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french casualty department


La Vette
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Yesterday I had my first experience of having to go to the Urgence.  I had fallen over and twisted my ankle.  From arriving where they met me at the car with a wheelchair to being wheeled back to the car took a total of 37 minutes.  I didnt have to wait at all and was seen immediately by two nurses who took my details, followed by the doctor who examined me, sent me for xrays and had the films in the lightbox by the time I was wheeled back.  While he was telling me that it was not broken and giving me a prescription for anti inflammatories and pain killers an aide was putting a splint on my leg.  IT WAS WONDERFUL!!!  Beats the NHS anyday.
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And we have to wait for to six hours maybe more, and your point is?

How can any hospital run with an A&E with  medical staff immediately disponible amazes me.What are they sat around doing?  Financially how does that work? And with the trou in the seçu budget, well how long will this priviledge last?

Yes I know of friends on holiday who have had just the same happened. My casse cou son was at les urgences toooo frequently, it never changed. If anyone depends on 'instant' treatment in all of France, then don't.

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Thanks ali - I am going to be on crutches for around 12 days and will be stir crazy by then.

Teamedup - I didnt understand your post, you have obviously had a bad experience at some time.  Where did you wait for 6 hours, sounds like the NHS to me.

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[quote user="La Vette"]

Where did you wait for 6 hours, sounds like the NHS to me.

[/quote]

I know that the French Health service is very good, but is it not time in the main to stop knocking the NHS where improvements have been excellent with greatly reduced waiting times. I have seen the NHS in action recently on two occasions for non emergency treatment and I have nothing but praise for the speed  of treatment and being referred to a specialist and getting an appointment within 3 days.

Baz

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[quote user="Baz"][quote user="La Vette"]

Where did you wait for 6 hours, sounds like the NHS to me.

[/quote]

I know that the French Health service is very good, but is it not time in the main to stop knocking the NHS where improvements have been excellent with greatly reduced waiting times. 

Baz

[/quote]

Baz, I think you are being extremely unreasonable.  What else would some of these people have to do if they didn't have the UK to bash on a regular basis? [:D]

I recently had very good service from my local casualty here (languedoc) too but I'm hardly going to insinuate that it's the same experience everywhere in France. The fact that it was a unit in a small town was clearly a factor. What struck me was how few patients there were at around 9pm. If I hadn't been seen to quickly, I would have wondered why.

 

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Because the French and British systems are so different it is not really fair to compare the French system with the NHS. It is rather closer (but still not equivalent) to the BUPA-type private clinics. The NHS is almost entirely cost-driven, while in France they tend to give the treatment first then sort out afterwards how it is to be paid for. Both systems have their good and bad points, the bad side of the French system is that it is in a far worse financial state than many people believe from the service they get. Pretty well bankrupt in fact. TU is right, it is possible to experience a long wait, particularly in the big hospitals, though it is far from universal. I have also heard of people getting poor treatment in France for broken bones etc, which has had to be sorted out under the NHS, but again others have had no problems, so it does sound as if it can be a bit of a lottery, even in France
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[quote user="Baz"][quote user="La Vette"]

Where did you wait for 6 hours, sounds like the NHS to me.

[/quote]

I know that the French Health service is very good, but is it not time in the main to stop knocking the NHS where improvements have been excellent with greatly reduced waiting times. I have seen the NHS in action recently on two occasions for non emergency treatment and I have nothing but praise for the speed  of treatment and being referred to a specialist and getting an appointment within 3 days.

Baz

[/quote]

The weekend before last my son tripped and hurt his ankle (and no he wasn't drunk !). He arrived at Swansea A&E dept. at about 1.30am on Saturday night / Sunday morning. When he was finally seen at about 5am he was told that x-ray was very busy and he could wait if he wanted but they probably wouldn't get around to seeing him until about 11am.  He decided to go home, even though he was in a lot of pain, and went back again on Monday morning.  So yes, the French system is more efficient and no, don't believe every thing you read about NHS waiting times.

