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CPAM - Proof of residence


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[quote user="chessfou"]

Yes, absolutely. It may not be the answer to the (potential) problem but it can't do any harm and it doesn't cost anything (beyond a couple of passport photos).

[/quote]

Having just applied, I can tell you it costs 70 euros for renewal of a carte de sejour.  Mine was a five year one and ran out recently.  I thought it a good idea to get another.  But perhaps the first one does not cost anything.

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[quote user="TreizeVents"][quote user="chessfou"]
Yes, absolutely. It may not be the answer to the (potential) problem but it can't do any harm and it doesn't cost anything (beyond a couple of passport photos).
[/quote]

Having just applied, I can tell you it costs 70 euros for renewal of a carte de sejour.  Mine was a five year one and ran out recently.  I thought it a good idea to get another.  But perhaps the first one does not cost anything.
[/quote]13V, does this mean that you are somebody who has actually re-applied and got one?  Are you a "non-worker"? Because if so, you may be one of the first to prove some solid evidence amongst all the speculation which is going on.  It would be interesting to know.
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New information,

I just went back to the police station with my dossier, including my 70 euro stamp, purchased at the Hotel des Impots yesterday.  Turns out that the police were wrong when they told me to buy one a few days ago.  If one is in the EU, one DOES NOT have to pay for the renewal.  They said I could probably go back to the Hotel, return the stamps, and get my money back.  I will try later, but I imagine they are right.  So for the first time in history, I had TOO MANY items in the dossier. 

As for whether I get the renewal or not, don't hold your breath.  The police said that a local Spanish person who wanted a renewal put the application forward in March, and got the card back in August.   The local police line is that since you don't NEED a carte de sejour, then there is no big rush, and they do it when they fancy.  But you can be sure that when I get a renewal, I will tell all.  In fact, I think I might just hassle the prefecture a little every few weeks, just to hasten the process and find out what is gong on.

When the local police rang the prefecture on one small point of information, the person answering said that I didn't NEED a carte de sejour.  But I insisted, and we filled in the application. 

Next step, fill in the citizenship papers and see what happens there.  I am gong through the Tribunal de Grand Instance route, since I have a French wife.  This is meant to take less time.

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Bon courage 13V!  I'm afraid I got the wrong end of the stick and thought that we were talking Cartes Vitales here.  Phew.[:'(]  Good to know as the next item on my agenda is French citizenship (will this affect my entitlement to join the CMU?) and I think a CdeS will help. Thanks.
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The boxes are asking if you have any income I believe.  If you have you will insert the "revenu fiscal de référence" stated on your tax avis.  On this general subject though:-     I have just returned from the main CPAM office in Laval, Pays de la Loire and I gave them all of the forms that had been sent to me duly completed.  I also took EDF bills, Foncière, Habitation (all as proof of residence), copies of tax avis 2005 and 2006, copies of passport, copies of CPAM attestation and Carte Vitales for my wife and I, as I thought they had requested in their letter.  The gentleman there took the completed forms and the copies of 2005 tax avis and informed me that he was not interested in anything else!  I pointed out the requirement for the other things in the official letter but got the "gallic shrug" and was informed that this was a "national" request being sent out and, as far as his office was concerned, they only wanted the completed form and the 2005 tax avis!  Go figure..........still it turned out to be much easier than I had expected it to be.  Fingers crossed.

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[quote user="chessfou"][quote]Do you think we should go to our local Mairie and enquire about a Carte de Sejour as we live here now [suninfrance][/quote]

Yes, absolutely. It may not be the answer to the (potential) problem but it can't do any harm and it doesn't cost anything (beyond a couple of passport photos). When we arrived in France in May last year, getting a Titre de Séjour ...[/quote]

How did you manage to get a T de S? I went to the préfecture and, although very politely treated, was categorically told that we absolutely, totally do not need one (I beg to differ as I think it would be very useful) and could not have one as they were chocca with trying to sort out the real 'étrangers' - as she called them - from far-flung countries, not 'nos amis les britanniques'.

Sue - green with envy [+o(]

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We moved here in July 2004 and the CdeS were "abolished" in the January of that year, so depending on which department you live in, it is unlikley that one will be issued.  Friends in a nearby commune were positively refused one and told that they were no longer required.

What is a person to do to prove residency?

