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Dodgy Tenant Update?


Pixietoadstool
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

thanks for the enquiry.  I have not been on the forum for ages.  He has GONE!  Due, I think, to fear of being shopped to the gendarmes should he try to drive (being without a permis).  Ha ha!  And what is more, his mum came and took his last bits, and even offered to clean, but that is another story!  However, now we have been to a huissier and been to the Tribunal d'instance and got a ruling in our favour.  So are just awaiting what might happen next.  But we also have a few ideas up our own sleeves.  House is empty, bookings are really good, and the sun is shining!  But such phrases as 'never again' cross our lips frequently!  Unfortunately for the no doubt thousands or millions of quite normal people renting houses, this experience has coloured our opinion, and it is definitely NEVER AGAIN! 

Thanks again for everyone's KIND support.

Fil

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So glad you posted Fil.  I will keep my fingers crossed that one day you might see some of the money owed to you.

Did you ever get the smell out?  I know you were having a hard time with that.  Must have been really awful.

 

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Fil

We had a long discussion on the phone at the start of this episode, I am really pleased to hear that the issue is now resolved.

Given the benefit of hindsight do you think that you could express here what you would have done differently rather than "never again"?

Editted: Also perhaps some information on how you go about working with the hussier, tribunal etc would be equally usefull for others, but of course the best is to have the knowledge to hopefully avoid the dodgy tenants in the first place.

I know from our discussion that there are some important lessons to be learnt which would benefit others as opposed to putting them off. I really didn't want to air them on the forum at the time as I was very sympathetic to your situation but perhaps now is the time?

Once again congratulations and a word of advice from someone (me) who has recently had a dodgy tenant in the UK:

I didn't pursue the tenant for my losses as it would have only have cost me time, money  and further frustration, now that she and her family have gone and I have repaired and redecorated, I prefer to reflect on how lucky I was that it was only for 6 months and how much worse the house would be if it had continued longer.

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Hi JR,

one of the major things I have learnt is that whoever you ask (qualified included) you get a different answer!  We went to the Huissier (very nice guy with alot of information at his fingertips, or so it appears) and he gloomily forecast that despite the end of the Bail (contract) arriving, our Dodgy Lodger (like the term!) would be able to stay on 'sans titre etc' even though there would no longer be a Bail covering his being in our house.  HOWEVER, my poor friend who is being kicked out by her mum and step dad, went to see an Avocat (I went too to help with translations etc) and HE said that as she had no Bail, she had no rights and could indeed be chucked out!  So those two opinions seem a bit at odds.

To get a huissier, just look in the Pages Jaunes and ring your local one up.  They only do a certain area, so the fact that now the Dodgy Lodger has decamped elsewhere (into another department we think) might be a problem.  And it appears that WE must find his new address (not easy) as this is not covered in his remit!  Not sure how he wants us to do this, but we'll give it a go!  He made us an appointment at the Tribunal d'Instance (I think this is a bit like the Small Claims Court) but initially this was just to get him out.  However, he was gone before the appointment, but we had to go anyway to ask for our Huissier expenses to be awarded to us. 

Our hearts sank as we saw that the court was crowded and evidently everyone had the same early time to come!  However, the judges waded through the pile of folders on their desk at a great rate and it was soon our turn.  We were asked to approach their desk (if you don't speak good french take someone who does, but we do thankfully) and the judge was really nice.  We told him why we were there (just to get expenses so far) and that he still owed us rent, and he said that was all, took our dossier off us, and said we would get notification in the post.  Which we now have (took about ten days maximum to come).  So now we wait, I think.  We were a bit nervous we would have to stand up in front of everyone else and speak, but no, we were called forwards, and that was it.  My friend's avocat was there (we had seen him the day before) and he smiled at us nicely, which made us feel a bit more at home I think.  Not a nasty experience at all, and actually quite interesting.

My advice. 

1.  Firstly, only let long term (instead of holiday rentals) if you truly have to.

2.  Secondly, get a very well versed avocat or notaire or someone like that to do the Bail - NOT an immobilier.

3.  Don't take single men.

4.  Make sure every thing you want is included in the Bail.  Get a very well educated french friend who has already dealt with lettings to read your Bail for you and make sure there are no loop holes.

5.  Don't take any children.  You'll NEVER get them out.

6.  Take a HUGE deposit.

7.  Make sure the caution is GUARANTEED by someone else.

8.  Use an agency (okay you don't get all the rent) that gives you an insurance of getting the rent if the tenant doesn't pay up.

9.  Check all references yourself - do NOT rely on the agency to do that for you!

10. Go back as far as you can with the prospective tenant's history!  Ask to see his bank account!

11. Check with his employer as to how long his contract is actually for!  They can be very short in France.  Check the job is not going to finish whilst he is your tenant.  Check the employer is happy with him.

12.  Lastly, only do all of this if you truly have no choice.  Because all non furnished tenancies in France are for 3 years and you will have a job getting them out any earlier, or even after the three years, and if you sell, they will have the option to buy!  Furnished are for 1 year, no matter what you want written in the Bail, and you appear to have less rights yourself over these than you do for unfurnished ones!

Above all, remember that the tenant is king, you, the landlord, have far less rights than he has, and as you are a property owner, the judge can actually (our huissier told us) rule that as you obviously are rich, you don't NEED the rent!  So the tenant can stay.