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The hospital/clinic were you go varies greatly in lengths of time to be treated. I had to go to the nearby private clinic urgences a few weeks back to collect my son an dhis friend who had an accident whilst they were playing tennis and to bring their car back. I took over three hours to get the cut sutured, the two wrists ex-rayed andthe doctor to check the injured boy over and it was pretty expensive - 87€ in total only payable by cheque or cash, no bank cards. Yet at the main hospital urgences my son was examined, treated and released within one hour when he crushed his hand in the door at Lycée, thankfully he is covered by the Professional Lycée being classed as travail and it was all free.
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Certainly in the UK the time of day you go to A&E affects the quality and speed of treatment you receive. Obviously in most emergencies you can't choose but my husband has a chronic condition that needs urgent treatment on occasion so we sometimes go to A&E before things reach crisis proportions. We had to go  the other day as a problem was looming but by going at lunchtime, things were very quiet and we received almost one to one care from people who seemed relieved to have something to do. Had we waited for a full blown crisis, it would probably have been round when the pubs come out and it gets ugly in A&E. There's often a lot of spare capacity in the daytime because staff have to be available for any sudden catastrophes. I assume that this would be the same in France.
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I had the 23 year-old daughter of a French friend staying with me in London, who developed chest pains one afternoon, and difficulty breathing.

I took her to A&E at Charing Cross hospital in Hammersmith. The very mention of the word "chest pain" fast-tracked her, and she was seen in minutes. A battery of tests was run (I was by her side in case of necessary interpretation - though the doc sent me away when she wanted to ask the girl if she might be pregnant!). In the end no treatment was deemed necessary, as tests all proved negative.

The girl, and her mother (after hearing about it) were staggered at the quality of the care she received; and the speed at which she was dealt with; and how pleasant the whole thing was (don't know where they were comparing it with: Paris, Lyon or Marseille I guess, where one or the other had lived). And of course that all was free, with no formalities at all, except just filling in a form giving my address.

She's coming to stay again in May.  I hope we don't have to set off down the same road this time though!

Angela

 

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[quote user="La Vette"]Yesterday I had my first experience of having to go to the Urgence.  I had fallen over and twisted my ankle.  From arriving where they met me at the car with a wheelchair to being wheeled back to the car took a total of 37 minutes.  I didnt have to wait at all and was seen immediately by two nurses who took my details, followed by the doctor who examined me, sent me for xrays and had the films in the lightbox by the time I was wheeled back.  While he was telling me that it was not broken and giving me a prescription for anti inflammatories and pain killers an aide was putting a splint on my leg.  IT WAS WONDERFUL!!!  Beats the NHS anyday.[/quote]

La Vette .................

I hope that you won't be put off in posting a good news story about France by some of the 'doom & gloom' flak that you've received.

Of course the treatment won't be as good as you received, everywhere in France - nobody is naive enough to believe that.  However, my experience (admittedly not of A & E) has been nothing but exemplary over here, although I accept totally the points that Will makes about the funding of the system.  That however, is surely a different issue. Why not aspire to excellence of service / care?

As for the UK, fine. Many improvements, I'm sure.  But in the town I left over 2 yrs ago, they shut the A & E recently - it was in a hospital 1 mile from the motorway and in a place with 80k+ inhabitants and moved it 20 miles up the road.  Can anybody seriously tell me that that makes sense?  Oh and in case anybody wonders why I should bother, I still have a son living there who might (God forbid) have a prang or a household accident tomorrow.  

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In the UK the standard of treatment you get depends on where you live.  For example, I recently telephoned to ask for an appointment to see my GP.  I telephoned on Monday of this week and was told the first available appointment with him was two weeks the following Wednesday.  If I was prepared to see any doctor, then I could see a locum the following week. 

The following day my son needed to see his GP (a different practice just a mile up the road) .  He was offered a choice of three appointments (all with his own GP) within 24 hours.

