widows

[britgirl]

Widows.

I have been following the health care changes with a great deal of interest.

 As 'in actifs' and living off a govt. penion paying into URSSAf  etc and paying  top up insurance, we thought we were paying our way. Sadly in June of 2007 we discovered  that my husband had kidney cancer, and that it was also very aggressive. He died at the end of October  aged 55. .I  went to our local C.P.A.M office at Carhaix yesterday, who confirmed that as from the 31st March I would have to take out private health insurance, but also added that I would receive written confirmation of this sometime in February. I have to say that I,m sure she wasn't aware of the full implications of the latest rulings and was probably telling me as much as she knew herself..

We had not been resident in France for 5 years.

I know that I am able to live off my entitlement to my husband's pension, but I thought that my Carte Vitale  would be O.K. for a year following his death, whilst I sorted out all the necessary bits and pieces, including , hopefully,selling the house before I returned to the U.K.

I can only say that the care my husband received was superb and nothing was too much trouble. Any scans etc. were done as quickly as possible and the results made known very quickly. At all times were both treated with great coutesy and respect.

If anyone has any further information, then I'd love to here from you.

Many Thanks.

Brit girl

[makfai]

[quote user="britgirl"]Widows.

I have been following the health care changes with a great deal of interest.

 As 'in actifs' and living off a govt. penion paying into URSSAf  etc and paying  top up insurance, we thought we were paying our way. Sadly in June of 2007 we discovered  that my husband had kidney cancer, and that it was also very aggressive. He died at the end of October  aged 55. .I  went to our local C.P.A.M office at Carhaix yesterday, who confirmed that as from the 31st March I would have to take out private health insurance, but also added that I would receive written confirmation of this sometime in February. I have to say that I,m sure she wasn't aware of the full implications of the latest rulings and was probably telling me as much as she knew herself..

We had not been resident in France for 5 years.

I know that I am able to live off my entitlement to my husband's pension, but I thought that my Carte Vitale  would be O.K. for a year following his death, whilst I sorted out all the necessary bits and pieces, including , hopefully,selling the house before I returned to the U.K.

I can only say that the care my husband received was superb and nothing was too much trouble. Any scans etc. were done as quickly as possible and the results made known very quickly. At all times were both treated with great coutesy and respect.

If anyone has any further information, then I'd love to here from you.

Many Thanks.

Brit girl


[/quote]

 

Were you still on an E106 or an E121 or were you already affiliated to the CMU?

[britgirl]

We were not entitled to E106 because my husband had not paid enough class1 contributions in the relevant qualifying period. The class 3 we paid did not count. We did not have E121. I am not eligible for my state retiremnt pension for another 10 years. We were affiliated to the CMU early last year, and had the 'new style' Carte Vitales with our photos on them.

Hope that helps.

Brit girl

[Wynne Skreenwipa]

Britgirl,

Like yourself, I am fairly recently widowed. I am a pre-retirement, inactif living off savings, and very worried about my healthcare, and in  fact residency, status. While my husband was alive we had BUPA world-wide health cover from his self-owned company and never affiliated to the CMU. I lived in France full time since 2002; he did also, but worked all over the EU, spending only short times in France. His accountant sorted out all the tax details. I have 'buried my head in the sand' for some time about health issues by 'paying my way' for medical consultations and medication, but last year, ( nearly two years after his death) I tried to sort things out with DWP and CPAM. All my UK benefit entitlements have finished and I have no 'E' forms and no health cover insurance. On my last visit to the CPAM office (09/01/2008) I was told that as I "..had no resources in France I could not affiliate to  CMU...". I corrected the official by saying that I had " resources in France, but no taxable revenue." She checked with her superior, but did not change her 'advice'. I told her that as a resident of five years I should be able to affiliate: I got the Gallic shrug and that was that!

The purpose of this reply  s to post news about the latest contact with CPAM and, like you, hope that someone of our contributors has better hope and advice for me.

T I A and best of Luck

Wynne

[cooperlola]

In theory, at least, the new regulations as published on 14th December bring hope for widows, under the "accident de vie" provisions.  However, there is a huge muddle at the moment and local offices are refusing to implement the new regulations which state (amongst other things but this is the relevant stuff for the two of you):

Anybody who has lived here for 5 years or more on a legal and stable basis can contribute to and benefit from, the CMU.

Anybody who has suffered an "accident of life" such as the death of a spouse, since their arrival, can apply to remain in (and justification must be given for rejecting you.)

Anybody already paying into the CMU can remain in it.

But the rules are not being implemented in many places, for various reasons, most of them bureaucratic.  We are actively seeking clarification and are in contact with the UK Ambassador in Paris, and the Health Ministry here to try to get this shambolic mess sorted out.

