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young mum and 2 children moving to France


Charallais
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The whole point was the fact that when my daughter and I needed financial help in the UK, it was not there to help us, not at all.  My ex ignored all court rulings and basically done nothing, apart from making the odd payment when a penal notice was issued, which is what i have needed to do.  We got nothing in the way of benefits so teamedup you will be relieved to know that your hard earned cash wasn't helping us.  I paid into the system for over 20 years as well and at the higher rate of tax, but could have easily ended up homeless if it wasn't for the help of my family.  My home in france is not a holiday home but a main residence, and we came for peace of mind and to escape the constant abuse that we were subjected to.  My privaliged lifestyle (joke) had a price, and I paid highly whilst in the UK.  Regardless however, I had never tried claiming for anything before in my life, things change, and you sometimes have to do things you wouldn't have ordinarily done, and whilst not comfortable with my current situation, I can at least try and find out, afterall i've been filling in paperwork for 4 months now and haven't received anything so far!............but i have been told its possible?!.....and why shouldn't young mum try?

I've never needed to scrounge before, am doing all sorts of strange and varied things to try and earn some money, but the child benefit  equivalent would make things an awful lot easier.

Also i'm still fairly new to this forum, but i do manage to find lots of helpful stuff out, which i thought was the whole point of people asking questions on here, and before I go, one of my friends in the UK sent me the welfare state thing, it made me laugh and at least my sense of humour is still intact, even though my bank account isn't.

Good Wishes Traci (not so young mum)!

 

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We have lived in France for 26 years so yes, our cash is helping you. And as I said, when we leave we will still have to pay into the french system, we have no choice in this. We'll also be paying in the UK, but not as much I esteem we should if they got everything as we'll be living there.

The carte de sejour stopped a couple of years ago. To get one we had to prove income and we had to prove that we had minimum  amounts to live on in France. We had to prove that we could support ourselves properly or go. It was not unreasonable.

 

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[quote user="Tresco"]

I wish that Traci hadn't chosen to quote what is basically a racist diatribe, as she did pretty well in her own words, (describing her situation), without resorting to that.

[/quote]

That made me smile Tresco, perhaps you could enlighten me as to how, exactly that 'quote' is 'racist'.............

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And the great majority of those 'retired' people who have chosen to live in France still, of course, pay into the tax system either here or in the UK so whilst they may not be earning a salary and paying NI contributions etc, they are still paying towards 'the system'.

I'm pleased to receive the 100% on my health costs but in return, I still work (I haven't reached retirement age yet) tho I'm registered as disabled and have taken early retirement on health grounds twice and still gone back to work and I pay my taxes and cotizations in two countries - so generalizations about the retired and their motivations don't help either, if you're in the system here you do pay unless you have little or no income. 

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Tresco I have already said that they have signed an agreement which allows her to take the children from the UK to France (I have mentioned this twice.)

I have also explained, twice, that the council have said the flat was provided for the children and the person who has custody. When they moved there they were married and both had custody, now it is for her and the children. He REFUSES to move out. The council will not rehouse her anywhere else because she has the flat but due to the fact he is adament he will not go 'THEY can't make me move' he said so she has no where else to go unless she sleeps rough with a 5 year old and a 3 year old. Her husband is named as the tenant but according to the council they are joint tenants. She is so mentally abused , the latest is that she has the easy option of moving to France and he will have it hard being left alone in the flat!

I am convinced that people are not reading this thread properly. Mostly it is about how she should stay (where?), shouldn't come and put extra pressure on the French system, take action that I have already explained she has done and apart from Traci who has been in my daughter's position not give any practical advice into how she can enter the system because the British system doesn't have the paperwork for people in her position who stopped work to raise a family who are now 5 and 3 and only started working part time last year. Before moving to the flat they were self employed but due to her husband's appaling business attributes they lost the business and home. Getting the flat was a stressful and difficult procedure living in a bedsit with a toddler and new baby a one point. The building had drug addicts, stabbings and a man who hanged himself in an adjacent flatlet. My daughter was also punched in the face by one of the addicts.

Eventually they were allocated the flat but her husband continues to be useless with money and she has found that on occasions rent hasn't been paid, found letters from credit card companies hidden under son's bed and other financial problems he kept quiet. She has taken over the finances on more than one occasion but he still runs up debts. He has made it clear he doesn't want her and now he doesn't want the children around.

