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[quote user="Teamedup"]

You can get immediate scans? Even when I was very ill they left me in a corridor at A&E from around 9am until 11pm when they got me in.

My next scan had to be booked and I had a several month wait. That was at the end of last May and I still haven't had the results in spite of my GP phoning on several occassions when I was in his surgery. I would have got them if I had waited, however the potions they give to drink, and I always have to have two carafs and not one like everyone else, actually make me ill, as does that stuff they inject which 'tastes' like meths smells. So after my scan, I had to go straight home as there were no services available for me to lie down or run to the loo.

My neighbour is a secretary at the hospital. The shelves with records on fell down in her office and the management suggested that one of the women got their mari bricoleur to fix it.

I don't understand this, there is money in this region, so why have we got what we have got and the poorer regions of France are bang up to date and can waltz in and get all this remarkable treatment. It makes no sense to me at all. I am not suggesting that we have 'better' than anyone else, but parity would be rather nice. I know that the city hospital is not well equipped as my other neighbour moved here from Lille and was surprised as to how badly equipped it was when she started work there.

[/quote]

Firstly in some ways its not really fair to compare the UK with France really I know (yet we all do it because for many it’s all we have to compare against) but I have used the A&E in Sutton (Surrey), Kingston upon Thames and Newham (the last one) and apart from the heart attack thing the service has been pretty bad in all of them. On the other hand my mum and dad lived near Worthing and its A&E was excellent in comparison, I believe there are now moves to close its A&E.

When I had my second heart attack they told me I needed an angiogram but I would have to wait 11 to 13 weeks. Because my heart condition was classed as unstable I was told I could not go home on account of if I did and had a heart attack and died my wife may sue them. I paid a couple of thousand to go to the London Independent to have it done privately (by the same guy that would have done it on the NHS!). My point is that when I visited a friend in Carcassonne the quality of the rooms and service was as good as I got in the London Independent the only difference was there were two beds in the room and not one.

As you said a long time ago it must be a post code type thing and I am sorry that the hospitals where you live seem to be so poor in comparison. It must make you very angry and be a bit upsetting when you hear what others are receiving with regards to their health care.

Could I ask, what with you being in France for so long, how does the money get divvied up with respect to health care, is it national, regional or departmental and do they all get the same cut of the cake and is it up to the locals how or where it is spent?

 

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[quote user="Will"]

13V - 'bankrupt' in the figurative sense rather than the literal. Yes, the French health system is, according to doctors and pharmacists in France and what I read in the French papers, in serious debt. The doctors tell me that it cannot go on like that, and I see their point. France is not much different in that respect from many other countries, and, like other countries, France has a national debt. In France's case I read that the health system is responsible, by itself, for the size of the national debt.

It obviously cannot go on, and slowly the problem is being addressed. The 'extra euro' you pay the doctor and which is not refunded is one small step towards that, as is the 'medicin traitant' scheme itself which cuts down on the multiple prescriptions from several doctors. Perhaps the most significant way of paying off the health service debt and trying to limit it in future is the CSG/CRDS, which I understand were introduced for that purpose.

In France the financial crisis is not apparent to the user. The practice is to provide what is required and pay for it afterwards. A laudable aim, but is it sustainable? That is the crucial question. Arguably, the true cost of the French system, and its true state, can never be known. Rather than one body - the NHS - at the centre of all funding issues, France has a multi-tier system with literally hundreds of caisses funding primary medical care - some organised regionally, others by the trades or professions of their subscribers. These are controlled by multiple tiers of bureaucracy - CPAM, CANAM, CRAM, RSI, MSA etc to name just a few. So I can easily believe what I am told and what I read about costs being out of control, but very difficult to pinpoint or to cure. The traditional French solution to such a problem seems to be to throw more cash or more fonctionnaires at it - but of course this has to be paid for some time in the future. I really cannot imagine the service being shut down, that would be unthinkable, though if you take the 'company' allusion then bankruptcy in the true sense of the word could happen, and the service would then, presumably, have to be bailed out by central government with an even more severe dent in the national debt. Remember that a debt, even a government one, has to be serviced, through interest, so it is not something that can just be ignored indefinitely all the time the system appears to be working.

