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Dentists (again!!!)


doris day
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At the risk of being boring, I'm posting yet again on the subject of dentists.

A couple of months ago I was told by my French dentist that I would need to have all of my upper teeth out and most of my lower ones due to bone loss caused by gum disease.  My front teeth are particularly bad and wonky.  Some of my other upper teeth are fine but he said all of my teeth would have to come out due to my having a significant overbite which would make it difficult to fit partial dentures. (this was confirmed by a specialist he sent me to)

Obviously a little upset I decided to visit a dentist in the UK to get a second opinion as I was already going there to visit friends.  He said he agreed I have problems but saw not reason why I should have to lose all my upper teeth just to replace my front ones.  He suggest I could keep most of them but would need dentures to replace the front ones in the near future.

Prefering this option - I then decided to visit yet another dentist in France in the hope that you would confirm the English dentist's opinion.  However, he threw things completely in the air.  He said with care I could keep all my teeth - at least for a few more years.  He put me on anti-biotics (I have to say my teeth are a lot firmer since I finished them), took a mould of my teeth then, after studying them, said I needed crowns on all my lower molars (at a significant cost to myself, my mutual and the social security system), which would correct my overbite problem,  then some sort of brace which would push my front teeth a little more in place. 

I am of course going to take this option as it offer the best outcome at least in the short term.  But I ask you why such a divergence of opinion??  Again I am interested in the experiences of the others.  Thanks for reading this - if you are still awake at this stage. 

Doris

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 The answer is in the question, because its opinion - plus the dentist who has suggested the course of action you prefer has chosen a more complex, time consuming and expensive solution which the other dentists may have thought wasn't practical........

I hope you like this dentist, sounds like you'll be seeing a lot of him [:)][:)]

Glad you have found a solution....

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  • 3 weeks later...

[quote user="hakunamatata"]You dont get much back from CPAM or Mutuelle for dental treatment. [/quote]

It depends upon the type of treatment you need ,whether or not your dentist is conventionnée, and the extent of cover though your mutuelle. 

A couple of years ago, Mrs Sunday had a pre-hospitalisation infection check and a filling, and this year, I had a three-visit root canal job including x-rays and a course of antibiotics. Apart from the usual 1€ forfaits, all of our treatment was paid for in full by CPAM and our basic 100% mutuelle......

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi Doris

From what you've said it sounds like you might be suffering from fairly advanced periodontal disease. What teeth are affected and how much they are affected can't be accurately determined without various investigations so the advice I'll give will be with that in mind. Firstly, proceed with caution. It may be technically possible to put fancy restorations on wobbly teeth but will this only improve their aesthetics rather than their longevity. which is probably what you want. Sometimes this is done in specific circumstances to splint the teeth together but this is rare. There are other cheaper, less invasive ways of doing that should it be necessary.

 I have no way of knowing if the problem you have is long term fixable but things can certainly be improved even if the end result is the same. Not sure if crowns are the answer though. Ask lots of questions and caveat emptor.

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Hi

Thanks for you advice to all new posters on the subject of my teeth.  In response, I recently changed mutuels and uped the dental treatment part of my new plan.  This still means I would get next to nothing back for dentures, bridges etc.. but I have to pay very little toward crowns (well metal ones anyway).  So.... my most recent quote involves me paying out about the same amount for keeping my teeth (albeit for a possible shortish period)  as for losing them.

Sorry the poster that mentioned his/her blog - I can't see your name at the same time as writing this - but I would certainly be interested in reading it if I knew how to find it.

Sam,  (are you a dentist) the main reason I have gone so far down this road is for finacial reasons, and because of a certain amount of mistrust as to the need for such a hugh expenditure.

My original quote was so high for having most of my teeth removed and having dentures fitted (which I fully excepted and was prepared to do) I went to see a UK dentist who told me I didn't need to have such radical treatment etc.... (see original post)

I accept I have "fairly advanced periodontal disease" but most of my teeth aren't wobbly and since I've been seeing my current dentist my gums haven't bled at all, ever.  Which is the first time in a long, long time - years.

His reasons for the crowns are to raise my bite so that my lower teeth don't hit my front upper ones and make them loose.  I have no real way of knowing if this is a truely sensible approach or one that will work - since each of the three dentists I have seen recently offers  a different treatment.

However, if it means keeping most of teeth rather than losing most them (even if it'll just be for a few years) I have to try it. 

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OK Doris, understood. Talking generally again (which will likely interest more people and keep me away from the trap of suggesting something when I have no access to the data) periodontal disease is loss of the bone supporting the teeth. Everyone over 40 has this to some degree and as it is a painless condition until its late stages, can be ignored (by all parties) for decades. Its effect is to gradually loosen teeth to the point where they either fall out or have to be taken out. It's a chronic inflamatory condition and controlling this inflammation can significantly slow its progression. Its causes are damage from plaque and tarter over many years but many (including me) think there are other causes such as smoking and heriditary factors.

When teeth become loose, deep cleaning, antibiotics (tablets and/or pasts put around the roots of the teeth) can control acute infection and teeth can feel like they are becoming more solid. They are to a degree, but the bone loss is generally permanent. It is rare for one or two teeth to be affected and although back teeth can feel more solid , it is likely they are as affected as loose front ones.

