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Artois
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Our E106 has now expired and we find having relinquished our right to UK health care we are not entitled to join the French health care system either. We are unable to afford private health cover but short of returning to live in the UK what can we do? We have a gite business, are french tax resident but still pay voluntary UK N.I.contributions.

Ours sons are booked on a skiing trip and may now be unable to go as we have been unable to find private insurance. Trailfinders will not insure unaccompanied children.

 

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Have you had any luck with CPAM?

We received a letter at the end of Jan to say that we needed to update our Carte Vitales as our E106 had expired. We went in armed with the letter from the Minster of Health, but were told that  it says she will "ask the director of Social Security to send a circular", and such a circular has not yet been received. We are still waiting for them to confirm the arrival of the new instructions.

We are in a pickle, as my husband is due to have a cataract operation next week, and CPAM are still waiting for the new directive to appear on their desks. We probably can't get Private Health Insurance for an existing condition, and in any case the Insurance companies are now saying that they won't be able to cover us if we are entitled to remain in the CMU.

Feel like we are caught in limbo.

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The situation has yet to improve, in spite of the apparent agreement that all current residents may now join or remain in CMU.  The promised circular to CPAMs is still outstanding, so local offices are not implementing the spirit or the letter of the minister's recent changes to the rules.  We remain confident that things will improve, but this is no help to those who are caught in what Busybee correctly describes as "limbo".  We are awaiting a response from the Embassy, CLEISS, the minister and CNAM, none of whom have even graced us with a response to our pleas to sort this appalling situation out.

I would urge you to post on the Europe minister's blog

http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/blogs/jim_murphy/archive/2008/02/01/16034.aspx

as, despite what one may think, he really has been a key player (via the Ambassador and Embassy staff) in getting the changes agreed, and it is vital that we make it clear to him that things are really no better than they were back in November, here on the ground where it matters.

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Yes, I've added a comment to that blog, thanks for the link.

I note that a number of people there have stated that their Carte Vitales run out at the end of March. Does that mean than we can in fact continue to use them until then? It would be a great relief if we could get through the next fortnight!

Thanks for all your efforts on behalf of us all.

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The extension until the end of March only applies to those who are current CMU subscribers - they were given a stay of execution until that date, in the original statement in November (the one which CPAMs are still acting upon, in the main).  E106 expirees generally got no extension at all, although some CPAMs have allowed this while they sort themselves out.  It is certainly worth checking your Cartes Vitales in a machine (normally found in pharmacies) to see if they are still valid.
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[quote user="busybee"]
We are in a pickle, as my husband is due to have a cataract operation next week, and CPAM are still waiting for the new directive to appear on their desks.
[/quote]Busybee, I have just spoken to the Embassy.  I explained the immediate concerns for those undergoing, or about to undergo, treatment.  The advice is to contact CLEISS (the Helpdesk in France for international mobility and social security) on 00 33 1 45 26 33 41, website: www.cleiss.fr

for emergency cases, as they are best placed to help in an urgent situation.

The new statement is being produced for CPAMs but there is still no firm publication date, although the ministry is aware of the urgency.  We will continue to keep you posted.

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[quote user="cooperlola"] E106 expirees generally got no extension at all, although some CPAMs have allowed this while they sort themselves out.  It is certainly worth checking your Cartes Vitales in a machine (normally found in pharmacies) to see if they are still valid.[/quote]

If you use a CV and it works are you not liable to be in trouble if you knew your E106 had run out ?

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Whilst I continue to have the greatest sympathy for fellow Brits already living in France and suffering as a result of these changes, I wonder if anybody in authority has even thought about another group of folk caught in limbo over this...

In late 2003 I committed a large lump of my pension into buying a home in France to retire to. Since then, I have committed every piece of spare cash I could earn into renovating this property. Then, just as my wife and I are in the process of finishing it, we get hit by the health changes. Pre-existing conditions and not enough cash to pay the premiums prevent us from buying insurance.

We are now stuck with our lovely dream home and fast running out of the money to keep going back and forth to it. 

(I am in my late 50's, my wife in her mid 50's)

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One cannot but just sympathise.  For our part and due to family reasons in the UK as in aged mother, grandson in trouble and other related issues we are now planning to go home from our wonderful home in a lovely village in the Vendee.