It's a difficult one, because a radical reform of France's beloved health system (remember that France has a reputation for being a nation of hypochondriacs) is hardly a vote-winning strategy for any politician. Lower cotisations might be, but the health insurance component is only one of several (and retirement funds are, if I read correctly, in a similar parlous state). Whereas the way the NHS is organised does at least allow the proverbial bull to be taken by the horns, however unsavory the short-term results may be, the action is being taken for long-term good. Though how effective this will be is another debating point altogether.

So it is a political issue rather than one that directly affects the user, who, in the main, sees an excellent level of service. But for how long? - that is the point behind my argument, and I think behind what the doctors and commentators say. So I admit 'bankrupt' is probably not the right word if you take it literally. Instead, read 'unsustainable'.

[/quote]

I think we can agree that the French health

service is underfunded, and therefore it is in need of either more money or

cuts in service.  Those are the basic alternatives.  Well, all right,

there are "reforms", but which ones are there that don't cost money. 

And you are also right that "bankrupt" is probably not the right

word.  I prefer underfunded to unsustainable, but both are partly

right.  Like most social services in most countries (there are exceptions)

the medical system in France has to be funded by some method other than private

pay-as-you-go care.  The obvious disadvantage of this system (see the USA)

is that anyone who is low waged or poor gets no care.  Unless they are

dirt poor and then they get some poor care.  People and corporations,

through some means or other, have to decide if they want poor people to get the

same quality health (fire, water, education) care as well-off people. 

That always means that richer people have to pay for the poorer people. 

One way or another.  So do we want to pay for poorer people or not?

Secondly, its not really fair and I suspect, just plain wrong, to say that the

medical system is wholly responsible for the national debt.  I have not

looked it up though, so I could be wrong.  There are many other aspects of

social life, subsidies, tax breaks etc, which take up a big part of the

budget.  Ask the teachers.  Ask the firemen.  Ask the

police.  Ask the farmers.  I am willing to bet that nearly all of

them have problems getting what they think they need to do a "good

job".  Furthermore, spending on anything can be cut, saving money,

even if they don't go over the allocated budget.  In the case of health, I

understand that if they stopped treating Alzheimer people and organ failure

people (let them die), the NHS would save 7% of its budget.  So I think

you are right to say its a political and moral choice, not at all matter of

bankruptcy.  If the UK had not poured money into the NHS lately, it would

be worse than it is.  And maybe it would be way underfunded (bankrupt).

You pay your money, or you take a bad service.  I am not talking about the

filthy rich, they can always pay.

I also think you can directly compare the services.  You ask yourself what

happens when you are ill or injured.  You, in your place of residence, ask

how you get care.  If you get good care or bad care, that's the relevant

comparison.  Later, when you are better, you can debate about how much you

have to pay and whether it is worth it.  But frankly, if you are unwell,

and need care, you want it.  That's what the modern welfare state, what

solidarity, what equal treatment, actually means.  There is no logical

reason, within a strictly market capitalist system, why on the occasion of a

fire in your home, you should not have to negotiate a contract with the firemen

while the fire carries on.  That's what happened with the very first

public fire service in the USA in the late 18th century.  But we think

this is maybe not quite right.  Not nowadays.  Same for education. 

You can either go to the school funded by the state or you can negotiate

another deal.  If everyone had to negotiate a contract, it does not take a

rocket scientist to figure out who gets the best schools with the best

equipment.   Or the best care. Those who pay most privately.  Easy to

figure.  Its just what choice you make.


As for the private thing in Britain and the UK.  I think it is

sufficiently transparent here to make no difference.  We pay private

insurance companies for "top up".  That is different than the

UK.  Creates more jobs for paper pushers.  So most poor people I know

do not have a mutuelle and do not see the doctor as much as they might. 

