Joshua Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 This has just landed in my emailsIt's the final bit of the reply to my enquiry about what happens when my E106 runs out and the gap until my E121 kicks inIt follows all the stuff we all familiar with,The specific condition as relates to health insurance in Directive2008/34 is that you must “have comprehensive sickness insurance coverin the host Member State”. There is no requirement that this needs tobe private cover . You should also know that the sameDirective gives you a right to equal treatment, which means that youcannot be treated less favourably than French nationals. Article 24specifically states that “all Union citizens residing on the basis ofthis Directive in the territory of the host Member State shall enjoyequal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within thescope of the Treaty.” "Whilst the French government isentitled to change rules on healthcare rules for “inactive” persons,this is subject to the condition that the new French rules applyequally and in the same manner to French nationals and EU citizens. In the event that the new French rules apply solely to EU citizens,whilst allowing French nationals to remain covered by CMU or the CPAM,this could be considered unlawful discrimination under EU law. In thatevent, as a matter of EU law, you must be entitled to continue toaffiliate to the CMU or the CPAM under the same conditions as Frenchnationals." We hope this answers your query. Yours sincerely, Citizens Signpost Service Theadvice given by the Signpost Service legal experts is independentadvice and shall not be considered to be the opinion of the EuropeanCommission. As such it will not in anyway bind the Commission.Regards Joshua [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 is that you must “have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State”. There is no requirement that this needs to be private cover . I'm missing something here - given that the you will be no longer able to join the French scheme and your British entitlement will have lapsed - what else is there ?I don't know about [:D][:D]I think[8-)][8-)][8-)] is in order........Are you thinking that this means you will not need Private cover because the French will have to provide a system for you to be affiliated to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hi,I made no comment regarding the email.I was hoping someone might spot something worth looking intoI'm always smiling by the wayRegards Joshua[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I hope 'someone ' does, but I don't think it will be me - Good Luck with it anyway[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Am I missing something here but theCitizen Signpost reply seems to say (not suggest but actually say)that what the French are doing excluding non-French "ianctif"EU citizens from the CMU is actually illegal. 5-year rule seems notthe issue, just a different clause in the directive the French claimto be using to expel peope from CMU cover.Maybe they could give some more detailsabout exactly which clauses make the action of discriminating againstnon-French EU citizens illegal ?Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I think this is so, Deimos. I have always believed this is discriminatory, depending of course upon what happens in the future to French "inactifs." Dress it up however you like, it has always seemed to me to be a thinly veiled attack on anybody who's not French by birth. A good, solid part of our case, to my mind. I've said so in my own letters to MPs/MEPs etc. And FHI is actively looking at this angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesg Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 [quote user="Joshua"] In the event that the new French rules apply solely to EU citizens,whilst allowing French nationals to remain covered by CMU or the CPAM,this could be considered unlawful discrimination under EU law. In thatevent, as a matter of EU law, you must be entitled to continue toaffiliate to the CMU or the CPAM under the same conditions as Frenchnationals.[/quote]This seems to be perfectly clear and means that the proposed changes are unlawful and should be withdrawn immediately.Have you forwarded this to the MEP who has taken up these cases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 No doubt this is posted somewhere, but it may provide some answers to queries just posed. Go to the address given for the pdf version and read it for yourself I've just cut and pasted and itlicised some relevant bits - sorry it is long nevertheless. However, I cannot believe Sarko and his cronies haven't got it all covered before launching the bombshell.ChrisDIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENTAND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2004/l_158/l_15820040430en00770123.pdf(17) Enjoyment of permanent residence by Union citizens who have chosen to settle long term inthe host Member State would strengthen the feeling of Union citizenship and is a key elementin promoting social cohesion, which is one of the fundamental objectives of the Union. Aright of permanent residence should therefore be laid down for all Union citizens and theirfamily members who have resided in the host Member State in compliance with theconditions laid down in this Directive during a continuous period of five years withoutbecoming subject to an expulsion measure(18) In order to be a genuine vehicle for integration into the society of the host Member State inwhich the Union citizen resides, the right of permanent residence, once obtained, should notbe subject to any conditions.