Kathie

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Eslier that must be Morriston?   I used to do medical negligence in the UK and know that hospital particularly well!    I am not sure but Singleton does not open A and E wise on Saturday nights.  If it is Singleton I know that hospital as well.

In the UK my wife was under the care of the National Hospital for Rheumatic Diseases and they were wonderful absolutely wonderful.  Our Consultant here is a very nice guy but history is with the UK hence the setting up of the above hospital in the 1700's.

However and I hear what people are saying as to the financial state of the French system but some of that is to do with the French themselves for they only judge how ill they are but the number of packets that they leave with from the Pharmacy.

I have used A and E here twice and the system works but of course pay back and there must be a pay back in any system is surely waiting in the wings?

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[quote user="Llwyncelyn"]

Eslier that must be Morriston?   I used to do medical negligence in the UK and know that hospital particularly well!    I am not sure but Singleton does not open A and E wise on Saturday nights.  If it is Singleton I know that hospital as well.

[/quote]

Yes, in fact he went to Singleton first and was told to go up to Morriston.    To be fair to the NHS, if you have a critical condition then I am sure yu will nearly always receive good prompt treatment that is amongst the best in the world.

Since living France however our experience of the health system is that you receive good prompt treatment for all things. For example, last summer a guest of ours tripped over and broke her wrist on a Saturday evening. We went with her to the hospital in our nearest French town, arriving at about 10.30pm. She was ushered straight through to the treatment area whilst we assisted her husband with the paperwork. She left the hospital again after just an hour having had an x-ray and the wrist being put in plaster.  I can't imagine receiving such prompt treatment in any NHS hospital on a Saturday evening anywhere in the UK.

I am sure the French health system has its problems but on the whole it seems to live up well to being the best healthcare system in the world.

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I think that if we have had a bad experience with hte NHS we would natrually compare it with the French system.

In my case I was diagnosed with Hyperparathyroidism (too much calcium in the blood) in the UK. My GP said that there were no 18 month waiting lists anymore, just 6 months to see a specialist, 6 months for a scan and 6 months for a minor operation. To me this makes 18 months so I assume that the UK government is fiddling he figures again.

My French doctor sent me for the scan within 2 weeks! that was 12 months saved.

I don't think that employing a team of accountants at a hospital in the UK makes a better NHS, but I am sure that they can think up more ways of messing with the figures to show that they are better than they were.

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[:-))] I worked out last night how often we had been to A&E. And who went. I have been twice in the last four years. Once because my GP sent me and I don't think I should have gone anyway and then last last year. I timed my visit last year and was right about how to time it  as it happened, and  I was taken in very very quickly. The suite to that was disgusting and disgraceful and my full day and night on A&E was a nightmare. The rest of my stay in hospital was really awful too.

 

Our youngest son doesn't know when to stop trying, to stop pushing, at any sport he does and would always try and go further than others, that is probably why he ended up being a french champion at one point. The price was injury. Hence we had quite a few visits with him over the years. He didn't reserve his casse cou antics to France though and we had him in A&E in the UK twice in two different hospitals. Truthfully between our city hospital here and the ones in the UK there was absolutely no difference in waiting times at all or treatment.

He never for whatever reason managed to break or strain anything when we were in these obviously 'rich' regions of France for  health care who have the moyen to have staff 'awaiting' patients. Financially I have no idea how that can work. And it did make me think a few years ago when we were in Brittany visiting english friends on holiday there. Their son had broken his arm on holiday and they were extolling the virtues of the french health service. They had gone into an empty waiting room, were seen and treated immediately and left to an also empty waiting room.

With the Seçu and it's huge black hole and hospitals like ours with staff shortages, just how can any hospital afford to have staff 'wating' for patients. Even if ours were full staffed, I would doubt that we would have instant accessibility to them, in fact I would think that this would never happen. People who are seen instantly are usually brought in by the pompiers, but even then I have seen trolley's queued up with what looks like badly injured people  and fire men stood with them waiting as a triage is most certainly done and some were left along with the rest of us.