They die earlier and are less healthy.  But in terms of service, I am

often treated at the local "private" clinic.  I was also treated

regularly, a few years back, at another specialist private clinic.  My

wife goes to some private clinics for certain kinds of care.  All of it is

free at the point of use.  It all works on the same Carte Vitale, and all

works by the same rules from the clients point of view (aside from a few little

mysteries I have never figured out).  I agree that it could be simplified,

and loads of bureaucrats should lose their jobs processing endless paper. 

But from the patient's viewpoint, it is all the same system.  In the UK, I

could not enter the door of a Nuffield or a BUPA institution.  I have not

paid my membership fee.  Here, for the private clinics I have experienced,

maybe five or ten, its the exact same system as the "state" hospitals. 

The endless contracts and payments that go on between the private and the state

are invisible to me.  But great for accountants and lawyers.

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I doubt if there is any way whatsoever that any social service can be equal in all post codes.  No possibility.  Same for schools and water treatment and so forth.  Unless it is all allocated by one central dictator with excellent data collection and people who act instantly.  Unlikely in France.  If I ever went back to the UK, one thing I would have to research is the level of care available for my specialised medical problem.  Do they have the best drugs or the second best?  Do they have the best equipment or do some people get second rate stuff?  Do doctors actually want to live in this place?  This is always the case.  People who choose their residence and don't look into the health care, are either really young or a bit naive.  Same goes for schools.  Or, in my case, I just lived somewhere for 30 years, my job "chose" the location.  So when something big went wrong, I was unfortuante enough to be where the care was less well funded.  I got second rate care.  Tough for me.  A bit sad too.

That is why I like more or less free, and more or less equal care in the UK and France, and some other richer countries.  You get some kind of care, even if you are poorer.  And if you get lucky, you get the exact same care, the exact same surgeon, the exact same drugs, the exact same hospital beds as a richer person.  We might call this progress, or civilised behaviour.  The more we go towards paying individually for what you get, the more we go towards "money talks".  Some people think that's right, and even inevitable.  I hope not.  Next time you go into the urgences, be glad you don't have to negotiate a contract or get driven another 35k to the place that accepts your membership card.

By the way, I can complain about the French system too.  At length.  But they have the right idea.

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"So most poor people I know

do not have a mutuelle and do not see the doctor as much as they might. 

They die earlier and are less healthy
."

Thats a bit: A) broadbrush and B) melodramatic isn't it?

Statistically speaking, even with a free doctors consultation every morning, this would still be the same due to lifestyle risks such as smoking,
alcohol, poor diet, violence etc?

A few years ago I watched a PBS documentary focused on health and income. They looked at Chicago and overlayed maps that detailed % of people who smoke &
drank heavily, were murdered in gang/robbery and domestic violence situations, got cancer etc and the highest overlap was in two areas following roads tower block of projects (council housing). Sad, but the point was that the cause of 'premature' death was socio-economic i.e. lifestyle. So to say that they die earlier because they can't visit the doc. as often and ignoring their diet, crime etc is a bit...whatever. 

Even if the poorest in society did see a GP each week, they would most likely still smoke, eat cheap food high in salt/fat (because its all they can afford), drink etc.

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I thought that if you were poor in France you get 100% free medical cover. If true the threshold for being poor must be set quite high as it is said many Brits coming here get totally free cover yet they buy big houses and drive big cars. How really true this is I have no idea.
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[quote user="Quillan"]I thought that if you were poor in France you get 100% free medical cover. If true the threshold for being poor must be set quite high as it is said many Brits coming here get totally free cover yet they buy big houses and drive big cars. How really true this is I have no idea.[/quote]

You can be a beneficiary for 100% medical cover if your monthly income is less than 897.35 euros for a couple. This is not very much for many French people in that particular socio-economic category, since they usually live in rented accommodation. Even if they can get some help for the rental, it is unlikely to cover the whole of the rent.

