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Long Term Incapacity Benefit and Medicals in France


Shane
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A friend is on long term incapacity benefit here in France and has just received a letter from the UK to say he has to go for a medical in France (Limoges) and will be notified of date etc in due course. Has anyone had a medical here in France and did they find it necessary to take a translator with them. His french is quite good but wonders what to expect, how technical the questions are etc and was the medical successful or not. Any information much appreciated.
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So long as your friend has some French this should not be a problem as there is always a different way for the doctor to ask the same question. Presumably your friend has an incapacity which may deteriorate or improve over a period of time, hence why they have been asked to have a medical.

Since 1995 if you have an "incurable" disability i e it will never get better only worse, you have not been asked to have these periodic appraisals.

Our only recent experience is when my wife was asked to attend for a medical at COTOREP when applying for a blue parking permit. After asking what her disability was the examination took approximately five minutes and consisted of the standard tests for her disability so it is highly likely that your friend will already have undergone the same examination previously.

Hope this helps.

Benjamin 

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Thanks for that. The complaint is arthritis which is unlikely to improve really. Underwent a medical in the uk but that was 5 years ago, hence not sure what to expect now. Full support from his french doctor however when he receives medical questionnaires from the uk to complete, they come in french and english and he fills one part in and the doctor the other. So fingers crossed everything will be fine.
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If your friend has copies of the reports their French doctor has completed then these may be worthwhile taking with them when an appointment is eventually set. If they have any other written medical records, even in English, then take these to the appointment also.

Benjamin 

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  Details on the changes to medicals bought about by the new

"Pathways Scheme", plus an

overview of the planned changes from 2008 (when INCAP will be totally

abolished) can be read on the DWP website

(http://www.dwp.gov.uk/index.htm) if you do a thorough search using

search

words such as "pathways", "Incapacity benefit" etc. Details from all

the green and white papers on the subject which are available

on that website.

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I went along for such a medical, last year, the Dr was very good, spoke some English, was very polite and took her time with her examination.  Think it is usually every 5 years.....mind, it took them a year to organise the medical, in the end I told Newcastle where to send me, giving them the address and phone number.  They had no idea and wanted me to travel a 200 mile round trip to see a Dr that appeared on their list.  Like no way.  They said there is no CPAM in your town, er, sorry, I drive past the office every week, so I think there might be....  All sorted eventually.  Anyway, it wasn't a problem, just a lot of form filling.  I took along all my letters from Consultants in the UK, which she read through.

I would make sure you get to see the nearest CPAM Dr, or they may ask you to travel half way round France as well. Most local hospitals have a CPAM Dr who visits or has a clinic there.  You can claim for travel costs, which I did, still waiting for that!   My GP fills in the usual yearly forms, whilst laughing hysterically at the French translation that runs down the side of each question.  Usually she scribbles most of it out and corrects it.  "who writes this" she asks........."It is completely incomprehensible to a native French person".  Goodness knows what Newcastle think !

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I was advised to apply for a blue parking permit, forms duly completed, weeks went by and they decided not to issue one as they said you have to be 80% incapacitated and I wasn't quite at that level, never mind the fact that I cannot walk up an incline without nearly ending up in a heap.  But, according to my new carte vitale I am invalid category blue.........whatever that is.......??
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Hi Agenais,

Being an ex civil servant (for my sins) I've still got a number of friends who work for the DWP, who keep me abreast of changes etc - your experience is by no means unusual. According to one of my acquaintances (who is quite senior in the Department) there is increasing pressure on staff and doctors to find reasons at the "review" stage to reduce/refuse entitlement to INCAP, let alone perceived "extras" such as parking permits etc!

This even extends to people (such as yourself) who are clearly severely disabled  - all part of the push to reduce claims before the benefit is totally abolished in 24 months time. Also, the whole basis of the medicals & the questions asked has been changed quite recently & the old points system for "passing or failing" medicals (via the Adjudication Officer) has been re-appraised.

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Hi Penny

Thanks for your reply.  It was the local Mairies secretary that said I should apply for a parking permit, from COTOREP.  She was great, helping with the forms, she even said I should claim for other benefits, but I said  no.  She was dissapointed when they finally said no.  I will just have to park on the flat.  I presume that E121 forms and IB benefits that were issued for life, several years ago, are to be honoured.  I understand that benefit payments are being tightened up in the UK.  I have always found staff at Newcastle to be very good with me and likewise I cannot fault the CPAM service here, save the paperwork being a tad exhaustive at times.  I must ask what invalidity category blue is, as this is a recent addition to my carte vitale, on top of the 100% cover for 2 long term illness's.   

