BREAKING NEWS ON EXPAT HEALTH COVER

[tigerfeet]

the proof is in the pudding

so I download form 3710 from here and it goes in the post today

I will report back

 

[ali-cat]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

If we accept that the decision on the part of the French government to reverse the present situation was influenced by the strong arguments put forward - it is unfair to withdraw heathcare rights from persons already settled and legally resident in France and correctly affiliated for state healthcare under the prevailing rules at the time - then there should be no distinction between current holders of an E106 and those without.  

If the French now acknowledge that it was unfair to exclude one group of settled residents (CMU), then it'd equally unfair to exclude another group of settled residents (E106) who are in exactly the same position. The principle established by the argument remains the same, regardless of the number on someone's form.

I realise we are in the game of 'interpreting an interpretation' but I'm not convinced that all is lost for the E106 people.

[/quote]

Perhaps the answer lies in the CMU legislation rather than any arguments put forward,  principled decisions, or any rational process for that matter. The following link hopefully gives an accurate summary of the conditions for being allowed to access CMU :

http://www.healthcare-france.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=50

To summarise you can access CMU if :

1. You otherwise have no entitlement to state healthcare,  through the various caisses or holding a current E106 or E121;

2. Resident in France or DOM for at least three months (now 6 months I believe);

3. Compliance with French legislation on Foreigners' residence    

Case 1 - Already afilliated to CMU.  Condition 1 is met, condition 2 is met. as for condition 3,   the new French law on immigration requires that you have sufficient resources not to become a burden and comprehensive health cover.  The French authorities don't seem to be exercised about sufficient resources to date so lets ignore it.  As for comprehensive health cover CMU membership meets this requirement.  Therefore all three requirements for CMU membership are met and there is no provision under the CMU legislation to eject you.

Case 2 - E106 (pre retirement E121) expired and not affilliated yet to CMU.  Condition 1 is met and condition 2 is met.  As for condition 3, under the new French rules you are required to have comprehensive health cover.  On expiry of your E form you do not meet this requirement and therefore do not comply with French legislation on Foreigners' residence and cannot join CMU.  You are therefore required to take out private health insurance.

Cockeyed or what?

I suspect the reason the French authorities are barring E form holders from CMU is because they can.  The reason they are not expelling those already affilliated to CMU is because,  under the CMU legislation, they can't.

All in the spirit of free movement and european integration of course.

Mr Cat

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cat]

Oooh look, it's in the Telegraph now, and the dispute will be resolved tomorrow ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/29/wexpat129.xml

Officials said that "progress" had been made towards resolving the issue, although the final terms were still being discussed.

[AnOther]

Perhaps we should distribute this to the CPAM offices Cat and bring the matter to a close [Www]

Q: Do French ministries really work at night ?

Anybody else still intreagued as to where this oft quoted figure of 7000 comes from ? 

[Cat]

I see that hairdresser woman and her clan are mentioned too [:)]  They do get about, don't they.

[Boiling a frog]

7000 is the number of people in France with E106's,came from the Dept of W & P.

 

The French quote 30000 people affected who are in CMU so they are not including the 7000 with E106's

 

From a debate in the assembly regarding the finance law for 2008 for social security

En application de ces dispositions, qui ont fait l’objet d’une lettre ministérielle du 20 juillet 2007, un ressortissant communautaire inactif a le droit de séjourner en France pour une durée supérieure à trois mois s’il dispose d’une assurance maladie et de ressources suffisantes. Il ne peut plus prétendre au bénéfice de la CMU de base et de la CMUC mais peut entrer dans le champ de l’aide médicale d’État sous condition de ressources. Des instructions ont été diffusées en ce sens le 2 août 2007 par la Caisse nationale d’assurance maladie ; 30 000 ressortissants britanniques, notamment, seraient concernés, et des protestations se sont élevées.

[woolybanana]

What does this mean please, in context.?

Il ne peut plus prétendre au bénéfice de la CMU de base et de la CMUC mais peut entrer dans le champ de l’aide médicale d’État sous condition de ressources.

I think it says they can have medical treatment if they pay.

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

7000 is the number of people in France with E106's,came from the Dept of W & P.