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Dear SuninFrance,

You've got no tax avis.  Do you have a driving license?  That sometimes works.  Your phone bill should be useful, if you try live here and make phone calls every week.  And take your EDF bills for a year.  Sometimes If you offer them several pieces, they pick one.

And for those interested in trivial details, I went back to the Hotel des Impots and tried to get a refund on my special carte de sejours related 70 euros worth of stamps.  They said sorry, they couldn't give my money back.  I paid in cash.  I got a story about how once sold they could not refund the moeny as such.  But they put them in an envelope, with my name and address and phone.  The next time someone comes in to the buy stamps for a carte de sejour, if they want to pay in cash, the fonctionnaire, nice guy, will sell them my stamps and then ring me to tell me to pick up the money.  Do you think it will happen?  I do.  When?  The guy said anywhere from tomorrow to a year or two.

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[quote user="cooperlola"] Good to know as the next item on my agenda is French citizenship (will this affect my entitlement to join the CMU?) and I think a CdeS will help. Thanks.[/quote]

For my citizenship, I have the added advantage of having a livret de famille as I got married to French wife in France.  That means I can take a shortcut (supposedly) and do it at the Tribunal de Grande Instance.  So I copied the documentary evidence needed from the government website.  Some of it was not clear at all, so I rang to find out what was needed.  The one guy who deals with us foreigners married to French, said I should not believe the requirements on the website, because they change a lot.  I asked him to tell me what the current ones were over the phone, saving me a return journey.  He said I had to come in to get the list, and then come in again when I had my dossier.  I thought that was cute really.  The website does not have the right list.  And he can't tell me over the phone.  I think it is a test of my integration into the cuture.  When I go to see him, I am sure I am supposed to say things like "c'est normal" and "c'est la charme du Midi".  That would indicate I love the place.

I am assuming that a French citizen will automatically and in all cases be entitled to everything French.  What worries me a little is whether that might mean that I am NOT entitled to something British.  Even though I am British as well.  Like my state pension after 39 or 40 years of contributions.  Actually I am not worried about that, just that there will be some consequences I can't predict.  I have a long term illness, expensive to treat.  I can't mess about with uncertainty.

More details when I get them, for those few who think being a citizen is a good idea.

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[quote]How did you manage to get a T de S?[spg][/quote]

We applied via our Mairie (only 550 hab. total in our commune, so more personal service - especially since this was about our third visit, so we had begun to build a relationship with the Secretary).

As for whether the TdS was necessary or not, I was concerned about the legislation* (now in the limelight) that as "under-age" retirees who would be "inactif" we did not have automatic right of abode. TdS duly arrived after we supplied details of our income (can't remember now whether we supplied copies of E106s or not).

*If under state retirement age and not in receipt of E121 and "inactif" then "EU citizens must have health cover

and they must have sufficient resources to support themselves without

recourse to the social assistance of the host Member State" (the 2006 EU wording which is almost identical to the old French wording), otherwise no right to reside in France.

At the time we applied for the TdS this was something of a gray area since the old French regs said one thing and EU rules something contradictory. Now, of course, they are in harmony (even if we don't like it).

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Hello Cooperola et al

We had the letter a couple of weeks ago( we've lived since 2000).  I sent everything but inlcuded the CPAM own factures for the year showing all our visits etc to the Drs, arguing that these prove by date, that we have been in residence throughout the year.  I included a covering letter arguing that EDF bills merely show that I pay the bills and not that I use the electricity by living here!  I also reminded them that Cartes de séjour are no longer required, though I did send copies of ours.  My letter was slightly barbed in tone and now wish I had backed off a bit.  However, my French independent financial chap, who is brilliant at all things financial and insurance, contacted CPAM Charente and assures me that we shall continue to able to "cotise" and remain in the CMU.  I wonder if that might be an indication that if you are already 'in' you will stay 'in', but that newcomers will not be allowed to join.  That would seem to be the only proper way for the authorities to proceed as any retrospective action is frought with problems, not least, possible legal class action in the European court ( I hope).

We shall in November transfer to E121 anyaway and today received notice of 'Her' pension etc and the E121 to give to the CPAM, so for us no worries, but I am just very sorry for the worry and frustration caused to so many of my fellow immigrants.

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Hi Sweet17,

Tried to reply via the link but couldn't He is on 0553 467 747 and speaks perfect English. He's an independent  insurance broker who has the advantage of having worked in UK so knows his stuff.  He helped me with CPAM and also getting into the tax system. I think he is brilliant and has saved me by getting best insurance deals on car camper and house etc.