I do come across many so-called poor people in some volunteer work I do for a charity (Restos du Coeur). Many of those have very bad teeth, (I am not certain, but I think that even with 100% CMU cover, there are some dental treatments which are not free) bad complexion, and yes they unfortunately do smoke and some of them drink too.

As for the Brits (and others) who can claim CMU 100% free medical cover, they own their houses (with or without swimming pool) drive a nice car (or 2), BUT they might live off interests of their investments back in the UK or elsewhere. So they can declare as INCOME, say, 850 euros per month, and they will be eligible for free medical cover. Up to now, capital and assets were not taken into account for eligibility of CMU. Thankfully as it is terribly unfair, things are changing and very soon, capital will be taken into account.

Otherwise you could own several properties, in various countries, not officially let them, and then manage on a small income, once you have acquired all the luxuries you need to make your life comfortable.

Most people on CMU do not already have any of those luxuries.

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I must admit my Brits comment was a bit tounge in cheek because I know it goes on and I don't like it. I do wonder though if some end up on it by 'accident'. After we had filled out our first tax form which was zero because we were still renovating and the B&B was not open I got a letter and form to fill in. Not knowing what it was for at the time I asked a friend who told me it was for poor people to get free medical and explained how the system worked. I just threw it in the bin because I was not poor, I just had not earn't an income that year but I had put money aside for that. I wonder how many people have received such a form and never had it explained to them so they just filled it in and sent it off.

I am glad, if that is correct, that assets are now taken in to account. It seems greatly unfair to me that there are a few people out there ripping off the system when there are really poor people around. Not to mention as a French tax payer it's my blinking money they are effectivly stealing.

Sort of getting back to the main thread. Like those that pay their "NI" in France I whinge about the amount but given the level of service in my area that we both get it seems good value for money. It's cheaper than having BUPA in the UK and just as good (in my area).

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[quote user="oglefakes"]"So most poor people I know

do not have a mutuelle and do not see the doctor as much as they might. 

They die earlier and are less healthy
."

Thats a bit: A) broadbrush and B) melodramatic isn't it?

Statistically speaking, even with a free doctors consultation every morning, this would still be the same due to lifestyle risks such as smoking,
alcohol, poor diet, violence etc?

A few years ago I watched a PBS documentary focused on health and income. They looked at Chicago and overlayed maps that detailed % of people who smoke &
drank heavily, were murdered in gang/robbery and domestic violence situations, got cancer etc and the highest overlap was in two areas following roads tower block of projects (council housing). Sad, but the point was that the cause of 'premature' death was socio-economic i.e. lifestyle. So to say that they die earlier because they can't visit the doc. as often and ignoring their diet, crime etc is a bit...whatever. 

Even if the poorest in society did see a GP each week, they would most likely still smoke, eat cheap food high in salt/fat (because its all they can afford), drink etc.

[/quote]

You are totally correct.  I keep trying to make my posts shorter, and leave out the complexities, but I end up with "reasoning" and writing that is.... the word I would use is "simplistic".  What I wrote IS quite melodramtic, but so is being poor.  I still remember talking to one of my pals who si poor.  The question of the day was not what kind of cheese to buy, but whether they could afford cheese this week.  And it is broadbrush as well, as there are some poor people who are healthy.  I SHOULD have said that, in addition to the various housing, income, food, drug abuse, racial and other handicaps or disadvantages, poor people ALSO have less access to good medical care.  In America and in France.  I am not talking about the dirt poor, in France they get 100% coverage.  I talking mostly about the nearly dirt poor or working poor.  These days they get put together in France under the category "precarious".  Therefore, taking all that into account, they die sooner and are more ill.  Although of course there are some "well-off diseases" too.  In addition I could have said that, agreeing with you, orthodox western medicine, the one that gets paid for by NHS and French health care, is not very good at prevention, and generaly tends to deal with symptoms and "curing diseases" rather than root causes.  So seeing a doctor might not help anyone all that much in terms of "good health", in Britain or the UK.  But often it might prevent them from dying of a disease or catch it early enough to be able to "fix it".  Anyway, it would be good to have the choice.  My wife and I, who are NOT dirt poor, have to make the annual decision to pay for the mutuelle or take a chance that we will spend less than the insurance premium.  The system of "forced" private health insurance that exists in France is not all that great for the nearly poor or working poor.  I prefer the British system in that respect.