I find him despicable that he is denying his own children of a home provided for them. If he was any sort of man he would bow out graciously and allow them to stay where they have schools, friends and family but he wants them as far away as possible. Unfortunately there is no one else who can given them a home, near to their comfort zone so she has no option to come here. She cannot afford a solicitor but is using the CAB for advice.

Were you also aware that in their wisdom the child benefit in England would normally be paid to the person who pays NI? that means if he had offered to pay a reasonable rate of maintenance he would receive the child benefit to pass on to my daughter! She was horrified about that and so was I. Surely it should be paid straight to the person who has custody, I have learnt a lot this week.

If anyone has any sensible answers rather than passing judgement then I would apprecciate hearing from them.

 

 

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The law must have changes drastically over the last few years, as when I appled for family allowance there was a part on the form that asked who you wanted to receive the family allowance.........I filled it in for me, as it would have been me going and buying the nappies! Has your daughter spoken to the dpartment that deals with this as I am sure she could change the details IE if she had changed banks etc.......So how do all the unemployed parents claim their family allowance.?

Another point, If the Flat is in your daughters name as she is the carer of the children  then surely she can get HIM evicted.......It is her flat. I should go and se the CAB again.

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I spent a huge amount of money getting divorced, but hey...........solicitors are professionals at this field and know the system.  I know i never qualifed for legal aid either so i was stuck with a massive bill to pay.  However your daughter as she is in council accommadation may have this facility available to her, but i do know that if the divorce goes to a final hearing, the legal aid may stop beforehand and she would have to represent herself.

As i can't afford a solicitor anymore in the UK to fight my battles for me, and finding information out about complex family law problems free of charge is extremely difficult.  The internet seemed too vague to ever apply to my situation, the CAB would make suggestions, but more often proved useless, and there is another organisation that do offer free advice on legal matters but don't offer advice on family law.  As i had to represent myself in court for problems after the final hearing  i found a company of lawyers in the UK, who were really fab.  They won't represent you but they will give you all the information you need and write letters and legalise everything for you and warn you of the repercussions if you're going down the wrong route.  I paid £85 for my most recent battle, represented myself, and although i was shaking and my voice quivering, I came out smiling.  I had defended myself against my ex and his barrister, and apart from the judge sorting out Decembers problems, he had also been stuffed with their own costs, which was another thing they were trying to get from me.  For a divorce they would obviously charge alot more but its another option worth considering although it would only add to her current stress levels and whether or not she has any fight left in her to cope with this.  Another thing is the credit card debts, are they in the husbands name?

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Charallais - it sounds as though your daughter needs the assistance of a good solicitor specialising in familiy law to sort things out for her in the UK. Under the circumstances you describe she will be entitled to legal aid. The CAB will point her in the right direction if she asks.

Edit: I posted this just as Traci was posting her reply. I've only just realised that she is still married - I'm sure that she must get the situation with her husband straightened out in the English courts.

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Re Compulsory Carte de Sejour

 There are a number of people on this forum who regularly say they wish the CdS had remained compulsory and, from what I understand, as a way of stopping a few people moving over to France from the UK and claiming.

 I’m always a little confused about these assertions as I lived in France during the CdS days too. There were different types of CdS if I remember correctly.

 In view of the fact that France is hardly flooded with young Brits coming here to find work and claiming, what difference would reintroducing the CdS really make apart from yet another department of pen pushers for tax payers to fund?

 My understanding of the Brits settled in France is that most are retired or near retirement and the ‘younger’ group in their mid-late 30s and older. On arrival, I would hazard a guess and say that 99.9% of these arrive with sufficient income to live on in the early stages, hence they would be entitled to a CdS.

 For the ''younger'' set, the problem seems to arise after a few years in France when the savings have diminished and attempts to make a living often thwarted by the c rap French economy. I have a friend in her early 40s who returned to a great job in London a few weeks ago after 4 years here who illustrates this perfectly. On arrival in early 2003, she obtained a CdS. The financial issues arose over 2 years later and after incredible attempts to find decent employment.

 So, I’m really not convinced by the CdS argument as far as Brits moving to France are concerned. It will just end up being yet another zillion euros cost to tax payers in order to save a few euros. As someone who hates bureaucracy, I fail to see the point in that. I can’t speak about other nationalities. 

 As for ‘profiting’ from the French system, everything I read seem to suggest that it’s the French themselves that are the masters of this art.

