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young mum and 2 children moving to France


Charallais
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Due to the breakdown of her marriage and the situation with her husband my daughter and her children aged 5 and 3 are coming to live with us in France.

We are fully integrated into the health system and due to both of receiving Incapacity Benefit both my husband and I are covered 100%.

I spoke to Medical Benefits in England about my daughter and the children (one of whom needs regular medication through chronic asthma) and they say they are not sure that they will not receive medical cover as my daughter has only worked part time since last August. They are of course covered in the UK and my grandaughter receives her treatment regularly and has been hospitalised a few times due to the severity of her condition.

One suggestion the man I spoke to came up with was they become dependants on our E121 and then CPAM contact the International Medical Benefits section via an E107.

The fact her marriage has broken down and she has no real qualifications or language skills scares my daughter as well as taking the children away from their father, but he is the one who wants them to come to France and she is prepared to do so due to the situation within the home environment. She wants to get her language skills up to date, turn her life around and hopefully find an a job and home of her own.

Has anyone else been in this situation where, due to the fact they haven't worked for a long period, are not entitled to the E106 and therefore perhaps not entitled to health care in France?  We are now worried for her and the children. As what was to be a positive new start seems to be collapsing around our ears; and her husband isn't bothered.

Charallais

 

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I wouldn't have thought that as an independent rather than dependant adult (even though she is your child), that your daughter would be able to tag onto your health cover.

Adding my unsolicited two pence worth.[:D] I can understand why your daughter wants a fresh start, but as has been said so often on this forum 'running away' may not solve all her problems. Realistically, how far away is she from having sufficient skills to get a job ?

Ex Husband, why is he so keen for her to leave the UK ? Does he think that he won't have to pay any maintenance for his children, because he will. Will he give his permission for her to leave the UK with his childen when the time comes?

Maybe she needs to get stock of her life in the UK and make these life changing decisions further down the line ? Just some thoughts.[:D]

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My daughter and her husband have signed an agreement that she can take the children out of the UK and he has agreed to pay her maintenance.

She has nowhere else to go so she has to come to us. She has the right to stay in their property as it was provided by the council for  the children and the person who has custody, which is her. However, her husband won't leave. She cannot fight anymore and if she moves anywhere else she has no support. This is not something she is doing without realising how hard it will be.

Medical benefits are adamant that due to the fact she hasn't worked for a long enough period of time independently she cannot use E106 because that is for people who have worked before leaving.

Unfortunately chasing him for money won't happen from France, but realistically we don't expect him to pay up. We are sortiing out the child benefit so that she gets what is due to her. There is no way she can stay in the UK. He has made it clear he doesn't want her around and although no physical abuse has taken place she feels mentally ground down. She will have support from a lot of people we have contacts with here who are prepared to help her with language and work; in fact she will have more support and opportunity here than in England!

I need to know if anyone else has been through this situation and what the answer was to get into the health system especially with a child who needs regular medical attention.

Charallais

 

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33. Living (but not working) in another EEA country

If you are going to live, but not work, in another EEA country, you may get healthcare cover from the UK for yourself, and for any members of your family who depend on you and who go with you, under the state scheme of the other country. But this cover will only be for a limited time. How long it lasts will depend on whether you could still get UK short-term Incapacity Benefit if you claimed it. When this period ends, the UK cannot give you any more healthcare cover unless anything in sections 34-37 applies to you.

Before you move abroad, ring The Pension Service, Tyne View Park and ask for a claim pack to be sent to you.

When you get forms E106, register the forms by giving them to the authorities who run the sickness insurance scheme in the country where you live. If you have family members who cannot be issued with form E106 in their own right, they may be covered as members of your family on your own form E106, but this is a matter for the authorities in the country where you reside. Ask them if they can include your family members when your form E106 is registered.

As the UK will continue to pay for your health care because you are in receipt of Incapacity Benefit, I can't see why your CPAM office would refuse to add your daughter and her children, it would be no skin off their noses. She would just need a top up then.