Thanks for reading the post and noticing the simplistic bits.

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T.V.  I think the root cause of the problem - regardless of the country - is that we are all living too long [:)]

A 'free' system is great so long as most people work/contribute for many years, then politely disappear shortly after retirement. But as that isn't the case, and there are many new (read expensive) treatments insurance costs, be they funded by the state or individual, will continue to rise.

Yep, US style health care virtually precludes the poor - not really true actually, as there are MANY charities - and a free system is so under pressure that you might die before the operation.  My uncle in Australia was diagnosed with cancer last thursday and was operated on today (saturday). The same with my granmother; diagnosed one day and operated on the next. The system there isn't free. You pay about 30e to see a doctor, then get about 22e reimbursed by the health care system. They have problems, such as laying on a trolley for hours waiting for attention, but are very proactive for life threatening things. If you are dirt poor, its all free, much like you describe the French system. They aspire to a free system but make compromise, but it's hard to balance free vs. soon. We could go on about this for ages, but I think my carpal tunnel is playing up again. [:D]

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[quote user="oglefakes"]My uncle in Australia was diagnosed with cancer last thursday and was operated on today (saturday). The same with my granmother; diagnosed one day and operated on the next.

[/quote]

My mother was diagnosed with (breast) cancer and operated on two months later.  Unfortunately, while she was in hospital recovering from the surgery she caught an infection - so her radio therapy was delayed by four months while they tried to get the infection under control.

All I can say is TG we have private health insurance..

Kathie

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Twice, when needed, the NHS have been very quick, in the case of my fathers cancer he was offered an op  4 days after diagnosis, but chose to wait a week and when my broken shoulder needed an op we thought we would have to opt for private but they offered an apointment 5 days later, but having said that the hospital has improved a lot of late and I believe it is the biggest non teaching hospital in the country.

On the other hand a 96 year old female relative with a kidney infection, was moved 6 times in 4 days in a hospital just 20 miles away. She died.

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[quote user="oglefakes"]T.V.  I think the root cause of the problem - regardless of the country - is that we are all living too long [:)]

[/quote]

Actually, one thing that has struck me lately, and I have no data to back this up, is how many births go wrong and how many younger people have quite serious and annoying medical conditions.  When I was young, we didn't have these problems of allergies of various sorts, huge numbers with asthma and a number of other kinds of problems that seem to have arisen in the last three decades or so. 

On the other hand, you are also correct.  The problem is the money we all spend on the last six months of our lives.  I have been told huge percentages of total lifetime medical expenditure that occur during those last days.  So although you put in a smiley, it is a serious problem.  My mum is just hitting the middle stages of Alzheimer.  When she has to have 24/7 lockup and care, I should think it will cost all their savings and then they will then go into a place that smells like urine and has food you can't eat.  We kids checked out the cost, and if all three of us put out 25% of our gross income, we still could not pay the bills.  For old folks, France seems slightly worse than Britain, but both are appalling.  I guess we have to decide if we look after people outside the family before death, or just let them die.  Or maybe do some more revisoin of the laws and education about suicides, or assisted suicides.