 Re the original poster and her daughter and grandchildren. Given the fact that the parents are French residents, I’m still not certain that the daughter would have been refused a CdS even under the old regime as she can show that she will not be relying on the state for accommodation, which as I remember was quite important with the CdS in the old days.

 As for Tax money paying for her and the children, well, I’d much rather they go towards paying for a family in such circumstances than for the tons of luxury ‘’appartements de fonction’’ and other nonsense waste of public funds by French bureaucrats and politicians.

 Charallais, sadly, I don’t know the answers to your questions, but I sincerely hope that you find a solution.

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Hi Charallais

Not sure if this link helps: http://www.bbc.co.uk/relationships/domestic_violence/optionshh_index12.shtml

I also want to wish your daughter all the best.  My sister went through a similar nightmare with her ex  - he was physically abusing both her and their daughter, he sold the furniture and even the childrens clothes while she was out.  In those days she wasn't even allowed to know how much money he was picking up in benefits (as a 'married father of two') - nevermind have any access to the money! Social services answer was to tell my sister take the children to a social services day care centre 5 miles away (she had no car and no money and had to walk both ways!) rather than move him from the house!  She eventually left (with the help of my parents) because she couldn't take anymore (his previous wife had had a complete breakdown and attempted suicide - my sister, at least, avoided that fate).  So he ended up with a lovely three bedroom house with brand new appliances throughout (he told social services she had taken everything so they provided him with a new cooker, washer, fridge etc).  My sister, on the other hand, had nothing.  The children are grown up now but he never paid a single penny towards them.

Kathie

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Yes, I think that Charallais's daughter would have been allowed in under the old rules, as long as her parents made some sort of guarantee to take responsibilty for her.

I am pretty sure that EU laws still state that no one should move country to freeload when they get there. Have I misread the the text below? It looks clear to me.

Is it a wonder that people like me get annoyed, I won't say irritated, when the laws are flaunted, with, might I add the strange complicity of the french authorites, or so it seems.

I agree if someone moves to France and later has problems when they are in the system then at some point where one lives comes in to play and entitlement. 

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/fr/citizens/living/right-residence/different-category/index_fr.html

 

INFORMATIONS RELATIVES AU DROIT COMMUNAUTAIRE

Haut de la page

VOS DROITS

En tant que citoyen de l’Union, vous pouvez entrer sur le territoire d’un État membre avec une carte d’identité ou un passeport en cours de validité et y séjourner trois mois sans aucune formalité.

En tant que citoyen de l’Union qui ne bénéficie pas du droit de séjour en vertu d'autres dispositions du droit communautaire, vous pouvez séjourner dans un autre État membre à condition que vous disposiez de ressources suffisantes pour éviter que vous et les membres de votre famille ne deveniez, pendant votre séjour, une charge pour l'assistance sociale de l'État membre d'accueil et à condition que vous et les membres de votre famille disposiez d'une assurance-maladie couvrant l'ensemble des risques dans l'État membre d'accueil.

Les ressources visées sont suffisantes lorsqu'elles sont supérieures au niveau de ressources en deçà duquel une assistance sociale peut être accordée par l'État membre d'accueil à ses ressortissants ou, si ce critère ne peut s'appliquer, lorsqu’elles lorsqu'elles sont supérieures au niveau de la pension minimale de sécurité sociale versée par l'État membre d'accueil.

Pour la délivrance de la carte de séjour, il peut uniquement vous être demandé de présenter une carte d'identité ou un passeport en cours de validité et de fournir la preuve que vous répondez aux conditions prévues. La validité peut être limitée à cinq ans, renouvelable. Toutefois, les États membres peuvent, quand ils l'estiment nécessaire, demander la revalidation de la carte au terme des deux premières années de séjour.

Les documents de séjour accordés aux ressortissants d'un État membre sont délivrés et renouvelés à titre gratuit ou contre versement d'une somme ne dépassant pas les droits et taxes exigés pour la délivrance des cartes d'identité aux nationaux.

Le droit de séjour demeure tant que vous répondez aux conditions précitées. Toutefois, le recours à une aide sociale en cas de difficultés temporaires ne peut pas entraîner votre expulsion automatique de l’État membre d’accueil.