Also when we have been waiting and I have heard them stop the 'walking' wounded from coming in and have sent them off 20-30 kms to the hospital in the next city.

Apart from myself, in spite of the long waiting times, as I said 6 hours was pretty normal, sometimes more, rarely less, the treatment received was 'correct'.  I can't say that I like these long waiting times and very hard in both countries with a child in pain. But what can you do.

I have no idea what any of the big cities are like in France. I remember SB saying that she had a very bad time with the A&E at Montpelier a few years ago. And the lady in the next bed to me last year got the pompiers to drive her 80kms to the city hospital as she refused to go to the one only a couple of miles down the road from where she lived, so what that must be like I have no idea.

And apart from one uncle and now his son in law, the medical treatment my family has received in the NEof England has been fine. It hasn't worried me when serious illness has struck at all as the doctors and hospitals have been on the ball so far. And GP's will always see them same day if they phone early or next day latest. But that is the NE of England.

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I have experienced A&E in France and in the UK. Even if you cannot compare the two, I know which one left me feeling worse.

In the UK, I fell down some steps in at home in the middle of the night twisted my ankle very badly. It swelled to the size of a marrow and Mr Clair drove me to St Richard's hospital in Chichester.

To his surprise (I was in spasms and did not notice) , the A&E Dept. was empty and the nurse locked the door after us. We noticed a few men in white coats closely hugging the walls of the corridor leading to the booths and a violent noisy racket ensued. For a few seconds, we thought we were unpaid extras in an episode of Casualty! It turned out that a drug addict had been threatening a nurse and the men in white coats were policemen pretending to be doctors and trying to pacify him before anyone got hurt...!

After the commotion, my ankle was bandaged, I was given some painkillers and asked to return later in the morning for an X-Ray. Arriving in a taxi, I hobbled and skipped to the A&E reception desk, waited for 3 hours and got an X-Ray. The hospital doctor refused to sign me off sick, saying as I had a desk job, I should simply try to keep the weight off the ankle. I taxied back to my GP to get a sick note for a week.

After a couple of days, my sister (French nurse) got very forceful with me down the phone and made me return to my GP, who realised there was something wrong. He sent me back to the hospital with a letter explaining why he wanted another urgent X-Ray and good job he did, as I had broken several metatarsals, which the hospital GP had failed to notice...

Foot and leg in plaster, 1 month off sick...

In France a couple of years ago, my Smart and I accidentaly went ice-skating in a sheet of black ice. The pompiers arrived within 15mn with an ambulance (and a team carrying car cutting equipment). The gendarmes followed, took all the details, asking who they should notify. In the ambulance, between the heart monitoring and the blood pressure measuring (it had gone up to 28/14!!), I was asked which of the two hospitals in Aurillac I wanted to go to.

Once there, I was wheeled to a room and prodded before being wheeled for extensive X-Rays of the shoulder, chest and hips, where the seatbelt had gripped me into my seat. Once it had been established there was no damage other than heavy bruising, I was handed over some paperwork to give to my employer and a 3 week sick note.

Mr Clair had arrived with my Carte Vitale by then and we drove home shortly afterwards.

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I had my first experience of the French A and E last year.  Son trapped his fingers in a door at school and so I got a phone call to come and get him.  We went straight to the hospital, where he was seen within 10 minutes.  It was obvious we were English and when I told them we lived here they asked for my carte vital details.  At the time I was still waitingfor the number to come through, so told them I didn't have one but had applied.  None of that seemed to matter and my son had xrays and stitches and we went home with in the hour.  I was asked to bring in my CV details when they came through which I did the following week and when I asked for the invoice I was told it would be posted to me.  A month later I received an invoice for 14.00 euros.

I was very impressed.

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As has been said , I feel it depends on time of day, the patients history and what other emergencies are in A&E at the time.