 

The French quote 30000 people affected who are in CMU so they are not including the 7000 with E106's

 

From a debate in the assembly regarding the finance law for 2008 for social security

En application de ces dispositions, qui ont fait l’objet d’une lettre ministérielle du 20 juillet 2007, un ressortissant communautaire inactif a le droit de séjourner en France pour une durée supérieure à trois mois s’il dispose d’une assurance maladie et de ressources suffisantes. Il ne peut plus prétendre au bénéfice de la CMU de base et de la CMUC mais peut entrer dans le champ de l’aide médicale d’État sous condition de ressources. Des instructions ont été diffusées en ce sens le 2 août 2007 par la Caisse nationale d’assurance maladie ; 30 000 ressortissants britanniques, notamment, seraient concernés, et des protestations se sont élevées.

[/quote]Thanks BaF, Tip of the iceberg then !

 

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

What does this mean please, in context.?

Il ne peut plus prétendre au bénéfice de la CMU de base et de la CMUC mais peut entrer dans le champ de l’aide médicale d’État sous condition de ressources.

I think it says they can have medical treatment if they pay.

 

[/quote]

 

 

No it does'nt It say that they cannot benefit from CMU B or CMU C but may be able to get Aide Medicale détat )(AME) depending on their resources

 

You can only get AME if your income is below a certain very low level.

[Boiling a frog]

British Embassy has changed their advice re health care in France

Access to the French healthcare system for early retirees from other EU countries (updated 29/11/07)

The Embassy is still in regular contact with the French Health Ministry and is representing people's concerns regarding access to the French healthcare system for early retirees from other EU countries already residing in France.

We understand that a revised statement to clarify the situation is due very shortly from the French Health Ministry, at which point we will update our website information.

 

The announcement must be imminent

[Jay]

Got a letter from my MEP Graham Walson (SW Region) today. It's a bit late but at least it shows they have been doing their job and it is the only one (of six contacted) that has had the decency to reply. The covering page (Written Declaration by) names Mary Honeyball, Proinsias De Rossa and Bill Newton Dunn. No doubt others have received/posted similar results but I thought I would post it anyway. Written declaration on health care provision for European citizens residing in another Member State The European Parliament,  - having regard to Rule 116 of its Rules of Procedure, A. whereas EU law upholds the right to freedom of movement and freedom of residence across the European Union,   B. whereas access to health care is of fundamental importance to all citizens,  1. Recognises the fundamental principle of reciprocity of health care provision across the European Union;  2. Expresses grave concern that some EU citizens not born in France but legally resident there are being denied state health care provision despite paying all relevant taxes:  3. Recognises that private health care may not be available or affordable for citizens with disabilities or those with existing conditions;  4. Calls on Member States to uphold the principle of reciprocity of health care provision; further Calls on Member States not to make changes to health care provision that will deny EU citizens who are non-nationals access to state health care;  5. Calls on the European Commission to undertake a review of the manner in which Member States generally are operating the principal of reciprocity of health care provision to ensure that all Member States are complying with their obligations under the Treaties in this regard; 6. Instructs its President to forward this declaration, together with the names of the signatories, to the Council, the Commission and the governments and parliaments of the Member States.

[Cat]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

British Embassy has changed their advice re health care in France

Access to the French healthcare system for early retirees from other EU countries (updated 29/11/07)

The Embassy is still in regular contact with the French Health Ministry and is representing people's concerns regarding access to the French healthcare system for early retirees from other EU countries already residing in France.

We understand that a revised statement to clarify the situation is due very shortly from the French Health Ministry, at which point we will update our website information.

 

The announcement must be imminent

[/quote]

This is what they were saying yesterday, and have been saying for some time...

The Embassy is still in regular contact with the French Health Ministry and is representing people's concerns regarding access to the French healthcare system for early retirees from other EU countries already residing in France.

We understand that a revised statement to clarify the situation is due shortly from the French Health Ministry. In the meantime, according to the French Government's latest published statement the position is:

 

I think they must be inundated with requests for more information following recent news announcements, as the only thing that has changed since yesterday is the "at which point we will update our website information. " bit

 

 

[Boiling a frog]

They are saying very shortly      and also

There is no longer a link to the French Government web site

 

Which would suggest to me that the announcement is imminent

[Cat]

I agree, the Telegraph said that the dispute would be resolved tomorrow.  I am checking all research links I have, but so far nothing.  Even the appointment agenda for the French Minister of Health isn't giving anything away.  Guess we'll just have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[makfai]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

They are saying very shortly      and also

There is no longer a link to the French Government web site

Which would suggest to me that the announcement is imminent

[/quote]

It's sooooooooooooo exciting only 3+ years to get an announcement[+o(] 

[Ron Avery]

Just when I thought that the Aveyron CPAMs had been sensible and not issued any letters notifying people that they were being booted out of the CMU in March 2008, until the issue had been resolved, they today have excelled themselves by issuing the letter together with another one adjusting CMU contributions to the end in March 2008.