Sous réserve des conditions susmentionnées et des dispositions spécifiques prévues par le traité et la législation secondaire, vous avez le droit de bénéficier de l'égalité de traitement avec les nationaux, dans le domaine d’application du traité

 

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The welfare state is meant to be there as a safety net.  It's meant to help people when they are in situations like Traci and Coral have outlined.  Surely it is natural for Coral's daughter to lean on her family for moral support during difficult times, whether they're in France or Timbuctu.  Fantastic that she can count on her family for support and doesn't have to go through visa hurdles to get there.   The fact that Traci (and many other women) have chosen to stay at home and look after their children  while their partner goes out to work should not mean that they get accused of freeloading from the state when their marriages break down and their financial cirumstances change drastically.  Women can't win - you get the court to give you decent maintenance and you're freeloading from your hardworking husband, and you claim from the state and you're a sponger....

I paid into the UK system for years and took nothing out  - I wasn't educated by the state, I rarely used the medical services and I never claimed benefit.  I don't expect a "pay back", and as no longer work in the EU, my "credit" has run out.  I'm not counting my contributions into any system and calculating my net profit or loss.  I paid my taxes in part to help those in worse circumstances than I and hope that if I am ever unlucky enough to have to claim, that same safety net will catch me.  

We are EU citizens, and the EU allows freedom of movement, regardless of whether or not we are financially donating to the state And  as Kathie said, there are a lot of retired Brits in France who have made quite a saving on their NI contributions, getting a superior health service (according to international norms) for a pittance. 

Good luck to the two of you.

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The mother of young mum posted on this forum for advice at what is undoubtedly a very emotional and stressful time for all concerned.  What she didn't need was the moral judgements that many posters seem keen to post.  Unless you have something constructive and helpful to say would it really be too much trouble just to ignore her post and not comment at all.  If the issue is so important to you open up a general thread of your own where you can discuss the subject to your hearts content without upsetting a family who could well do without trying to justify themselves to people on this forum who obviously have nothing better to do. 

Wanting your loved ones close to you at a time like this is only natural and young mum is lucky to have such caring parents who are more than willing to be there for her.

Good luck and I hope that things work out for you all.

 

 

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I am sorry if I have missed this, but at the present time is the OPs daughter's name on the Child Benefit book . It used to be that the one parent was the named person and the other parent could, if nominated, collect the Child Benefit on their behalf.

It is also possible to have the allowance paid directly into a bank account.  If the OP's daughter opens a bank account in her sole name and then contacts them and asks for the money to paid direct to her. I cannot see how the husband could get round this as she already has a letter from him stating that she is the main carer ( the letter that he has written agreeing that the children can leave the country ).

   Have a look on the website and contact them.  I wouldn't mention moving to France at this stage, as she is in the UK concentrate on getting that money into her hands and cross the moving to France bridge when you need to.

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I think the OP would lose the right to Child Benefit once the children left the UK permanently, and would not qualify for French benefits due to application of the rules TU posted above. IE The right to live in another EU country is subject to having sufficient resources to disqualify from claiming benefits. Obviously things would be different if she was working and paying into the French system, in which case entitlements to French benefits would eventually  accrue.
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Although it looks certain that this relationship is doomed at present the husband is in the UK, I am pretty sure that I have read here that people have quite legitimately received UK child benefit in that situation before, odd though it seems.

Isn't the child allowance/ benefit thing a bit of a side track ? Surely the original question was about getting in the health care system ? Isn't the purpose of the daughter moving to France so that she can be supported by her parents? I think I'll have to re read it.

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The OP was talking about her daughter's eligibility for healthcare in France on the back of their E106s. The thread went off topic when Traci started extolling the virtues of being able to get large sums of money from the French government without having contributed anything. The OP has talked of her daughter getting work in France rather than claiming benefits.

Teamed Up's comments to Traci's post seem entirely reasonable to me; unfortunately the OP's daughter seems to be getting tarred with Traci's brush!

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[quote user="Charallais"]

 

Were you also aware that in their wisdom the child benefit in England would normally be paid to the person who pays NI? that means if he had offered to pay a reasonable rate of maintenance he would receive the child benefit to pass on to my daughter! She was horrified about that and so was I. Surely it should be paid straight to the person who has custody, I have learnt a lot this week.

If anyone has any sensible answers rather than passing judgement then I would apprecciate hearing from them.

 

 

[/quote]

It was this part raised by Charallais that I was querying as I was always under the impression that child benefit was paid to the parent / guardian of the child. If the couple are living together and married either parent can claim it.