Good luck.

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The outcome of all this seems to be becoming clearer now and it seems that those who have proved 6 months' stable residence and who are already paying into the CMU de base, are going to be OK.  Whatever, I think that I will now make more conserted efforts with our Mairie to get a TdeS or at least an equivalent.  Proving residency, once and for all and with formal documentation, may turn out to be more critical than ever before.
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cooperlola

Not sure if it is becoming clearer. The following post suggests that even if you have had 2 years stable residence you will not be able to get cover when you come of your E106.

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1020177/ShowPost.aspx

I think the problem is the authorities definition of terms like 'already in the system' and 'existing resident'.

 

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The information provided by the DWP staff in Glyn's link appears to be inconsistent with the position on the French side.

If you previously arrived in France with an E106, then you will have registered for CMU under the reciprocal arrangements criteria and you will have been issued with a social security number, so you are 'in the system'.  Upon expiry of the E106, your exisiting CMU registration should be subject to normal renewal, but now under the residency criteria, and you will have to provide the usual annual proof of residence, ie a tax avis.  It is not a matter of joining the CMU because you're already in it.

The indications are that anyone who is currently registered will be entitled to continue with their cover and that the limitions will only apply to new arrivals.  That would suggest that currently registered E106 holders will be allowed continuing cover, albeit on a contributory basis.

 

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[quote user="Boiling a frog"]Do not think that that is correct   When you arrive with your E106 you register with CPAM not with CMU When your E106 runs out you need to apply for cover with CPAM via CMU[/quote]

CMU stands for Couverture Maladie Universelle which is the basic state healthcare insurance.  CPAM is the organisation which manages and administers that insurance, eg, registrations, reimbursements, etc.

When you arrive with your E106/E121, you register with CPAM for your CMU insurance.  When your E106 runs out you are already insured under CMU and you are essentially renewing your cover, again through your CPAM office.

 

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When you arrive with your E106/E121 you register with CPAM NOT with CMU .FromPeter Owens website

http://www.expathealthdirect.co.uk/eforms.htm

 

Registration with CPAM  via E106 or E121 does not come within the scope of CMU legislation.

Therefore it is only after the expiry of the E106 that you apply for cover under CMU legislation

 

Registration with CPAM via E106 and E121 does not come within the scope of the CMU legislation so no financial contribution is required apart from the inherent top up element that characterises the funding of healthcare in France.

 

Registration with CPAM via E106 and E121 does not come within the scope of the CMU legislation so no financial contribution is required apart from the inherent top up element that characterises the funding of healthcare in France.

Registration with CPAM via E106 and E121 does not come within the scope of the CMU legislation so no financial contribution is required apart from the inherent top up element that characterises the funding of healthcare in France.

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Sorry, BtF, but I'm sure Sunday Driver has the relationship between these two bodies correctly.

There is a lot of good info' here

http://www.ameli.fr/fiches-synthetiques/c.m.u.-et-c.m.u.-complementaire_sarthe.php

It is certainly the case that one's social security number (the reference on your Carte Vitale) does not change when you move from an E106 to contributing to the CMU de base.  I cannot see why the French authorities would distinguish between the two - they pay the individual concerned in the same way - the only difference is that they can claim costs from the UK, not from the person.

Whether there will be any changes in the future, I'm still not 100% convinced although as we know, this gentleman rarely gets it wrong! S/D, how sure are you on this one?  I for one, still await an announcement from the French end.  Have you seen anything yet, S/D, since Monday's meeting?

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Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here, but I do have a valid excuse, my brain can't deal with a lot of things after my haemorrhage.

My E106 ran out in January this year.  I went to the local CPAM and asked what I did next.  Helpful (not) person just took my card away and said I was no longer entitled.  However, as my OH didn't arrive until a year after me, his E106 doesn't run out until Jan 2008, so I still have a CV but off the back of his.

OH is still receiving Incapacity Benefit from the UK, so does this mean that he may be entitled to extend his cover on his E106, in which case, I would be covered too?  Or ...... does he need to apply to the CMU?  Bearing in mind the latest on Healthcare in France for those under retirement age and not working, where does that leave us.

Can we apply to the CMU for cover or not.

It's all so very confusing. 

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