with norm - auto dosing conforms, so does manual chlor but its difficult to keep up with testing and dosing.
  • Shower near pool
  • Pediluvre (foot bath) wheel chair accessable
  • Toilets with access
  • Test (pH, Chlor libre)at least once per day with reliable tester and record
  • Your water mist be free of chloromines, phosphates, nitrates and certain bacteria,and paracites
  • AFNOR Compliant security

Not an extensive list and it depends on the inspector how tough they will be on you, but its an indication.

(Just a note that salt chlorine generators are NOT accepted as they do not conform.)

I can help you upgrade your pool to be compliant and pass the water test every time if you want, you'll need t contact me.

Andrew

 

 

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Not doubting the above but.... I don't know anyone who has the above in place, (of course the safety aspects should be adhered to for any pool.) 

Perhaps take some local advice rather than just from someone who sells pools and accessories and has a vested interest in having people conform to these rather onerous standards.

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Panda

My god are you having a joke, do you not realise what you are saying is admitting the break the law and advising other to do so as well?

What I have specified in the post above is not my fanciful moneygrubbing but rather  -the Law, according to the DDASS regulations which I have taken the time to read but you obviously have not. Anyone can read the same if they use the internet.

So if you run a Gite and also know others who do so conciously flouting the LAW and public health regulations and norms , well that is your affiar. But please keep that to yourself rather than declaring it on a public forum which shows off your blatent disregard for the Law in France and the health of your clients. These are STANDARDS, and the same throughout France, I fail to see what 'Local Advice' has got to do with it.

 

Andrew

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 your local DDASS office will give you a  printout of the regs they are helpful

 Andrew is spot on with the DAASS regs we have had to comply to in the past.

 

Even if a lot of gites do not comply to the regs does not mean you can get away with not complying

Chrish

 

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Hello Andrew

I have actually read the regs and also have taken a look at the site where it lists for an area all of the 'audits' DDASS undertook in the last year.

There were 229 for the particular area, not ONE was for gites;;

En 2008, le département comptait 53 piscines permanentes, ouvertes toute l’année, et 65 piscines saisonnières, ouvertes généralement de mai à septembre, soient 229 bassins. Parmi les piscines permanentes, on trouve notamment 26 établissements traditionnels utilisés principalement pour la natation (dans un grand bassin) et 13 centres aquatiques proposant des activités ludiques (toboggans, bains bouillonnants…). Les piscines saisonnières regroupent les piscines de campings, d’hôtels, des piscines communales extérieures, des piscines de golf et de clubs privés.

I never said that what you were quoting was not true, I suggested that they should speak to someone with less of a vested interest.

I don't have a gite myself any longer but know lots of french friends with gites who do not have disabled access, toilets etc. etc. I can't wait to tell them they better get on and build some, oh how they will laugh!

We can all claim to be an expert on here, regardless of what we did in a previous life,  you are free to put yourself forward as a qualified pool expert and we are free to decide whether your information is biased or not.

I am also free to state anything I like on an internet forum as are you.

EDIT, oh yet another pool builder stating the same, thanks chrish of piscineplus.

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Panda

I will install whatever the client askes for, but as a pool builder i am obliged to give the correct info at the time of the sale , if the client does not want to follow the regs then its up to them i would not try to sell them something they do not want.

I am in negotiation with two  Gite complexes, one wants to follow the regs and the other does not

But i gave them both the same info. i would not be doing my job if i did not.

The debateable point is when the regs come into the gite market, the way i read it is a single gite is ok but a gite complex with more than one family needs to go by the regs.

I may be wrong.

Chrish

 

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Hi Chris

I think you are right it seems unclear as to whether it applies to gites or not and the owner should make the choice.  It would be intresting to know how many french gite complex owners adhere to these regs. 

To suggest that the same regs should apply to a pool used by two gites and a lagoon complex used by thousands seems ludicrous though to me.  They talk about being open to the public as being a reason to comply and it's the interpretation of that that is difficult.

Panda

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Well, thanks for a very full and frank discussion!

Yes, believe it or not, I am not setting up a leisure park with wave machines, slides and thousands of visitors. I am talking about a straight forward 10x5 in my back garden for use by my family, our friends and a few guests we have staying at our two gites.