Prior to visiting any other EEA country you will need to get a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) from the UK for your medical cover. When form E106 is issued to you, you will also be sent an EHIC Application Pack . Send the completed form to the PPA in the envelope provided.

If you start work in the country where you live you should become insured for health care under that country’s sickness insurance scheme. The forms E106 and the EHIC issued by the UK will then no longer to apply to you.

If you do not meet the rules for form E106 yourself, and cannot be covered as a member of the family of someone who you depend on and live with, you may be able to pay voluntary contributions to the state sickness insurance scheme of the country you move to. This depends on the law of that country. If not, you will have to take out private medical insurance. In most other EEA countries, you must prove that you have adequate healthcare cover before you will get a right of residence.

 

 

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Hi, I think your daughter is taking a massive step but one for the better.  I done exactly the same thing last year and came to France as a single parent with my young daughter, although all my family are still in the UK.  What i have learned and am still muddling my way through the system that single parent families are allowed to claim off the goverment here (similar to child benefit) only they are allowed more money, I think its about 700 euro's per month and with this you get the majority of medical expenses covered.  However as I am still submitting paperwork and my french is completely useless, somebody else more informed may be able to tell you more precise information, but this is what I have been led to believe so far.  However i wish her the very best of luck................best wishes Traci
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Thank you Traci for your support and a sensible answer.

We went to the Centre Social today to enquire on our daughter's behalf about benefits as her child allowance will stop when she leaves England. We have an appointment next week. The options to get Child benefit from England was her husband gets the allowance and pays her (!) or we claim it on her bahalf, this gives her no independence. We then went to CPAM and the lady was great and understands our daughter wants to be independent and when her language skills are more up and running and she feels more confident she can get a job and perhaps a home for her and the children

Unfortunately she has no option but to come here, she has no where to go in England. The flat is for the children and the person with custody (her) but her husband refuses to leave. She has run out of fight and only wants to keep her children safe. He has signed them over to her, which means she can bring them here, he justs keeps telling her to go and the only place is here.

I don't understand Beryl's answer because my husband and I are here already, received full Incapacity Benefit, are covered by the French Health System, have top up insurance and do not work, we came on an E121 four years ago. As my daughter has only worked a few hours a week since last summer she doesn't qualify for an E106, that is for workers, so what I need to know is, if you cannot get an E106 how do you get into the French health system? She and the children could, apparantly, be joined to our health cover but that doesn't give her the independence she wants especially if she moves on to live alone. We won't be applying for E106s because we don't work, my husband through kidney problems for 10 years and me for 6 years due to a stroke and anyway we are here already. She doesn't need to apply for Incapacity Benefit so Beryl I just don't understand your answer!

Saying she should stay in the UK is strange, why should she when she cannot go anywhere except sleep on the streets with a five year old and a three year old until the council manage to get her husband out of the flat? Surely she and the children are safer here with us? She already speaks fairly good French but needs to get up to speed for working and she is prepared to do that, she just needs the support which we are able to give. She is not 'running away' anyone coming to France could be classified as running away. You ae in France, why are you here and what did you run away from? A dull job, an abusive partner, rotten weather? All reasons to be here. Or did you run to something? In our daughter's case a more secure and emotionally less hostile environment, where the children are happier too.

 

Charallais

 

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34. Getting long-term Incapacity Benefit, Severe Disablement Allowance, widow's benefits, bereavement benefits or State Pension when you are living in another EEA country

You may be able to get one of the above benefits from the UK when living in another EEA country. If so, you may also get healthcare cover from the UK for yourself and for any members of your family who depend on you and who live with you.

Note – Any medical treatment you need will be given by the health services in the country where you live.

Write to The Pension Service, Tyneview Park, to ask for form E121 as soon as possible before you go. You may need a separate E121 form for yourself and each member of your family. When you get them, give them to the authorities who run the sickness insurance scheme in the country where you live.