The letter acknowledges receipt of residency documentation and is probably very much the standard letter that other departments have issued, " take your CV to your CPAM for updating"  find alternative healthcare assurance etc.  So I phoned them up at Rodez and explained that there was an announcement due and it was widely expected that people who were already in the CMU would be allowed to stay in.  They said that they knew there was an imminent announcement but had decided to issue the letters to let people know they had cover until the 31 March.[:-))] When I asked if it was necessary to update the CV,  find other medical assurance etc, they said it was best to wait for news......[:'(]

[Joshua]

This from the Conservatives Abroad Website

Health Care Reprieve for expats in France

A dispute over the provision of health cover for

Britons living in France will be resolved tomorrow, the health ministry

in Paris announced last night. Officials said that “progress” had been

made towards resolving the issue, although the final terms were still

being discussed.

 The French are reported to have agreed to cover those

who had registered with CMU, the state health care system, by Sept 30

this year.President Nicolas Sarkozy ended cover for those who have not

reached retirement age - 60 for women and 65 for men. The decision

would have affected Britons who had retired early and moved to

France.The main issue has been whether care should be extended to those

who have access to French health care through the British E106 form,

but are not yet in the French system.

 Whatever the outcome tomorrow Conservatives

Abroad will continue to fight for the right of British expats. If it is

announced that those living in France currently accessing healthcare

using and E106 will be excluded from the system we will continue our

campaign to have them included in the system.

Who said tomorrow never comes !

Joshua[:D]

[AnOther]

Surely proof that a pre-qualification for every fonciere is a Masters degree in obsfucation [:D] [:D]

[Boiling a frog]

 

The Conservatives Abroad cannot even be bothered to write their own announcements They just cut and paste from the Telegraph

as below

 

A dispute over the provision of health cover for Britons living in France will be resolved tomorrow, the health ministry in Paris announced last night.

Officials said that "progress" had been made towards resolving the issue, although the final terms were still being discussed.

 

The French are reported to have agreed to cover those who had registered with CMU, the state health care system, by Sept 30 this year.

President Nicolas Sarkozy ended cover for those who have not reached retirement age - 60 for women and 65 for men. The decision would have affected Britons who had retired early and moved to France.

[Joshua]

ErnieY, If I knew what that means I might agree

I would have put it.

Desperate to get brownie points or votes !

Joshua[:D]

[AnOther]

Just exercising my vocabluary Joshua (and I left school (and home) on the same day at age 15 and without an exam to my name!)

Think obscure...........

obsfucation
 
To totally obscure with non-germane information in a verbose manner, with the intent to provide a non-answer, and provide total befuddlement.

Any politician worth his salt is an artist in obsfucation.

Government bureaucrats are masters of obsfucatory behaviour.

In such situations Google is your friend [;-)]

If anyone can think of a better word to decribe the situation I'd be very glad to hear it (and add it to my vocabluary) [;-)]

 

[Ron Avery]

"The Conservatives Abroad cannot even be bothered to write their own announcements They just cut and paste from the Telegraph"

That makes a change its normally the other way round[:D].  Wonder if they would be so keen if we didn't have a vote[Www]

On a serious note what happens to those who are in the CMU but have not been able to prove residency because they were told, allegedly, by their tax offices not to file tax returns as they paid tax in the UK?

[Boiling a frog]

When you apply for CMU the application form asks for your Revenue fiscal de reference which is only obtained by completing a tax return .

Now the first application after the E106 runs out is usually made in the January and the previous years revenue fiscal de reference is not available,as it usually appears the middle of August.

So you may get away with not having one for the first application but the rules have tightened up even before this latest debachle and you now need to prove 6 months residence (usually by way of a tax return)

The simple answer is never belive what one foncionaire tells you or one could end up stuffed

[AnOther]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

The simple answer is never belive what one foncionaire tells you or one could end up stuffed

[/quote]Oh that it were that simple BaF, what is one supposed to do, only believe them when it's what you want to hear ?

Isn't this the reason why you now have to register with a specific doctor, to stop you doing the rounds until you found one who agreed with what you thought was wrong with you ?

The not so simple answer is to know the answers before the fonciere gets a chance to pull the wool over your eyes.

[krusty]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Now the first application after the E106 runs out is usually made in the January and the previous years revenue fiscal de reference is not available,as it usually appears the middle of August.

[/quote]

Rather than wait untill my E106 runs out in Jan2008 I thought it best to apply now and so have attached my tax avis for 2006 .... am I right or wrong ?