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

[:D] Bad LG, ofcourse they would as only 'me' and a couple of others have had bad experiences and apparently everyone else and everyone french they know must have all had good ones. My isn't it just amazing really

[/quote]

I was hanging around with my pals, the cyclists, on market day.  The topic of medcial care at the local clinic came up.  One after the other, they all had a tale to tell about a missed diagnosis, a mistake, bad treatment.  All were true to some extent, I am sure.  They are honest guys.  Later in the day, I returned to the group after doing some errands.  They were talking about all the cheating in the cycling world, drugs and so forth.  Thought they were all cheaters and liars.  Toward the end of the morning I returned again, and they were on about builders.  Maybe its something about groups.  Or maybe the French.  If you have only a happy story to tell, it is not very interesting.  I went to the doctor, he prescribed me the medicine and it worked.  I went to the doctor and he gave me a guy's number for specialist care, I rang him.  I got an appointment really fast.  Where's the story?  Now a mistake, that's a story.  Me, I find these tales much the same whether they are plumbers, lawyers or doctors and nurses.  I have had some terrible ones of all those types.  We have a great plumber now, and my local gastro is really good.  Sometimes I think people who have troubles with medical systems have never tried to get a house built or fixed up.  Or might not have a car that needs attention.  Its all the same.  Anyway I don't reckon the French are much better educated or trained.  I just think they spend more money, and the stuff around the actual doctoring is much better funded, newer, easier and better. 

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It depends what you mean by a bad experience - it's all relative. I had to go to a huge hospital in Toulouse for a couple of days and the bed was terrible, the nurse said they can't afford new ones. Then there was the fiasco with a commode - don't ask. But the staff were kind and did their best. And I had immediate treatment. Then I returned to Auch hospital and it was small and cosy and better equipped. But it all seemed ok compared with UK. Can't avoid the comparison. Pat.
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If you have only a happy story to tell, it is not very interesting.

many many moons ago I was in the Army and at graduation parade, the drill sargeant said something like "if you do this perfectly, no one will remember. If you make a c0ckup, no one will forget" Same goes for healthcare.[:)]

As you say T.V. happy stories don't get repeated very often. For example have you ever heard the one about "I flicked the light switch the other day and the lights came on"? or "I picked up the telephone to make a call and I had a dial tone"?

Not very interesting are they[:P], even though it impresses me when you think about all the potential problems between the power station and your home, or the global telephone network.

At the end of the day, most of us like a whinge now and then.

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[quote user="oglefakes"]
At the end of the day, most of us like a whinge now and then.


[/quote]

True, but on this forum, you are ONLY allowed to whinge about UK institutions and only negative people whinge about perfect haloed French institutions.

I’ll whinge about the UK if I move back or about Spain if I move there.

In the meantime, re my country of residence; did anyone see that documentary a few days ago featuring those poor retired women having to work (some illegally) to supplement their meagre pensions?  It seems this is more and more common and it’s truly disgusting that an ever increasing number are obliged to, just to make ends meet.

Please don’t take my whinging away, as it’s probably the only native characteristic I’ve developed to date[;-)]

 

Edit:

Mods: Don't know why this has posted twice. Could one be deleted please as I can't seem to do it. Merci!

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[quote user="oglefakes"]
At the end of the day, most of us like a whinge now and then.


[/quote]

True, but on this forum, you are ONLY allowed to whinge about UK institutions and only negative people whinge about perfect haloed French institutions.

I’ll whinge about the UK if I move back or about Spain if I move there.

In the meantime, re my country of residence; did anyone see that documentary a few days ago featuring those poor retired women having to work (some illegally) to supplement their meagre pensions?  It seems this is more and more common and it’s truly disgusting that an ever increasing number are obliged to, just to make ends meet.

Please don’t take my whinging away, as it’s probably the only native characteristic I’ve developed to date[;-)]

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[quote user="LanguedocGal"]

Please don’t take my whinging away, as it’s probably the only native characteristic I’ve developed to date[;-)]

[/quote]

ROFL!!!!!!!

Here's a nice story.  When my daughter was in A&E in Southampton, there was a young Australian doctor on duty who dealt with her.   He said that a big epileptic fit takes a huge amount of energy, and it was very important to replace that energy quickly.   Give her some chocolate now that she's sitting up again, he said.  We can't, we said, we left the house with no money.   So he went and got her a bar of chocolate from the vending machine himself.   I loved that young man, and I hope that he's happy and successful now, whatever he's doing.  