If you can prove to the UK that your daughter is a dependent, then you may be able to get health cover for her according to the above.

I appreciate that you are in the French system but as you are on Incapacity Benefit, the UK is continuing to pay for it, so it is really up to the UK as to whether they will accept your daughter as an 'add on'. That's my interpretation of it anyway. I would bother the Pension Service again.

 

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[quote user="Charallais"]

We are fully integrated into the health system and due to both of receiving Incapacity Benefit both my husband and I are covered 100%.

 

[/quote]

As I think you are already aware from a later posting where you say you have top up medical cover, your statement above is not true.

You are only covered 100% for treatment/prescriptions etc. relating to your disability/incapacity. For any other conditions you are treated exactly the same as people without an ALD.

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 I suppose the 'right' answer is that she should get her husband out of the flat with a court order - a relative of mine did this to get rid of the father of her child, so my best guess is that it is possible.

 However it seems plain that your daughter wants to be near you so she has some support which IMHO is only natural.

There have in the past been postings here where the husband has worked in the UK with wife and family in France and they have continued to get Family allowance through the husbands earnings, quite legitimately. Would this be possible in your daughters case ?

FWIW: Someone who used to post here had planned to move to France, had the sailing booked etc and a house (for renovation) to go to. Literally a few days before going her husband changed his mind and the marriage broke down. She went ahead with her plans. The house wasn't fit to over winter in with children and so she was given a flat and used to get food parcels. She had some very grim times indeed however I'm pleased to say the picture has changed now, through another forum she met someone else and they have now opened a restaurant together.

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

What can I say Traci, what sort of an example is this to tell everyone, come to France and sap the french system.

[/quote]

I'm with you on this one TU.......................I find it incredible that anyone can move to another country and then think that they can claim benefit when they have made zero contributions in that country..............[:@]

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What would anyone do. Well in the past we just couldn't move to France 'like that' with no means of support as Traci said. We wouldn't have been eligible for a carte de sejour and therefore had no right to stay in France. Also the health cover was NOT there either in the past.  It was not unreasonable to tell people to go home, France owes no one anything.

Even in the past if parents were up for supporting their children/grandchildren then I suppose they may have been allowed to stay. However, it boils down to who is keeping someone.

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I think that your daughter would need to apply for an E106, which would be refused if she's not paid enough contributions. She should then go to CPAM with the letter of refusal, proof of earnings and proof of ID etc, and I believe that she would then be covered by CPAM in her own right, paying contributions for her health cover if her earnings were above a minimum level.

That's how I understand it anyhow.

Cheryl

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TIRED OF YOUR JOB?

Sick of working 40 hours or more each week just to

Feed your family?

Would you like to relax all day and still have all the

Benefits of a full time job?

If you answered yes to any of these questions then

You should consider moving to

 

  ENGLAND The Welfare Country

FREE HOUSING

FREE UTILITIES

FREE FOOD

FREE MEDICAL SERVICES

FREE TRANSPORTATION

FREE LEGAL SERVICES

This programme is not limited to 3 or 6 months

Like other countries. In England you can collect for life

Some of our families have received benefits for 2 or 3

Generations. So if you would like to receive all of this

Without working for a living contact -

THE BENEFITS AGENCY

England, the country where only suckers work!!!!

Well I did work, very hard, got married, got divorced and should have financially been very comfortable, I have my own house here in France and am much happier with my daughter than I have been in years.  Except for the fact that every few months I have to keep re-visiting the UK, and going back to court to face my ex husband all over again for his non payments.  He is a very succesful man and made our lives a living nightmare during the divorce.  As every woman will appreciate when you are looking after children there is only so much trauma you can cope with.  I had never intended seeking french benefit for my child but there comes a time when you need help.  When i was in the UK, the benefits agency laughed at me, several properties, child in private school, good maintanance payments on paper, the fact that my husband didn't pay me, didn't pay the school fee's, didn't pay the mortgages etc was irrelavant.  They gave me absolutely nothing!................no differant to my ex!....................You get to a point and you just think there has to be another way for the moment to get on with living without issuing penal notices every 2 months, spending more on legal fee's and then end up back where you started.    France doesn't owe me anything, but England does, and when I needed help most it couldn't help me, but I believe the EU has a responsiblity for all children, english included. 