BEWARE.

Fil

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[quote user="Fil"]

6.  Take a HUGE deposit.

Fil [/quote]

Whilst I am very sympathetic towards you and the awful experience you have had with your tenant, I feel I must say that there are lots of very good tenants out there - my OH and I are amongst them! So are some of our friends - in this case a French family - who live in a rented house just behind us. In our case we had to rent privately as we could not provide the French credit history nor the French references that would be required when renting through an agency - English credentials are not widely recognised here. Renting privately is, IMHO, always a more precarious situation - for both renter and landlord and not one that we took on lightly. Perhaps it is like airplanes - you really only ever hear about the ones that crash, not the 1000's of successful flights.

On a different note I think it is a legal requirement that the deposit is not more than the equivalent of 2 months rent. Then a month in advance can be asked for separately, with that cheque not being cashed until the etat des lieu has been agreed and signed IIRC.

Sue

 

 

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Quote FIL" To get a huissier, just look in the Pages Jaunes and ring your local one up.  They only do a certain area, so the fact that now the Dodgy Lodger has decamped elsewhere (into another department we think) might be a problem.  And it appears that WE must find his new address (not easy) as this is not covered in his remit!  ..................... "

 

Well done you.  No doubt he will pick on some other kind soul to take advantage of.   But hopefully you will  have made him think it is not that easy next time and others can look out for him.   And thanks for posting an interesting topic despite the problems. [:D]

Georgina

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[quote user="Spg"][quote user="Fil"]

6.  Take a HUGE deposit.

Fil [/quote]

Whilst I am very sympathetic towards you and the awful experience you have had with your tenant, I feel I must say that there are lots of very good tenants out there - my OH and I are amongst them! So are some of our friends - in this case a French family - who live in a rented house just behind us. In our case we had to rent privately as we could not provide the French credit history nor the French references that would be required when renting through an agency - English credentials are not widely recognised here. Renting privately is, IMHO, always a more precarious situation - for both renter and landlord and not one that we took on lightly. Perhaps it is like airplanes - you really only ever hear about the ones that crash, not the 1000's of successful flights.

On a different note I think it is a legal requirement that the deposit is not more than the equivalent of 2 months rent. Then a month in advance can be asked for separately, with that cheque not being cashed until the etat des lieu has been agreed and signed IIRC.

Sue

[/quote]

3 months of rent in the hand certainly gives a measure of protection even during the winter months, unfortunately Fil allowed this tenant to occupy the property having paid rent in advance for only the last 8 days of November and with the promise of paying the "caution" and rent the following month.

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[quote user="J.R."]

3 months of rent in the hand certainly gives a measure of protection even during the winter months, unfortunately Fil allowed this tenant to occupy the property having paid rent in advance for only the last 8 days of November and with the promise of paying the "caution" and rent the following month. [/quote]

Aahh - that explains a lot. But I thought Fil had a bail arranged through an agent immobilier? Where we are no AI would have allowed Fil to accept less than asked for by law as the rent/deposit etc passes through their office before being credited to the owner.

Sue

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  • 1 month later...
I am beginning to think that my landlords are taking a big risk with their long-term winter lettings.  Of course, they  are very glad fo the income, but they use just a home-made contract for the furnished gites, letting for three or four months.  I am on the second year of my tenancy with them and whilst I would never dream of doing anything dishonourable it appears I could just sit tight and it would be very hard for them to get me out.  They hold two months rent as a deposit (£1,000) and I can give them three months notice at any time.  I found them on a site advertising long-term lets, but they weren't actually thinking of someone as semi-permanent as myself, more the usual winter lets.  They only let to ex-pats but I don't think that is much protection!

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  • 1 month later...

How awful for you to have such a problem, I have not read the saga from the beginning but worked out that you had a tenant who had not paid rent and you had a job to get him out.

What does conern me however is the jaundiced view of some of the replies. We would love to live in France, cannot afford to buy but would rent, we have rented in the UK for the past 7 years and never been in arrears. We would have difficulty in providing a large deposit, but we could provide rock solid references......................................as a retired couple we live on a limited income......our quaility of life would be so much better in France, the food is far better quality and resonable. A small garden would allow us to be able to grow most of our veg, as we do here on our allotment............please do not tar everyone with the same brush.........there are some decent people still about.

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I wouldn't worry, toots.  From memory, Fil was renting out a gite property for the winter only, in between short summer lets (I think this is right, Fil?).  However, many French people rent as a matter of course so there are plenty of long-term lets available if you do your homework.  I introduced some retired friends to a local farmer here and they are renting a little fermette.  Both parties fully expect the arrangement to last for years to come and are very happy with the situation.
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[quote user="toots"]

...as a retired couple we live on a limited income......our quaility of life would be so much better in France, the food is far better quality and resonable. A small garden would allow us to be able to grow most of our veg, as we do here on our allotment............please do not tar everyone with the same brush.........there are some decent people still about. [/quote]

Yes, exactly - there are loads of decent people about who rent - we do. If eventually we decide to stay - been here nearly 2 years already - then we would hope to buy. But property here in southern Morbihan is very expensive, because the cost of land is so very high - so we are treading very gently and will wait and see what happens to prices here. I don't have much hope of them falling though, as people regard this area of outstanding naturalness and beauty to be paradise and paradise costs a lot, I am sure!

Sue [Www]

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