I am a frequent user of the departememt both in UK and France, I have waited 5 hours in UK and on the next visit been in and out within 10 mins....(this when youngest was bored in Assembly in UK and wound a loose bit of very fine knicker elastic so tight round her finger that it was blue/white....the Triage nurse used the instrument that normaly takes stiches out)

We were through A&E so quick on one visit in France after being XRayed and bandaged that I forgot to fill out my cheque stub!

I phoned my dad the other day and he informed me he had had a bad fall , he mentioned going to casualty and having an X ray , seeing a doctor and given follow up instructions, he didn't mention the length of time he was there, that said , it could not have been too long as he would have mentioned it , and commented that he had been late for the meal he would have normaly eaten (he is diabetic and ensures he eats every 4 hours!)

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The difficulty in this question is that all any of us can do is speak of personal experience. I have two examples of emergency treatment in our local French hospital. In the first the patient had palpitations and was seen immediately - there was no-one else in the waiting room. In the second a six year olds foot had been run over and she couldn't be seen because the ( presumably only ) doctor was out on an emergency and there were about half a dozen people in the waiting room. It took about two and half hours altogether.

This in a small hospital of the kind I think no longer exists in the UK.

When my OH fell off a ladder in the UK it was unfortunately on a Saturday evening and the emergency department in our nearest city was full of drunks who had been fighting and inmates of the local prison who had also been fighting and were shackled to trolleys. The wait was about five hours.

I don't think it's possible to make valid comparisons in such different localities.

Hoddy

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Very true Hoddy,

I have been unfortunate enough to make good use of A&E departments of both small and large hospitals in both UK and France, mostly broken bones, but also with one broken tendon which has involved several visits to A&E (long story).  In my own experience all the UK A&E involved long waits for treatment, more long waits for x-rays, etc., even notably a six hour wait on a quiet Sunday morning arriving at 0900 hours in Durham.  It was almost as if they were trying to discourage people from using the service, even though in each case I was found to have a broken bone, or in one case much later the break was discovered.  However, a triage system was in place and cases deemed urgent went straight through.  In France A&E I have never been kept waiting for more than 30 minutes for initial assessment, usually less, and after that follow up such as x-rays was rapid.

However, in my particular experience, I have found that the orthopedic surgery required was excellent in UK (apart from one surgeon), but in my case the surgery in France was terrible.  I have had three bungled operations in France, such that I am now going back to UK for private treatment to try to at least partially rectify the damage done in France.

It is my personal view that basic health care, and follow up care from eg Infirmiers in France is excellent.  However, when it comes to complicated surgery forget France and go to UK.

David

 

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Sorry about my good news item.  I dont think I will bother posting anymore as you seem to take pleasure in cutting people to pieces.  I do hope those of you who actually live here and worry about 'first experiences' will feel more comfortable about going to places.  I have had lots of 'good' first experiences that I was warned would be terrible, bureaucratic, etc by people on forums.  There are lots of things that are a bit nervewracking here, even if it is only the language difference - where is the harm in telling people that it is not that difficult.  Mind you, when you have made more than 5,000 posts it is not difficult to see that you sit at your computer waiting for a chance to have a go at someone.  You know who I mean.
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I don't think anybody has any reason to apologise, personal experience is always valid, be it good or bad.

I have no experience of French A&E and none of the same in Britain in  more recent years, so can't contribute directly. I did note what La Vette had said abut bureaucracy though and have plenty of encounters with that. I find, on the whole, that if one is prepared for dealing with the more awkward sort of official, bank employee, etc, then if you get a helpful one it is a bonus, and if you do get a jobsworth then you have information and documents to hand, and have thought about the words to use in advance, which makes it much easier. In fact by going prepared, either the officials are caught a little off guard because here is an English person who has actually done some homework, or you are just less fazed by the bureaucrats - I'm not sure which, but it works either way. So warning that something could prove difficult, time-consuming, or expensive, seems to be to be helpful rather than negative. Just my personal view, anyway.

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