Unfortunately such is life.

We too committed two large lumps of pension to buy our initial home in Normandie then moved for fear of the pylons (read the thread) on that) and now with a limited market place are we likely to get our money back?  Fortunately we kept our home in the UK and which is rented but we cannot get our hands on that for another twelve months.

Life is a bitch but I am glad I am alive there are lots in the churchyards who would love to have the opportunity!

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[quote user="Mel"]

Whilst I continue to have the greatest sympathy for fellow Brits already living in France and suffering as a result of these changes, I wonder if anybody in authority has even thought about another group of folk caught in limbo over this...

In late 2003 I committed a large lump of my pension into buying a home in France to retire to. Since then, I have committed every piece of spare cash I could earn into renovating this property. Then, just as my wife and I are in the process of finishing it, we get hit by the health changes. Pre-existing conditions and not enough cash to pay the premiums prevent us from buying insurance.

We are now stuck with our lovely dream home and fast running out of the money to keep going back and forth to it. 

(We are in our late 50's)

[/quote]

My sympathy's Mel , but if you are late 50,s you will not have long until your wife reaches 60 she can then get an e121 and you can join the French health system . (I know retirement age for women is changing but think in this case they should be ok)

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At FHI we still believe that there is a very strong case to challenge the way in which the law is being interpreted here, and there is quite a lot of sympathy for this view within the EU parliament - but sadly it's going to take a lot of time and willpower to get anything done.  At present, we are of course still engaged in the battle to get the latest changes implemented at ground level, but our attention will certainly turn to those planning a move, once things settle down for those already here - which we are confident that they will shortly.

But Tigerfeet is right, Mel, once your wife reaches UK state pensionable age then you will be OK to come on the basis of her E121.  Also, depending upon when you actually retired, you may have some residual E106 benefits.  I would need to know precise dates (birthdays, when you both gave up work etc) to do a proper guestimate, but I think you may very well find that you get UK government cover quite soon.  Also, depending upon what the pre-existing conditions are, one of you may of course be eligible for disability benefits and hence an E121 that way.  There are many ways to skin this particular cat, even trying to find a part-time job over here for a while.

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[quote user="cooperlola"]  The advice is to contact CLEISS (the Helpdesk in France for international mobility and social security) on 00 33 1 45 26 33 41, website: www.cleiss.fr

for emergency cases, as they are best placed to help in an urgent situation.[/quote]

I have contacted CLEISS and they were very re-assuring and helpful ( I spoke to a lady in their translation department initially, and was given a direct line to call, for the reglement de communitaire. When I had some difficulty understanding what I was being told, they referred me back to the translation department, who clarified). They did say that instructions should be forthcoming to CPAM next week, but that in the meantime, we should submit a dated application for CMU.

Thanks again for your help.

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I have a letter stating that my Carte Vital expires end of Jan08, but if i go to a machine in a chemist and insert my card this will extend it until end of March. After endless visits to chemists, i finally found one in Montauban which is half hour drive. With the help of a assistant it was given the thumbs up. That was until i went to my local chemist for my medication, my Carte Vital was showing as terminated. Back in no mans land.

Any advice greatly appreciated

 

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Pepisue, the new regulations have just been posted on the Social Security website so one can expect CPAM activity shortly!  Meanwhile, I think your only course of action is to visit your CPAM and get them to update your card, at least until March.  You can also take a copy of the latest statement with you

http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm

which hopefully will persuade them to extend it beyond March at the same time!

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[quote user="pepsisue"]

I have a letter stating that my Carte Vital expires end of Jan08, but if i go to a machine in a chemist and insert my card this will extend it until end of March. After endless visits to chemists, i finally found one in Montauban which is half hour drive. With the help of a assistant it was given the thumbs up. That was until i went to my local chemist for my medication, my Carte Vital was showing as terminated. Back in no mans land.

Any advice greatly appreciated

 

[/quote]

pay for your medication and keep the brown forms for a refund when this mess is sorted

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Dear Cooperlola, tigerfeet et al,

Thanks for your kind responses. I do admit to being a bit unkind to my wife in calling her late 50's - I am (59), but she is really mid 50's (54). When I wrote that, it was for quickness, I had not really thought about the significance. She would flatten me if she knew what I had said...