Tell your daughter to come here, its not easy by any means, but she has to have a life worth living with her children, and will need plenty of support.

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Traci's last post seems to sum up her ideas on immigrants/emigrants only too well - and Traci, most of what you say is complete bo!!ocks, many people who go to the UK nowdays from outside the EU get nothing even tho they may be British citizens.

And several nationalities within the EU get excluded from benefit also so when you catch up with the reality of benefits, post another diatribe!

And of course we only have Traci's version of the marriage, what went wrong and why her ex-husband is being so difficult, perhaps he has a different take on things.

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I suppose the 'right' answer is that she should get her husband out of the flat with a court order - a relative of mine did this to get rid of the father of her child, so my best guess is that it is possible. However it seems plain that your daughter wants to be near you so she has some support which IMHO is only natural.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course that is the right answer; the council say she should stay with the children because she will have custody; but her husband refuses to move out. He cannot handle money and as for the maintenance he says he will pay well we will believe it when we see it! He has signed the children over to my daughter, doesn't care if they are taken away from him, their other grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins (none of whom can house them by the way), has an ex wife and children he hasn't seen since his divorce and doesn't pay maintenance for so we have no exectations.

Our daughter started working a couple of evenings or weekends last summer because of the debts her husband had built up, but because she has cared for the children and not worked since her daughter was born in 2001until last year I was told categorically she is not entitled to an E106.  

Luckily we have friends here who are rallying around to get her sorted out with the authorities. She is mentally and physically exhausted. Her husband, when he is there, just says go to France, go to your parents, the council can't get me out.

When I asked about family allowance from England they told me that in normal circumstances her husband would receive the child benefit to pass onto her! But as the amount he has offered to pay is so low that wouldn't happen, but if they did I don't think she would get the money. Is that right? No, of course not. So the other option is for us to apply for it with her authorisation, but then she has no independence. the best way is to ask for child/family benefit here in France. She doesn't want benefits she wants to be independent but she has to start somewhere. Our priorities are for our daughter and grandchildren, she is now worried how he might react as he is getting at her mentally, luckily not physically. He is telling people she is taking the children and going to France; but not that he has told her to go because he will not vacate the home provided for the children.

If she or we are wrong in anyway then please tell us how we can sort things out. We have the room here, we have the love, can provide the safety they require emotionally and physically; ie they will be fed, have a roof over their heads and be happy.

 

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Yes Benjamin, I know, we are covered for all doctors visits for whatever it is, prescriptions, physio, blood tests, x-rays. I spent 2 weeks in hospital and 4 weeks in a centre de reeducation and paid only 58€ for telephone and television. We got 100% because we are on full Incapacity Benefit, according to CPAM, without hesitation.

The top up is for hospitalisation, glasses and dental. Whenever I go to the doctor, not just for 'my disability/incapacity' I am fully covered, well that is how I have been treated.

 

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[quote user="Charallais"]

He is telling people she is taking the children and going to France; but not that he has told her to go because he will not vacate the home provided for the children.[/quote]

She needs his permission in writing, before she can take the children to live abroad. If she is really convinced this is the way forward, (and you have put forward a very good case for it), then this needs to be addressed.

The other thing that occurred to me is that she could apply or a transfer, if the house/flat is in her name. He would not be able to follow her, and he would then either be given the tenancy of the current accommodation or be evicted.

Sorry I can't help, apart from to raise these issues.