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Hi

Interesting about the invalidity category blue.  My CPAM statement now appears with a blue stripe down the side since I was put on 100% cover for my illnesses - my problem is that I don't seem to be getting any of the medication  I need 100%, I'm still on 60/70% and using my Mutuelle for top up, my blood condition and the three other linked conditions all 'qualify' for 100%.

I did hear that you have to get a prescription on a different form than the usual one - anybody else have experience of the system can clarify this for me.  CPAM gave me a 'don't worry, everything's ok but we can't access your medical records, they're secret' response when I asked them.

 

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Hi Tony

Usually, the Dr either prints or writes out the prescription, which is set out in two parts, the top part being for medications under affection longue duree, the second part for other medications if required, for which you would normally pay a % towards.  This applies to blood tests, x-rays, etc, linked to your illness, they should all be filled in on the affection longue duree form.   Has your GP filled out the a form for the CPAM, indicating the illness /s you are covered for 100%?  This form lasts for three years before renewal is required.   I find you always get a better response if you can visit the CPAM in person, rather than call the free phone number.  The lady at our local office even said "you didn't try and get information using the platform phone number did you, a waste of time"?   I have always had a good response from asking online, usually a person from the cpam office rings you back within a day or so to answer your questions.  There are different categories for invalidite, but you should have your essential medications and associated tests covered 100%   

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Hi Agenais

Many thanks for your reply.  I did go to the CPAM office to discuss this and they seemed as non-plussed as me, hey-ho.

My consultant has filled in all the appropriate forms and I've received the attestation from CPAM saying I'm on 100% for ten years.

Next time I go to the GP for medication - every 3 months - I'll make sure I get the long-term prescription and will get different prescriptions for my monthly blood tests, scans and the like.

One good thing about being in France, I've had more tests in 10 months that I had in the UK in 5 years plus I get all these neat pics to look at showing my bits are all working properly.

Anybody want a spleen by the way? Have one almost 4 times the usual size that I'm looking to recycle, the great thing about being here is that rather than being palpated - posh way of saying the doc is having a rummage round and a good guess at its size - I've got the pics to show how it grows by the two month time lapse!

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Hi Penny

What are they replacing the points system with?  I'v got fibromyalgia, IBS, and new this week -  gluten intolerance/could be coeliac! same as my daughter.  I have been on long term ICB for 18 months and found the 'old' system difficult enough as my symptoms are never the same each day, some days the 'Brain Fog' hits me and I find my car keys in the fridge, forget to collect the kids from school, can't remember how to spell simple words,other days the pain is so bad I write off the day and go back to bed.  I have terrible trouble with stairs etc etc.  I am due for 'review' in February and would like advance warning of which mountains I will have to climb!  We are moving to France in June as my day to day health is much better in warm weather.

I my mother has severe Rheumatoid so I have been helping her fill in the forms for years and knew about the points system, I would have possibly not have scored 'enough' simply because on a 'good' day I tend to forget how bad I am on a bad day or during a flare up. 

I know that people on ICB are going to be 'helped' back to work, but much as I would love to return to work I am simply not up to it.

I would really appreciate any info on this as it is really starting to worry me!

Brain Fog today so sorry about the spelling!

Donna

 

 

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Hi Donna,

If you want to PM me privately I'll do all I can to help. I never worked for the DWP myself (I'm just ex Jobcentre,  ex-Contributions Agency and ex-Inland Revenue!!!!!) but I DO have friends who did & still do work for the DWP. I can't promise anything but I can at least ask for more details about the whole points thing, the new questionaires and how the "getting fit for work" proof fits into the new scheme of things. I'm sure I'll be able to find someone who will be willing to help as most of the staff especially Jobcentreplus officers are up in arms about the whole Pathways Scheme. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
I have to go for my annual review soon. I suffer from depression and panic attacks. I feel it is important to take someone with me to help with translation,. Depression isn't like a broken leg you can see. I cannot adaquatly describe how I feel in French. I still have to do all the other bits, bend, lift arm ect which I can do, but it is difficult to explain in French those inner feelings cause by depression. I had a letter from Limoge this time, last year it was Niort.Why the change I know not.
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I have just been reading all your posts with total shock!!

I'm moving over to France  this year (medically retired, at 39, from the civil service) & while I am on Incapacity Benefit here, I was told I could only claim it for 6 months after I leave the Northern Ireland.

What do I do when I move to France?  Are the benefits you are talking about provided by the French Government?  Do I apply when I arrive?  I really didn't know anything like this was possible for a "new" citizen!!

I will not/never be able to work again because of my back, which is degenerating, which is 1 of the main reasons for moving to a warmer & drier climate.

