Jump to content

E106 / French Health System


cs
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi,

I am getting slightly confused with all the different bits of information I've read.  We've taken early retirement at ages 53 & 52 and will be departing shortly on a permanent basis, we know the E106 will give us up to a maximum of 2 years without paying into the french system other than top up insurance but, to register the E106 at the local CPAM office is a UK address a requirement, as we won't have one?  An article we have just read (not on this site) gives the impression that without a UK address the E106 will be worthless.  This means, we think, that we would have to pay into the system via the social security tax straight away.  Can anyone please enlighten us.

Also, Social Charges - can someone explain what this is as originally we were getting this tangled up with social security.

Many thanks in advance.

Chris 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there

You don't need a UK address to register with CPAM.  You do need a French address.  You need to take with you when you go to the CPAM office:  E106, French utility bill (for address), Birth certificates, marriage certificates, RIB.  Take copies of EVERYTHING before you go.    I think that is all we took with us and all was sweetness and light!!

Sorry - can't help with the social charges as I don't really understand them myself, but there are plenty of very knowledgeable people on this site.

Good luck with your move

Miszter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="miszter"]

Hi there

You don't need a UK address to register with CPAM.  You do need a French address.  You need to take with you when you go to the CPAM office:  E106, French utility bill (for address), Birth certificates, marriage certificates, RIB.  Take copies of EVERYTHING before you go.    I think that is all we took with us and all was sweetness and light!!

Sorry - can't help with the social charges as I don't really understand them myself, but there are plenty of very knowledgeable people on this site.

Good luck with your move

Miszter

[/quote]

 

As you have taken early retirement you may be asked, as we were, to sign an attestation that you have no intention of working in France

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CS

There is a lot of confusion about social charges and health care charges, they are not the same.  You could do a search it was discussed sometime back on a number of threads, but basically, after your E 106 expires you must get a letter from the UK to say that you are no longer entitled to cover under the E 106.  You go to CPAM with all the documents that you took the first time plus the letter and your tax bill and return.  By the time your E 106 expires say December 2008 you will have paid tax in France in 2008 for the year 2007.  Based on your joint income you will then pay into the French Health care system, you are obliged to join, it is not optional.

Social charges:  Have a look at  http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/881386/ShowPost.aspx

This is about rental income but the same principles apply.  Social charges come in different forms and are contributions to the French social services, not necessarily healthcare, they are levied in two ways, via your income tax (CRDS) but you should not pay CRDS whilst covered by an E 106 , I am not going to go into here how you do this on your tax form, there is lots about it in other threads. (Try a search on CRDS)

As you will see in the thread referenced above, if you receive any form of unearned income such as rents, interest on savings etc  this has to be declared on your tax form, you also have to declare all your bank accounts held so hard to avoid and why would you want to anyway[6]  This income is liable to social charges,  PS and CGS at 11% of total joint income, this is in addition to your income tax amd health care contributions and is billed separately.

Hope this helps, come back if you are unsure of anything else

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Ron for all the info.  As suggested I have gone through all the threads including the threads on tax calculations and have spent a couple of days head scratching!

Can you confirm something for me please, unearned income which in our case will be our savings only, one of the threads says the charge is 0.5% whereas your last para says 11% - maybe I've spent too long on this and am now totally in a mucking fuddle !

Thanks,  Chris  [:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cs, I understand your confusion!  I am still trying to get my head around this.  I'm pretty sure that you pay 0.5% of your total income and 11% on unearned income in social charges.  But it would be great if we could get a difinitive answer.  Some of the threads referred to certainly made my head spin after a while.[:-))]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"one of the threads says the charge is 0.5%,  whereas your last para says 11%"

This is the confusion that comes from the collection of social charges by two different routes.

Both figures are correct.  When you are not covered by an E form (106 121) from the UK for your health care, you have to pay CRDS through your income tax at a rate of 0.5% of your income, this should not be paid whilst covered by an E form as it is a contribution towards the French social services debt and should not be taken from people who have their health charges paid by another country.

Separately you pay social charges on the unearned income that you have declared on your tax return,
such as interest and rent, this is charged at a rate of 11% of the total unearned income. These payments are entirely separate to the CRDS charged and paid via your income tax and the contributions that you have to make for your health care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What Ron says must be correct, but not everyone pays the 0.5%. I live on my RAF pension, taxed in the UK, and don't pay this 0.5% despite everything being declared here. I am not sure if it is because I was on a E106 last year, or because my pension is taxed in the UK, or maybe because I don't earn enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Social contributions are calculated from your tax declaration and you receive a single billing which is separate from your income tax bill.

The bill will be split as follows:

Earned income/pensions:  CRDS - 0,5% (you are exempt if you are a holder of an E106 like BobT, or an E121)

Unearned income (eg, interest):  CSG - 8,2%   CRDS - 0,5%    PS - 2,3%    Total: 11,0%

A portion of your current social charges are eligible for tax relief in the following tax year - details are shown on your social contributions bill.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is no wonder that there is all this confusion!  In an article in April's LF its says "Pension income is also liable to 7.1% social charges, although UK pensions are exempt provided you hold either Form E106 or 121."  The percentage quoted in this article (by a financial guru) looks quite different.[:-))]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Panda "]

A portion of your current social charges are eligible for tax relief in the following tax year - details are shown on your social contributions bill.

[/quote]

It would help to know where this sentence came from, its in English so its not off the tax form or notes is it?  Is this for a business, micro or personal tax return?

If a portion of the contribution is eligible for tax relief and its the first time I have heard of this for a private tax payer,  it may well be included already when you get your pre printed tax return, mind you its a bit early for tax returns for individuals yet isn't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="cooperlola"]The quote was from SD's post, higher up the thread, I think, RA.[/quote]

Oops didn't read that bit I thought it was just adding a detailed breakdown to what I had already posted. I guess its over to SD for an explanatiion, but I still think it is included in the calculation and not something that has to be " claimed" as such, perhaps SD can elucidate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some answers to your questions....

Chris:

PS = prélèvement sociale

CSG = contribution sociale géneralisée

CRDS = contribution pour la rembouresment de la dette sociale

 

Cooperlola:

French pensions have social contributions deducted at source, so putting a UK pension in box AS/BS on the 2042 tax declaration does not generate a social charge .  Instead, they are itemised on form 2047 and (for non-E form holders) they are additionally transferred to form 2042 box TL which generates the CRDS social charge.  No CSG/PS payable.

 

Ron:

The tax relief is on CSG - which is charged on UK unearned income such as bank/saving interest. The calculation schedule on the social contributions bill has a postscript  "Montant de la CSG déductable pris en compte pour l'imposition des revenus percus en 2006 - X euros".

On the 2042 tax declaration: Box DE - CSG déductible calculée sur les revenus du patrimoine. (Notes: Une fraction de la contribution sociale généralisée (CSG) payée en 2006 sur les revenus du patrimoine est déductible de votre revenu global. Ce montant figure sur le ou les avis d'imposition (ou de dégrèvement) aux contributions sociales que vous avez reçus en 2006.

If you haven't declared any unearned income, then you won't have seen it.

Hope this clarifies things.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that SD. Yes I have seen it now on the 2004 and 2005 social charges bill, I followed it through from 2004 onto the 2005 tax return and 2005 advice and it was as I thought automatically included and deducted from the total tax for assessment.  So you do not have to "claim" it as such.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...