 

 

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I find it quite amusing that so many retired people, who have never paid into the French system during their working (aka healthy) life, but are now happily using the French healthcare system for their retirement (read ill health) years - can be so disparaging when it comes to Traci / Coral's daughter's situation.  Sorry, in my experience a lot of men can be complete a*s*s when it comes to maintenance.  Personally, I think any man who wants his name on a birth certificate should only be entitled to same when he can provide his NI number - for future attachment to earnings order..  And yes EU immigrants in the UK do get a hell of a lot, but probably no more than Brits in France can claim.  We are part of the EEC which allows freedom of movement - so like it or lump it this is now the way of the world. 

Kathie

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[quote user="hastobe"]I find it quite amusing that so many retired people, who have never paid into the French system during their working (aka healthy) life, but are now happily using the French healthcare system for their retirement (read ill health) years - can be so disparaging when it comes to Traci / Coral's daughter's situation.  

[/quote]

I haven't been disparaging. I think I have an understanding of both their situations, though I don't feel the need to spell that out. 

I wish that Traci hadn't chosen to quote what is basically a racist diatribe, as she did pretty well in her own words, (describing her situation), without resorting to that.

OK I have very limited knowledge, but say Corals daughter had moved to France with an E106 but then when the E106 ran out, she wasn't working, and had no other income apart from Child Benefit?

What do people do then. France has a Welfare System - how would one access it in those circumstances?

I wonder whether this is all being made too complex, and that there is a simple answer that is being overlooked.

The other thing I would say is that Corals daughter may need to drop her 'I want to be independant' stance. One way or another, she will, for a while at least, be dependant on someone (her parents) or the French Welfare System.

I'm not making any judgement about that, it's a hard pill to swallow either way, especially after being dragged around/into it partly by the actions of the OH, but it might help if she swallowed it.

 

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re hastobe's comments - I have read - not 100% sure that this is correct - that the british government pays £2000 per year to the french health service towards the health care of  a british person covered by the E121. Can anyone confirm this? If so this would be better than expecting the french to bear all the cost. Just trying to remember how much I paid into the health service per month when I was working - 36 years of contributions and I hardly took anything out.  As far as Charallais and her daughter are concerned, I completely understand how she feels as at one point we were possibly going to have one of our grandchildren to live with us for similar reasons. It would have been difficult but we would have done anything to help. Pat.

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It isn't just retired people here. We have paid into this system for 26 years and will continue to do so when we leave. As far as I can ascertain for the moment we can't get around that. We would rather pay where we live.

Getting benefits in the UK is not a piece of cake, I know enough about it to know that. I'm sure that some will manage to wangle the system, but they aren't just throwing money at most people.

Traci, make no mistake, the money you get from the French is from the French, there is no EU fund for special cases who move to France or any where else. What a life you have lead, I've never been able to afford school fees for my kids and yet our money is helping you out now, do you know how used it makes me feel. And don't think that I'm against helping those in need. But really, this is just toooo much for me.

My son earns crap money and pays everything in France, he can't afford to buy anywhere,  he doesn't have a holiday home he can escape to to scrounge, he is rather like most french people leading their ordinary lives.

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Traci has a child, and in the end I would rather she was able to access benefits than not, TU.

We either agree with a level of provision that prevents a return to the old 'Poor Laws' - which are not that distant in the past - or not. 

Those laws would have been likely to separate her from her child, and that's just about the worst outcome, when as things stand, there is plenty of hope for recovery.

 

Edit. Clearly I know nothing about old French ways and means of dealing with these things. I just don't want to see children hungry, or separated from their mothers etc. any more than I would do in GB.

 

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Surely child benefit is paid into a bank account these days ? Surely if the daughter opened a Nationwide account it could be arranged for the money to be paid into that and it could be accessed from France with a debit card at a cash point. If her husband wants rid then perhaps he could be persuaded to co operate to some extent.

Does she get legal aid ? There must be groups that she could get some sort of support from ? Could her health visitor help access them if only to support her in the interim?

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