 I have never read that in cases where the couple are separated or divorced that the other parent could continue to claim it and pass it onto the parent who has day to day care of the children.  The benefit should go directly (either by payment book or direct into the bank ) to the parent with care, so this is something she needs to double check with the Benefits Agency. If not only to get the benefit whilst she is in the UK , to prevent her husband getting it fraudulently when she has left the UK.

 

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The Ops daughter has a very similar situation to my own, I came to France a year ago with every intention of working and i would like to add that when married in the UK to succesful man also worked myself at this company.  My ex also told me that maintanance payments to my daughter and myself would continue, and they did to start until I left the main residence, then they stopped.  Since then life has been made harder, and I have been working here although its sporadic and cannot be relied upon.  My french friends told me that I may be able to get some help through the welfare system which does apparently cover some medical costs etc and make life slightly easier for us.  The Ops grandchild has a problem and they are concerned about this, this was another suggestion to try and help them.  The Ops daughter will also be a single parent in France.  Having currently recieved zero money so far from the french goverment, I do not have the knowledge to be able to tell them if she will be eligible for this or not.  The welfare system here hasn't told me yes or no yet, so I don't know.  My first reply was to basically ask people who may have experiance of this, was it a possibility or not.  The child benefit will stop when she leaves the UK, well mine did. 

The Ops daughters husband will not leave the property, thus making life difficult for her.  They already feel fairly certain that when she leaves the UK he will not pay the maintanance, and court order or not (and I am very knowledgeable about this) when the ex's don't want to pay, they don't. When trying to claim entitlement in the UK, you have to show the court orders or arrangements you have with your husband to get some of these benefits.  After seeing these they then decide if you are entitled to anything or not, and it makes no differance if the spouse is paying or not.  The fact is the court order rules and the benefits system in the UK works around this regardless of non paying spouses.  Hence i couldn't claim.  The CSA (child support agency) is swamped under and running at least 18 months behind on new claims, they have introduced new measures to tackle non paying spouses but these will not be introduced for another year or so.  So at least they are aware of this husbands past antics and aren't expecting anything for their daughter or her children.  Unless these people have a money tree in their garden, they will be interested to know about any possibility that may help their daughter.

The work i'm doing here is varied, painting - interior & exterior, curtain making and soft furnishings, garden designing, upholstery, decking, I already said earlier its sporadic and I use most of these funds in taking my ex back to court for his non- payments, and just trying to survive here.  I currently don't have any medical provision for either of us, so i just pay the amount due and hope that nothing serious happens to either of us, and want to get this aspect sorted out as well.........................and as for being tarred with my brush!.........well you should try eating bread for 3 weeks and telling a child there's nothing else as mummy can't afford it.  I'm doing the best i can for now and remaining positive.

 

 

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I will pick up on your last line.

If all you have eaten for 3 weeks is bread then I should shop somewhere else, as for your 90 centimes, you could have had a dozen eggs one day , a goats cheese log the other  a salad the next a tin of tomatos an onion and a bag of spaghetti the day after . I would not try living as you say and would not put my girls through it in any country!

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[quote user="Traci"]

well you should try eating bread for 3 weeks and telling a child there's nothing else as mummy can't afford it.  I'm doing the best i can for now and remaining positive.

[/quote]

Traci, I don't know where you are, but if your situation is really as bad as you describe, then there is every reason for you to go and see social services and benefit from Banque Alimentaire, and other help so that your children can at least have some food. Failing that, there are organisations like Secours Populaire, Secours Catholique, and Restos du Coeur who would give you food parcels, and probably enough for you all to survive on much more than bread for a week.

I don't know any of those organisations who would refuse to help you - and I know that for a fact, as I work for one of them and have worked for another.

Opas - This maybe a little harsh. I speak as someone whose mother was once in Traci's situation. Bearing in mind that this was many years ago, and there was no social cover as there is now. I still remember my mother being absolutely desperate to put anything on the table for my brother and I, and remember evenings with only potatoes boiled in their skin, and salt. There were also other evenings with.... just nothing on the table. Not many, though. Neighbours soon realised what was going on and rallied around, bringing this and that, and alerting the Red Cross, my mother was too proud then.... eventually someone gave her some work washing dishes in a school canteen - fortunately this was short-lived. But my point is that until you have been in that situation yourself, you just don't know how you would react.

As for having just bread, that is quite common. It may not be nourishing, but at least it makes you feel full.[:(]

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