Cooperlola, I will email you with our exact ages and dobs etc. Thanks! 

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Update on our situation:

We went into CPAM (in Cahors, Lot) today, to give them our application for CMU base (as advised by CLEISS). We were told that there is no such thing as CMU base anymore. Not for anyone. Obviously the staff there are aware that there is information at large to the contrary, but they still are waiting for a new directive to tell them so.

They did accept our application, but were unable to give us any warm and fuzzy feeling about when we might expect an end to our current situation, in which we are competely without medical cover.

My husband has been obliged to cancel the operation which was planned for this week, as we could get no guarantee that the costs would be reimbursed.

The only suggestions that CPAM staff could offer was to register ourselves as some kind of business or entreprise individuelle; which my husband is reluctant to commit to until after the successful conclusion of surgery. In any case, why should we do that when apparently we are entitled to join the CMU?

We live in hope that the directive will arrive and that this will be resolved in the not too distant future. It would have been helpful if the UK could find a way to extend coverage through the E106 whilst this matter remains  unresolved. As it is, we remain in limbo and presumably, illegally resident.

I noticed that the wording of the new statement implies that there is a choice for inactifs who meet the two conditions of residency and having an E106 on Nov 23rd. They may join if they wish. Does this mean that in fact we will be allowed to have PHI, or is there some other option that I am not aware of?

I shall be glad to read the first positive posting from anyone who successfully gets into, or back into the CMU!

[8-)]

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[quote user="busybee"]I noticed that the wording of the new statement implies that there is a choice for inactifs who meet the two conditions of residency and having an E106 on Nov 23rd. They may join if they wish. Does this mean that in fact we will be allowed to have PHI, or is there some other option that I am not aware of?[/quote]

The way the French text is worded indicates that that joining the CMU will indeed be optional at the expiry of their E106 cover (and presumably for those who have been thrown out of it).

However, the requirement for private health cover does ask for it to be comprehensive.

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[quote user="busybee"]

I shall be glad to read the first positive posting from anyone who successfully gets into, or back into the CMU!
[8-)]

[/quote]

If you want to read some positive news get a copy of the feb issue of connexion they have details of a man who`s E106 expired in jan , made an appeal and got into CMU.

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The new instructions were apparently sent out to CPAMs on Friday.  They will not be published publicly. So if anybody has a mate who works at a CPAM....

I am sure that you will be OK, Busybee.  CMU (de base and complementaire) do of course still exist - for the French, and for anybody else who qualifies (including future arrivals, once they have lived here for 5 years.) Sorry about your o/h's op',  but we're confident that things will be cleared up and he will be able to re-book it soon.  Meanwhile, it's still important that we get feedback, so please - everybody - keep us informed of the reactions you are getting. 

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My friends went to CPAM in Saintes today (their Carte Vitales had already been taken from them) armed with an application form to join CMU. letter in French from the French Health Minister and all the other paperwork. She is a Type 2 diabetic and can't get PHI but they were told that they can't join CMU until April and they were illegal here!! Their E106's expired in December. They asked for a letter of refusal but this was declined as they confirmed that they could join in April!!(but no written confirmation!!) Am wondering if it is worth a trip to CPAM in La Rochelle, the main one for the Charente Maritime.......Can they refuse her in the circumstances??

aj

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No, of course they cannot refuse her.  April indeed!  This gets more daft by the minute.  They should contact CLEISS

CLEISS - (France's helpdesk for international mobility and social security):
11 rue de la tour des Dames
75436 Paris cedex 09
Tel: +33 1 45 26 33 41

http://www.cleiss.fr/

in the first instance - they have been the most helpful, and it's important that they know the rules are still being misinterpreted.

I have been onto the Embassy and we are still on this.  Please keep these examples coming.  Thanks all.

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If the instructions did not go out until last Friday then possibly they had not arrived at CPAM,s  on the Monday,and even if they had perhaps the staff have not been fully briefed yet.

Perhaps another attempt towards the end of the week would bring a better result.

It does take time for important changes to filter down in any country. 

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