(20) In accordance with the prohibition of discrimination on grounds of nationality, all Unioncitizens and their family members residing in a Member State on the basis of this Directiveshould enjoy, in that Member State, equal treatment with nationals in areas covered by theTreaty, subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty andsecondary law.but this seems to be be what Sarko's banking on:(21) However, it should be left to the host Member State to decide whether it will grant socialassistance during the first three months of residence, or for a longer period in the case ofjob-seekers, to Union citizens other than those who are workers or self-employed persons orwho retain that status or their family members, or maintenance assistance for studies,including vocational training, prior to acquisition of the right of permanent residence, to thesesame persons.However there is also this ( but what does it mean in practical terms?):(29) This Directive should not affect more favourable national provisions and this - is this a life saver?:1. Union citizens who have resided legally for a continuous period of five years in the hostMember State shall have the right of permanent residence there. This right shall not be subject tothe conditions provided for in Chapter III ( ie health insurance and working or self-employed)Equal Treatment:( this may be a help too)1. Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondarylaw, all Union citizens residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the host MemberState shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within the scope of theTreaty. The benefit of this right shall be extended to family members who are not nationals of aMember State and who have the right of residence or permanent residence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Not only that, Chris, but take a look at point 18 and think about it. Those of us who were established here before October 1st, had already gained the right to permanent residency. It's a short hop then to suggest that none of these people can be subject to conditions at all - they already have the right, 5 years or not.Have you read Makfai's excellent paper on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 And I thought it was me reading to much into this reply !It was late when I recieved it by email and sometimes you interpret it the way you would like to see it.I'm going to submit a complaint to the EU Ombudsman using the reply from the CSS claiming unfairness and discriminationHe's based in ParisWish me lookJoshua[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makfai Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 [quote user="Joshua"]This has just landed in my emailsIt's the final bit of the reply to my enquiry about what happens when my E106 runs out and the gap until my E121 kicks inIt follows all the stuff we all familiar with,The specific condition as relates to health insurance in Directive 2008/34 is that you must “have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State”. There is no requirement that this needs to be private cover . You should also know that the same Directive gives you a right to equal treatment, which means that you cannot be treated less favourably than French nationals. Article 24 specifically states that “all Union citizens residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the host Member State shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within the scope of the Treaty.” "Whilst the French government is entitled to change rules on healthcare rules for “inactive” persons, this is subject to the condition that the new French rules apply equally and in the same manner to French nationals and EU citizens. In the event that the new French rules apply solely to EU citizens, whilst allowing French nationals to remain covered by CMU or the CPAM, this could be considered unlawful discrimination under EU law. In that event, as a matter of EU law, you must be entitled to continue to affiliate to the CMU or the CPAM under the same conditions as French nationals." We hope this answers your query. Yours sincerely, Citizens Signpost Service The advice given by the Signpost Service legal experts is independent advice and shall not be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission. As such it will not in anyway bind the Commission.Regards Joshua [:D][/quote] Forgetting the fact that the legal experts at the Signpost Service cannot get the reference of the Directive correct I have found this aspect confusing. The inequality mentioned here is based on Article 24 of the Directive which says:1. Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary law, all Union citizens residing on the basis of this Directive in the territory of the host Member State shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State within the scope of the Treaty. The benefit of this right shall be extended to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have the right of residence or permanent residence.What I don't understand is why the Signpost Service legal experts feel that the words 'Subject to such specific provisions as are expressly provided for in the Treaty and secondary law,' cannot be used by the French Govt to excuse any 'inequality' created by this Directive. Is the Directive 'secondary law' or not? I hope they are correct and it is not. So saying any challenge is a good challenge in my book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Good look, Joshua![:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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