If I am reading correctly, you are saying is that there is only one set of regs and they are aimed primarily at large public pools but are ambiguous enough to suggest that they might apply to gites. Is that so? Is there no regs at all aimed specifically at small time gite owners?

Panda - thanks very much for your illuminating contributions. I would very much like to talk to your friends who have gites and get first hand info from them on this subject. Could you post an email address or phone number? If not could you forward my email address on to them and ask them to contact me.

Contact details edited by the moderators. Please use the email or PM buttons on this post to contact the poster.

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At the end of the day you make your own mind up or just go to the DDASS and ask we can only advise you.

All that I can say is at least make sure you have the best filtration system that you can get and plan the pool to be able to upgrade if you have to comply one day.

If you need any more info or a quote please email or pm

chrish

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[quote user="mickcooke"]

Yes, believe it or not, I am not setting up a leisure park with wave machines, slides and thousands of visitors. I am talking about a straight forward 10x5 in my back garden for use by my family, our friends and a few guests we have staying at our two gites.

If I am reading correctly, you are saying is that there is only one set of regs and they are aimed primarily at large public pools but are ambiguous enough to suggest that they might apply to gites. Is that so? Is there no regs at all aimed specifically at small time gite owners?

Panda - thanks very much for your illuminating contributions. I would very much like to talk to your friends who have gites and get first hand info from them on this subject. Could you post an email address or phone number? If not could you forward my email address on to them and ask them to contact me.

[/quote]

Mick

I am not at all sure that the real situation concerning compliance has been made clear, and perhaps for the 'last word' on the matter you should actually contact your local DDASS inspector. In the mean time, so far as I read the regs what's important is the definition of a 'public pool' for its only these that the DDASS are concerned about. Cutting through the volume of verbage, it comes down to any pool or aquatic facility where the public is charged for its use, or more than one family at a time. The later part of that is confusing and unclear so for the time being I suugest that you ignore it untill its clarified by them. Now loking at the former where a proprieter is charging for the use of the pool then this would seem to included ALL, and ANY Gite installations large, small or otherwise. (the fact that Panda and his mates want to laugh at the regs is beside the point, we all know that its the 'culture' here)

Now the reality is what determines what you decide to do, which is that there are over 35,000 Gites in France, not counting Hotels, campings, Chamdre D'hote, Municiplals most of whom have pools. The DDASS simply do not have the staff to get around and test them all each month. So you can see the reason why some owners have never seen an inspector and probably never will, but that in no way excuses them from complaince with the regs. For those that do not comply will get into a significantly difficult position should a matter of public health be investigated after the fact. Shoud they be found at fault then, so far as my experience with that position goes, they are immediately closed for use by the public, then the investigation runs its course and the consquence are dealt out. Meantime the pool proprieter will loose the use of a very valuable asset and suffer the embarrassment of explaining to guests why they cannot use the pool that was advertised.

If you want to take advise from other gite owners then go ahead by all means but please recognise that they are not the people making the rules, and most of them certinaly do not abide by them.I beleive its the DDASS that you should be taking to and sooner rather than later bearing in mind the plans you have for an Aqualtic park - which certainly sound significant enough to come under their gaze and therefore certain to be inspected regularly.

Andrew

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[quote user="Poolguy"][quote user="mickcooke"]

Yes, believe it or not, I am not setting up a leisure park with wave machines, slides and thousands of visitors. I am talking about a straight forward 10x5 in my back garden for use by my family, our friends and a few guests we have staying at our two gites.

[/quote]

If you want to take advise from other gite owners then go ahead by all means but please recognise that they are not the people making the rules, and most of them certinaly do not abide by them.I beleive its the DDASS that you should be taking to and sooner rather than later bearing in mind the plans you have for an Aqualtic park - which certainly sound significant enough to come under their gaze and therefore certain to be inspected regularly.

Andrew

[/quote]

I think you may have missed the'not' in Mick's reply there Andrew!

As I said before the friends I have are french and think that the Brit preoccupation with rules is amusing, how's your french Mick, is it up to a conversation on the subject?  If so I will find a couple of numbers.