However, Wynne, you may indeed be in a dodgy position for two reasons : 1.  You should have had state health cover up until now because you were legally bound to and b) you should have been filling in a tax return here.  Therefore, the authorities might well say that you do not have five years' legal residence as you appear - at least on the surface - to have been breaking two laws here.  I don't know if your husband's accountant is English or French but he may have been giving your husband poor advice.  If he's French, then you should have a good case to make against him if (as it appears from the little I can glean from your post) he has been advising you incorrectly.

For up to date news on what is happening vis a vis the new rules, please keep an eye on our website at

www.frenchhealthissues.eu

If either of you wishes to discuss this more privately, please e-mail us at [email protected]

[britgirl]

Thankyou Cooperlola for your prompt reply.

I have one more question which I hope you can help me with. It is not personal, so may be of interest to others.

I am returnig to live in the U.K. anyway. At the moment I don' t know when, as I have to sell my house first, and that could take some considerable time. Assuming that I'm not allowed to stay in the C.M.U. I could be back living in the U.K.  from April  and reregistering with them for health cover etc.and using this house as a holiday home, until it is sold.  I will naturally inform all relevant  French authorities of the change of use to the house. How long can I visit this house, without incurring the wrath of the French Authorites. I know that all bills for utilites and Habitation taxes etc have to be paid. I live in a fairly rural area so I know that it would be very easy for people to check on how often the house is being used

Thank you

Brit girl

[cooperlola]

It is a good question.  I am no accountant or expert but my understanding is that you can holiday here, provided it is for less than 6 months in each calendar year.  However, as you have been a French resident up until now, and I believe that there will be a lot more scrutiny on both sides of the Channel, you will have to be very careful.  I would suggest that the primary thing is to be able to prove that you are resident in the UK - ie you will  need a stable domicile there, and you will have to pay taxes there.  To my mind, it is the proof that you are resident in the UK which counts for the most - so the return of your Carte Vitale, a declaration to the tax authorites that you are a British resident once again, etc is probably the major step.  Also, if your house is on the market for sale, this - to me - is also good proof of true intent.

We are assured by the Health ministry in the UK that the NHS will be available to UK nationals, immediately upon return, provided they can prove a stable residence there.

Hopefully, there will be other posters on here who have made the move back to the UK who can give you more facts.  Or better still, you will be allowed to remain in the CMU ( which I believe you should).  The Embassy has told us today that the new rules will be clarifed "very soon" (their words.)

[britgirl]

Thanks again for the info. I'm also looking at the cost of private health (and travel) insurance with my bank. Hopefully by the end of February, I will be able to make a decision about my future.

Brit girl.

[makfai]

[quote user="britgirl"]We were not entitled to E106 because my husband had not paid enough class1 contributions in the relevant qualifying period. The class 3 we paid did not count. We did not have E121. I am not eligible for my state retiremnt pension for another 10 years. We were affiliated to the CMU early last year, and had the 'new style' Carte Vitales with our photos on them.

Hope that helps.

Brit girl
[/quote]

 

As Coops said the new rules allow people who were affiliated to the CMU before 23 November 2007 to retain their affiliation but the local CPAM offices are in a state of confusion over this.

There is no reason why you cannot return to them with a copy of the information contained here http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm and in the attachments

	Liste de questions-réponses.
	Circulaire N°DSS/DACI/2007/418 du 23 novembre 2007 relative au bénéfice de la couverture maladie universelle de base (CMU) et de la couverture maladie universelle complémentaire (CMUc) des ressortissants de l’Union Européenne, de l’Espace économique européen et de la Suisse résidant ou souhaitant résider en France en tant qu’inactifs, étudiants ou demandeurs d’emploi Annexe 1 de la circulaire : Règles du droit au séjour des citoyens européens et conséquences au regard de l’accès à la CMU

together with a covering letter requesting that they confirm your continuing eligibility as your CV (number etc....) was issued on ....date... which was before 23 November 2007.

I would also encourage anyone with queries to contact FHI as Copps suggested.

[Wynne Skreenwipa]

[quote user="cooperlola"]
.............However, Wynne, you may indeed be in a dodgy position for two reasons : 1.  You should have had state health cover up until now because you were legally bound to and b) you should have been filling in a tax return here.  Therefore, the authorities might well say that you do not have five years' legal residence as you appear - at least on the surface - to have been breaking two laws here.  I don't know if your husband's accountant is English or French but he may have been giving your husband poor advice.  If he's French, then you should have a good case to make against him if (as it appears from the little I can glean from your post) he has been advising you incorrectly.........