And THAT is how little it takes to make me happy.  A bar of chocolate!  [:)]   No, I mean a little bit of human kindness, and in my experience Montpellier is sadly lacking in that.   They may have better machines, I don't know, but if you come out feeling abused, the machines lose their importance somehow.        

It probably is just funding, leading to the staff being overworked, with a little bit of French customer service thrown in!  [:)]

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[quote user="Teamedup"]

How can any hospital run with an A&E with  medical staff immediately disponible amazes me.What are they sat around doing?  Financially how does that work? And with the trou in the seçu budget, well how long will this priviledge last?

[/quote]

I am not sure what your work experience is or has been TU, but it does not seem a mystery to me at all that there are "seemingly idle" people about in A and E.  In fact, there are often empty beds in a hospital, empty rooms in a school, offices not being used at all hours of the day in an office building or university.  There are also people who are doing things like ordering new supplies, tidying up, catching up on what is going on, being in meetings, and doing the endless parts of some jobs that are not the "dramatic" part of the job.  Like fixing wounded people.  Or lecturing to students in a classroom.  Or working on an actual car that is in for repair.  So I would imagine the A and E people are doing those kinds of boring, but necessary jobs when the accident rolls up.  They then immmediately stop or postpone the boring job and do the dramatic one.  This all seems quite normal to me.  And thanks goodness for it.  You might have bad experiences in your area, because some cost benefit guy rolled up and said they should chop the staff.  They treated the hospital (or the school), like  factory assembly line or a supermarket checkout.  It is important in human services to "catch up", tidy up, order new stuff and so forth.  Maybe I am wrong, and everyone should be doing the dramitic bit all the time.  I bet if you ask most medical staff they will tell you there are lighter times and heavier.  Like Saturday night in a big city A and E.  I expect that is pretty busy.  Then you hope someone else has ordered the supplies and there is little time for gossip.  I can tell you from being in hospitals a lot that the nurses work like crazy sometimes, and sometimes they stand around and chat.  So do many people, unless they have assembly line type  work, usually badly paid, with awful bosses.

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[quote user="LanguedocGal"]

In the meantime, re my country of residence; did anyone see that documentary a few days ago featuring those poor retired women having to work (some illegally) to supplement their meagre pensions?  It seems this is more and more common and it’s truly disgusting that an ever increasing number are obliged to, just to make ends meet.

[/quote]

Getting better known in France under the label of "précarité".  Happens to people who work too, who need to supplement their meagre pay with either nothing or more work.  Mind you, this also happens in the UK, so you can criticise it there as well.  I prefer criticise to whinge.  Whinge sounds like a defective character trait, whereas criticising something means you noticed it and think its awful and are willing to take the flak for saying so, regardless of your character traits.  

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[quote user="TreizeVents"][quote user="Teamedup"]

How can any hospital run with an A&E with  medical staff immediately disponible amazes me.What are they sat around doing?  Financially how does that work? And with the trou in the seçu budget, well how long will this priviledge last?