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So Mick, your pool used as you describe it will be a public pool and the advice given by chrish and Andrew is correct - whether you like it ot not, and whether or not you (or anyone else with a pool used by more than one property) complies with the law

The fact that few people are aware of a law does not make it go away

Go to

http://baignades.sante.gouv.fr/editorial/en/controle/reglementation.html

and you'll find useful references in English. I would particularly draw

your attention to Article L. 1332-1 of the Code de la Santé Publique,

and to Article D1332-1

You will find that a public pool is defined as one which is used by more than one family. Public pool normes and rules apply to it.

You can download a useful leaflet at http://aquitaine.sante.gouv.fr/download/piscam24.pdf, the rules are the same throughout France

There was an article in FPN some time ago, written by a Chartered Surveyor, you could ask the editor for a copy

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What do you do for a living Polly?[:D]

The ruling is nowhere near as clear as you are stating it here, even Chris agreed on that point!  I have been told different things by different people, some in the pool business some in the mayors office. 

Public pool is defined as paying to enter the pool, again even poolguy has quoted this in the past.

There is clearly a grey area around pools in this regard and so everyone should make their own choice and not be bullied by those seeking to line their own pockets.

 

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I don't think anyone is bullying anybody, those like Chris and I are merely making information available.

I do hope you are not implying that I am seeking to 'line my pocket' - please clarify

As to what I do for a living : I have chosen not to disclose that on this forum in detail. For your information neither I nor anyone else in my close family sell or build swimming pools, neither do we own gites or a B&B.

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Hi

I have gites, and no affiliation to any pool companies.

We are visited by the DDASS every month in season as are friends of ours who have gites locally. We are in department 16. We are charged around 100 euros per visit for the pleasure and the lab anaysis. There is no choice in this.

What poolguy has said in his 1st post is pretty much on the money, however to clarify, the DDASS are only interested in the quality of your water, not fencing, disabled access etc etc - JUST WATER QUALITY.

If you have PAYING GUESTS (hotel, B&B, camp site, gite or whatever) then you are classified as a public pool, the system may seem harsh, but there is no "only just public pool" category - you are or you arnt, plain and simple!

I see it as a good thing, becuase it enforces us (gite owners etc) to take pool water quality seriously -as it should be with any amenities you provide to paying guests.

David

 

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Thanks for your input Polly and Goo_Rat

Just to clarify the last point made by Goo_Rat, the requirement for 'wheelchair accessible pedilouve' is for new planning applications only (as I understand it) and it has been requested only 3 times whereas many others were not asked to include it -the Offices that did ask were in the North. And secondly, an official from the DDASS informed me that even though they do not have the responsibility to inspect for conforming security, they were asked by the Gendarmes (who do have the responsibility) to provide information on Pool sites that did not conform, as the Gendarmes did not have the manpower to undertake inspections.  Again I suspect that this matter applies differently in different regions and is not a national policy (so far as I know- perhaps Chris can verify that during his meeting).

And to reiterate the position with regard to who is and who is not under DDASS control for water quality. Its clear, that if a proprietor charges for facilities NO MATTER HOW SMALL THE ACTIVITY (1 gite with a pool, or a spa even), then the pool is a 'public pool' and must comply with the norms. Any proprietor who ignores the norms and operates a public facility below the standard required by the norm is taking a grave risk, both for the continuation of their business and personally I suspect, as the matter could be regarded as personal negligence.

All this should be academic however, as conforming with these norms is not really that onerous, it just means that the proprietor must pay attention to the specification of the equipment on the pool and to the maintenance thereafter. In my estimation, the extra cost of building a pool, which is compliant, is not more than 10% extra. Which is not much considering the earning power of the facility.

Andrew

 

 

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  • 5 years later...
A long time later....

I would add that hiring out a 'gite' demands a great deal of due diligence on the part of the owner. From smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, etc in the house to pool safety, which includes an alarm or regulation fencing, testing and recording water quality and in our case warning that the pool is 1.2 mtrs throughout and 'NO DIVING'. Demonstrating due diligence as well as making every effort to comply with regulations is a strong argument in court!
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