[/quote]

Coops,
Thank you for your reply and the info. contained in it. I have, belatedly, submitted a revenue tax declaration, in my own name, for FY2006. I have some documentation from the notaire and our french bank relating to the settlement of my husbands estate in 2005, which include a declaration, I had to sign, that I had no revenue for that year. I have not, however, submitted a 'declaration of revenu' for FY2005, can I ask if you think its too late to correct that?

As for the health cover, I was sent a E121 after my husbamd died, which was for the period when I was entitled to bereavement allowance, but that has expired, and I never did anything with it, anyway!(What an ostrich I was). I have to sort out my health care cover, I don't suppose I will be able to 'retrospectively' get into the CMU, (even though I have proof of residence for 5 years etc) therefore must buy PHI and see if there's some way I can earn an income to pay for it! (but, perhaps, as I'm apparently an illegal resident, that won't be possible? Oh dear!)'
Anyway, a big thank you for the comments you made, unique to my situation. The various websites contain a lot of advice, but it takes a lot of sorting through to get info relevant to my case. Your remarks will help me focus on the areas to tackle. I may email FHI as well.

Regards, Wynne.

 

[cooperlola]

I'm sorry if I sounded alarmist, but it's just something to consider.  My own experience is that in fact the tax offices can be very sympathetic, and given your circumstances, you could very well be OK.  My advice would be to go and have a chat with them and lay all your cards on the table. You may not even have a tax liablility, per se, for '05 but in theory should have submitted a form, that is all I am pointing out here.

  The residency qualification for CMU merely asks you to prove "legal and stable residence" - it is not yet known how stringent the authorities will be and it's likely, as with everything else in this sorry mess, to vary from CPAM to CPAM.  Personally, I would be as open and honest as you can. If anybody qualifies under the "accident de vie" provisions it is you and (dare I say it without everybody jumping up and down in anger!) you can play on the often mysoginist nature of French authorities by using the "my husband took care of the finances" card, whether this was true or not.  I suspect that, if you deal with the right person, you will find they will fall over backwards to help you.

The CPAMs are going to have to deal with a lot of people who are - in theory - illegal, as many will have been so since last Sunday.  As you've been here for over five years, you have a pretty strong case apart from some hiccups on the tax front which -as I say - may well be overlooked.  It is simply something we do not know yet - as even the five year rule is not being enforced by many CPAMs yet.  We are assured that the message get through "soon".

In the worst case scenario, I do know of a very good value policy should you need PHI, and Ninthace on here has produced a useful spreadsheet for you to make comparisons on others available.  Please pm me or e-mail the site for details.  Meanwhile, give CMU  a go first, you have absolutely nothing to lose and potentially a good deal to gain.  And at UK state retirement age, you will probably qualify once again for an E121 anyway.

You are in a very difficult situation and I'm sure that the authorities will understand that.  The last thing you need after a bereavement is all this hassle with French bureaucracy, but they can be very kind and helpful when they want to be.  Bon courage.[:)]

[Sunday Driver]

There is unlikely to be any problem with the tax office (or the CPAM), given that the male of the household is usually the principal declarant with the wife being merely part of his tax foyer....[;-)]

 

 

[Wynne Skreenwipa]

Sunday driver/Cooperlola

I have returned from visiting my brother and sister-in-law in UK, and have a scheme in hand to help me with my current difficulties in managing my finances pro-tem. I wonder if you can give some info regarding income and capital gains rules here in France?

My brother and sister-in-law are financially readily able to 'loan' or 'gift' me about £5000 p.a. to help me remain in France. They are my only relatives and are sole beneficiaries of my will. They like to holiday in France and my only asset (my property) is quite capable of allowing them extensive use, without impacting on our 'mutually privacy'. This 'family deal' therefore provides me with some money and them with a current and future interest in France.

Notwithstanding all the possible pitfalls with family deals cf. legal agreements, the info I am seeking is :- what tax revenue implications will the 'loan' or 'gift' of this money have? Do I have to make any declarations to the DGI or should I make some pre-agreements to avoid having to declare it?

Many thanks in advance

Wynne

 

[cooperlola]

This is not my forte at all.  Mr Driver will give you far better advice than I can.

However, if your property allows them, in effect, seperate accommodation, then I would have thought that a rental agreement might work?  Others will advise, I am sure.

Bon courage, nice to know your family is supporting you.[:)]

[Tony F Dordogne]

But surely the gift - however described - would be part of the world wide income and therefore would have to be declared?

[cooperlola]

True, Tony.  However, not knowing the circumstances, I suspect the income tax would be quite low.  But an income might generate some health cover?  As I say, not my field.