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I am not sure what your work experience is or has been TU, but it does not seem a mystery to me at all that there are "seemingly idle" people about in A and E.  In fact, there are often empty beds in a hospital, empty rooms in a school, offices not being used at all hours of the day in an office building or university.  There are also people who are doing things like ordering new supplies, tidying up, catching up on what is going on, being in meetings, and doing the endless parts of some jobs that are not the "dramatic" part of the job.  Like fixing wounded people.  Or lecturing to students in a classroom.  Or working on an actual car that is in for repair.  So I would imagine the A and E people are doing those kinds of boring, but necessary jobs when the accident rolls up.  They then immmediately stop or postpone the boring job and do the dramatic one.  This all seems quite normal to me.  And thanks goodness for it.  You might have bad experiences in your area, because some cost benefit guy rolled up and said they should chop the staff.  They treated the hospital (or the school), like  factory assembly line or a supermarket checkout.  It is important in human services to "catch up", tidy up, order new stuff and so forth.  Maybe I am wrong, and everyone should be doing the dramitic bit all the time.  I bet if you ask most medical staff they will tell you there are lighter times and heavier.  Like Saturday night in a big city A and E.  I expect that is pretty busy.  Then you hope someone else has ordered the supplies and there is little time for gossip.  I can tell you from being in hospitals a lot that the nurses work like crazy sometimes, and sometimes they stand around and chat.  So do many people, unless they have assembly line type  work, usually badly paid, with awful bosses.
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I have to say that I have not seen anyone 'idling' in our A&E or hospital. They say that they are understaffed and I believe them. I have not seen empty beds either. One out and one  in again very quickly. I still don't understand how hospitals in some regions can have staff 'instantly available, ofcourse I had taken into account 'other' jobs, but when everyone says that they get instant attention, then there is something weird and unusual and budgeting that I simply do not understand.

I am going to ask about how health budgets are done.

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[quote user="oglefakes"]T.V.  I think the root cause of the problem - regardless of the country - is that we are all living too long [:)]

 My uncle in Australia was diagnosed with cancer last thursday and was operated on today (saturday). The same with my granmother; diagnosed one day and operated on the next. The system there isn't free. You pay about 30e to see a doctor, then get about 22e reimbursed by the health care system. They have problems, such as laying on a trolley for hours waiting for attention, but are very proactive for life threatening things. If you are dirt poor, its all free, much like you describe the French system. They aspire to a free system but make compromise, but it's hard to balance free vs. soon. We could go on about this for ages, but I think my carpal tunnel is playing up again. [:D]


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Thats very interesting, in 2004 I was admitted to hospital in Australia in the final phase of Falciparum Malaria, they saved my life, the care was excellent and I even had a private room, at the end of my stay I asked about payment (before it was the last thing on my mind during bouts of consciousness), I had an E111 and also long term travel insurance.

They told me "nothing to pay, you are from Britain" but didn't even look at my passport!

In fact I was discharged early because of the expected drunken stabbings over the Christmas break, I got a letter from the surgeon to the airline and my UK doctor allowing me to travel but insisting that the blood testing recommence straight away.

My UK surgery would not let me see a Doctor for 2 weeks after again showing her the letter the receptionist said it was not deemed a priority, I asked her if she knew what Malaria was and she didn't.

I finally went directly to the hospital and got the blood testing resumed, they could not discuss the results with me but instead sent them to my surgery, every time I went there I was told "computer says no!!!) you don't need to keep bothering us we will contact you if there is any concern.

Guess what? They didnt, the next time I returned because I was still not recovering she said "there is a note here on the computer that you must contact the doctor urgently" it had been there one month.

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[quote user="LanguedocGal"]

[quote user="oglefakes"]

At the end of the day, most of us like a whinge now and then.

[/quote]

True, but on this forum, you are ONLY allowed to whinge about UK institutions and only negative people whinge about perfect haloed French institutions.

[/quote]

So, you haven't read the recent thread about customer service in France and you've never read the Finance section to find out what we incomers think of French banks.  [:D]

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[quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="LanguedocGal"]

[quote user="oglefakes"]
At the end of the day, most of us like a whinge now and then.
[/quote]

True, but on this forum, you are ONLY allowed to whinge about UK institutions and only negative people whinge about perfect haloed French institutions.


[/quote]

So, you haven't read the recent thread about customer service in France and you've never read the Finance section to find out what we incomers think of French banks.  [:D]

[/quote]

Benjamin, I missed those threads. If I came across any Brit immigrant who thinks the French Banking System and level of customer service in general are haloed turf, I’d have to do my civic duty as a French resident and get the lads and lasses who issue straitjackets to pay them a visit. [6]

However, point taken.[:D]

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