Please let me know anything you can on this subject or if possible give me the addresses of any sites (in English, if possible!!) where I can check what benefits may be availible to me & for how long.

Also, please excuse my spelling as I've just been put on really high levels of Diazepam & my hubby says I'm doing a very good impression of Ozzy Osborne at the moment!.[:D]

I really would appreciate any advice & look forward to hearing from anyone who can help.

Thank you so much.

Alison.

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Hi Alison

I cannot see any reason why your ICB cannot continue to be paid to you while you are resident in France.  The money can be paid either to a UK bank or to a French bank.  Unless things have changed completely.  They will require you to see your Doctor here on a regaular basis, for them to complete, health assessment forms, long term sick notes and occasionally ask for you to see a specified Dr to re-assess your case. 

If you have a degenerative illness, as you state, then, after discussion with a French GP they will assess if this is covered 100% by the French CPAM.   IF you are medically retired, due to ill health, then you will receive an E121 from Newcastle, this will act as your long term reciprocal health care here in France.  I have this and am classed as invalided due to ill health early retirement.  There are benefits that can be applied for, once you are in the French health system and can prove residency status. 

Hope that helps a little.   

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Hi Alison,

Under current rules it will depend on long you have been receiving INCAP benefits for in the UK as to whether these are transferable to another EEC country (it you are on designated "long term incapacity benefit" it is transferable whereas short term benefit is not). A lot will depend on how long you have been claiming INCAP for -  plus the fact that the rules and regs have been changed and changed again and again over the past few years, so much will depend on when you started claiming and whether the area in which you made your claim has been designated as "Pathways Pilot scheme"!

My computer crashed recently and I lost all my useful links etc but I will search the Net for some useful sites which will help explain the recent and future changes to payment of INCAP, plus info on the points system requirements of DWP reviews, if I can find them again I will pop them in a new posting under this heading, especially as the 1st poster above mentioned mental health issues and I have a feeling the "points" requirement at the review stage is slightly different for mental health problems. Apart from needing to accrue a certain number of "points" at any review, under the new scheme more questions will be asked at the interview regarding how the claimant is "helping themselves" to get better & I've heard that there is much more emphasis now on what someone can do rather than what they cannot do.

In meantime, the best thing anyone can do is thoroughly read anything they can find on the Pathways Scheme, the Pathways Pilots, plus all the changes proposed in the Gov's Green Paper which include the total abolition of INCAP in 2 years time (it will be replaced by another type of payment (supposedly at a higher rate) but considerably less people will qualify for the benefit (they are talking in terms of MILLIONS less!!!!).

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Carol

I've only just seen your question, so I apologise for replying late.

The thread seems to have digressed onto blue parking permit complications [:)]

My wife was required to attend in Niort for one of these incapacity examinations, it had taken several months to arrange the appointment and we wondered if they had forgotten!

The doctor was very polite, but spoke very little English, or at least attempted very little. I suspect that she understood what my wife and I said to each other. 

Language wasn't a great problem as the doctor had an enormous English/French medical dictionary!!

My wife is deaf, but was required to undress (!), and the examination was quite thorough. The doctor had to fill out a form covering several pages but we did not see what topics it covered.

The examination was at the end of November and we've just heard yesterday from DWP that the incapacity payment is to continue and will be reviewed in another 2 year's time.

I wouldn't think that it would be necessary to take a translator, I only went along because my wife doesn't hear and it complicates the translation process.

Regards

Sid

 

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From the BBC news website

GPs may be offered cash incentives to encourage patients on Incapacity Benefit back to work, Work and Pensions Secretary John Hutton has confirmed.

He said the government wanted to talk to doctors "and some of their patients" so that "people don't just end up on benefit when there are other options".

Be interesting to see how long visits to French Doctors will be allowed to continue under these reforms.

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".......only I can not see why when anyone comes over to France that the incap. benefit should follow,and why should the UK tax payer pay for some one to live in France? "

The simple answer to this is that both the UK and France are part of the EU and have bilateral agreements which cover this and these agreements have been in place for many years now.  People need to stop thinking UK and France when discussing issues like this and start thinking EU member states.  The Governments of both France and the UK wanted to join the EU and agreed to a bilatteral system.  I live in France permenantly but still pay UK taxes on my military pension.  I could well ask why I should be paying tax to support people in a country where I no longer live but I do not (I by the way am not on any form of income support but my wife is permanently disabled for life) because as far as I am concerned england, Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland are simple member states of the UE.

It is also worth noting that the majority of people claiming incapacity benefit also paid into the UK system for many years before they moved and so the UK should continue to pay them so long as they continue to reside within an EU Country. 

Rgds,  Mike L

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