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SOS - VERY CONFUSED NOW


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We very much appreciatesome help from those of you in the know.

We are inactives and have lived in France since June 2006 and rented a place whilst we looked for a propery to buy. We registered with our local CPAM and received our Securite Sociale numbers as well as our Carte Vitales after producing our E106.

We bought a property in July 2007 and thought that as we are permanent residents that we would automatically be in the CMU system but after a telephone conversation with CPAM today asking for any updates they may have as our E106 expired on Sunday. We were told that an update is expected in March and we were advised to take out private medical cover and that we are not in the CMU and that this does not happen automatically. When asking if we can apply now the answer was no. We have proof of our residancy in the form of utility bills and bank statements to show that we have paid rent but have not yet been received  a tax return. Where can we go for some sound advice, it all seems very uncertain at the moment.

HELP

Regards Eniamor

 

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I am sorry to have to tell you this, but the chances are that you will have to take out private cover or you will be residing here illegally.  Anybody not paying into the CMU (as opposed to having been covered by an E form under the regime generale) must now get Private Insurance.  There are one or two cases where you can appeal - but they depend upon your having a chronic or pre-existing illness which prevents you from obtaining private health cover.

We are trying to get this decision reversed but it is an uphill struggle.  We are making approaches on many fronts, including investigating how we can mount legal challenges to the retrospective nature of these changes.

For all the latest information, which we publish the moment we have it, see our website:

www.frenchhealthissues.eu

including information about the kind of health cover which you are legally required to have, and some of the companies which provide it.

EDIT: As you've only been here since July, do check with the DWP to see make sure that you have had all your E106 entitlement.

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[quote user="eniamor"]

... but have not yet been received  a tax return. Where can we go for some sound advice, it all seems very uncertain at the moment.

[/quote]

Sorry if this sounds brusque but you wont be sent a tax form - for your first submission you have to either download all the forms you need from the internet or collect them from your tax office when they are available - usually around April/May time. You should have completed a tax declaration last year ( April/May 2007) for the period June to December 2006,  which would have given you further ammunition as to your permanency of residence; but IMHO, I agree with Cooperlola in that you will now have to seek private assurance for your health cover.

Sue.

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[quote user="eniamor"]

We very much appreciatesome help from those of you in the know.

We are inactives and have lived in France since June 2006 and rented a place whilst we looked for a propery to buy. We registered with our local CPAM and received our Securite Sociale numbers as well as our Carte Vitales after producing our E106.

We bought a property in July 2007 and thought that as we are permanent residents that we would automatically be in the CMU system but after a telephone conversation with CPAM today asking for any updates they may have as our E106 expired on Sunday. We were told that an update is expected in March and we were advised to take out private medical cover and that we are not in the CMU and that this does not happen automatically. When asking if we can apply now the answer was no. We have proof of our residancy in the form of utility bills and bank statements to show that we have paid rent but have not yet been received  a tax return. Where can we go for some sound advice, it all seems very uncertain at the moment.

HELP

Regards Eniamor

 

[/quote]

 

Eniamor

What you have been told by others who have replied is correct.  The first priority is to get some cover for your healthcare.   BUT there are other things to be done as well. This gives a broad guide http://frenchhealthissues.eu/images/flow%20chart1.pdf  and there are other options here http://frenchhealthissues.eu/E106/e106_2.htm

In your shoes I would be getting healthcover but appealing any formal decisions to exclude you from the CMU.  You were resident before the deadline of November 2007 and I would use that to support my appeal.  The website of the FHI already has guidance on appeals and I understand has more to come.

You also did not mention your ages...please remember that you are entitled to an E121 from the UK once you reach retirement age

 

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[quote user="Rupert"]How many people are in this situation? i.e are only finding out this week that they have no health cover? What a scandle! What a country![/quote]We estimate around 3.5k people, as there are (or were) over 7k E106s currently running last autumn - but nobody knows for a fact how many expired on Sunday.

Yes, it is scandalous.  That is why, as Makfai says, you should not take it lying down (whilst at the same time being sure that you are protected, in case of emergencies).

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After watching BBC1 ,The One Show, it appears thatUK residents in Spain find themselves in the same situation. I expect we will have to wait for any UK Government official to crusade the plight?  Fortunately ,we are not in the situation now having E121 which took 5 letters to get and 2 months late. My E106 after many months of letters,phone calls and fax's only gave me 5 months cover and yes, I have paid into the required 44years in the UK.

Although the system here is getting a bit of a bashing at the moment, I will say that a visit to the CPAM office in St.Malo has ALWAYS been helpful and usually problem solved.There is a lady working at this office who is English, although I might add, my better half can deal with most things quite capably in French,unlike me.

I think it pays to visit the offices,Hotel des Impot included,rather than rely on a letter. Only other advice,take every ORIGINAL document with you but only let them photo-copy them.

REGARDS.

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[quote user="eniamor"]Thanks fot your advice Rupert, We are 54 & 55 so not entitled to E121.[/quote]Nice of you to thank Rupert!!

Sorry - an expat newspaper has been passing on my phone number to those affected so I've spent most of the day on the phone giving info' to people.  I guess I'm getting a little jaded....

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[quote user="makfai"]

[quote user="eniamor"]Thanks fot your advice Rupert, We are 54 & 55 so not entitled to E121.[/quote]

You may feel that UK had a duty to tell you more when issuing your E106 or even afterwards.  In which case you may be interested in this

http://www.ombudsman.org.uk:80/improving_services/selected_cases/PCA/sc9903/c682b.html

[/quote]This is a fascinating case, Makfai, and I've been trying to digest it - on and off - since you sent this to me this morning.  Thanks. 
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[quote user="eniamor"]Thanks fot your advice Rupert, We are 54 & 55 so not entitled to E121.[/quote]

OK....Some lateral thinking is required here!

The work option described on FHI's website is interesting in more ways than one as it not only gives access to healthcare but it may reduce the time of qualification for permanent residence from 5 to 3 years.

However, I am still trying to clarify whether or not Article 17 of the EU Directive has been adopted in France.  As with so many things....there seems to be some ambiguity but there does not seem to be any discretion in the Directive for a member state not to apply it.

Article 17 says

Article 17

Exemptions for persons no longer working in the host Member State and their family members

1. By way of derogation from Article 16, the right of permanent residence in the host Member State shall be enjoyed before completion of a continuous period of five years of residence

by:

(a) workers or self-employed persons who, at the time they stop working, have reached the age laid down by the law of that Member State for entitlement to an old age pension or workers who cease paid employment to take early retirement, provided that they have been working in that Member State for at least the preceding twelve months and have resided there continuously for more than three years.

This could mean that someone could spend 2 years on an E106 and one year working then take early retirement and apply for permanent residence.

 

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