So what might you do Doris to decide if this is for you? (I realise you might have decided already..) I give this general advice only as, again, I have no access to your data. I assume you have had detailed X ray taken and as well as the small ones you hold in your mouth during taking, panoral ones, taken by a machine that revolves around your head during taking, can be very useful to see a general picture. If you had one of these, ask your dentist to show you the bone levels in your mouth and ask him/her to show you one for comparison with someone who has little or no disease. It's common sense to see how bad it is. If only the front teeth are indeed badly affected, then the treatment you describe might well be just what you need. In addition, when the front teeth are eventually lost, the back teeth can be used to hold partial dentures in place. There are many high tech devices to make such prostheses significantly better and easier to live with than full dentures (where you have no natural teeth).

Bonne chance and it sounds like you are asking the right sort of questions and getting other opinions. There are many ways of treating this type of problem and getting different answers from different dentist does not mean some are right and others wrong. There are hundreds of shades of grey. Whatever, be wary of any dentist who avoids direct questions or doesn't want to take the time to explain things.

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Just before moving to France in 2006 we visited the Dentist in England and my husband voiced his worries that his teeth felt loose.  The dentist explained that it was due to giving up smoking.  End of conversation.  When we arrived in France we registered with the dentist here and had a check up.  The Dentist asked if we had any worries and my hubby explained that he was concerned about his teeth feeling loose.  The dentist had a good look and explained that it was a very serious problem called periodontal disease and that my husband would need to see a specialist.  He had four sessions of treatment and thankfully only required one tooth extraction.  The treatment is very painful but the improvement has been amazing.  He now has to go to the specialist once a year for three sessions.  It is expensive, about 1000 euros for the initial treatments and now 400 euros for the controle.  We do not receive very much back from the mutuelle or CPAM.  Good luck with your treatment.

Suey

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Hi

Sorry I've only just noticed that people were still posting on this! 

I'd be interested to know what the treatment is that your husband is receiving Suey.  Does it involve cleaning under the gums by any chance?

Thanks for your good luck messages.

Doris

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Hi again Sam

I suppose I have decided already, or at least I'm giving it a go.  I do feel my infection is completely under control, at least for the moment, and my teeth feel much more stable.  I have also had a complete panoral x-ray very recently.  I have to admit that with my untrained eye I find it very difficult to see what's going on - despite my dentist pointing to the affected areas!!  All I can say is thanks so much for your advice and I will keep you posted - if only to help others with similar problems.

Thanks again

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Yes each tooth is cleaned round and down into the gum and when that is done an antiseptic is sprayed (which apparently tastes horrible). He has a regime for seven days each month which includes mouth washes. He has to use special salt based toothpaste all the time. But if its working he will do anything.

Suey
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My husband is having treatment. He has bone loss through gum disease and one tooth that over the years has gradually slipped down and down so that it was completely mis aligned and sticking down and out. It looked like it was about to fall out. He consulted a dentist in the UK and was told that one of the  options was a procedure which involved wearing a brace which would also realign other teeth that had moved over the years. He didn't take up the treatment at that time. Fast forward two years. Now living in the Netherlands he went again to a dentist where the same treatment was proposed. They have told him that the bone regenerates as the tooth moves back. He is now undergoing the treatment. He wears an invisible brace for 22 hours each day. Every two weeks he changes to a new brace as the teeth move. I can only describe the change as remarkable. So far he has been going 6 weeks with the treatment and already the teeth are changing. It's called invisalign and will cost 3000 euros. Money well spent.

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Amazing lucky people who still manage to keep their teeth. I had an xray which showed bone loss, I had a very loose tooth at the front and the butcher here took out that one and two others, now I have a horrid uncomfortable plate which holds more food than my stomach. I keep it out most of the day when nobody is around because it is so uncomfortable and the top plate he gave me I have never worn because it makes me sick every time I try to put it in. Its a long story, which as I have said is on my blog but is not for the faint hearted. Good luck to everybody who has been saved even if the treatment is uncomfortable.
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 Hakunamatata, could you go back and have your plate adjusted ? It's really common and could make a world a difference and sometimes you may have to go back several times, though if you have left for a while it may be better to start again, your gums will have shrunk back and the original plate might not fit so well. In any case there is special paper which helps locate the high or ill fitting spots and the dentist works from there.

The dentist I worked for used to recommend sucking on a boiled sweet or two to make the plate bed down and get rid of that feeling of nausea.....

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 I'm in the Uk so I can't speak for France but here at least you are perfectly free to go to another dentist, the difference being that the dentist who made the dentures should adjust them free where as another will charge, but it's worth it.

My mother lives on a very limited  diet  because her teeth aren't right - as you get older it affects nutrition, please think about getting it sorted...

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Funny R/H as I was about to post something very similar.  My father was having terrible trouble with his dentures when he made his final visit to hospital from which he never returned.  He could not speak clearly as his mouth had got in such a bad state (he had had most of his teeth removed by a butcher dentist when very young and had had dental plates through most of his adult life as a consequence), and could eat very little.  I am convinced that this contributed substantially to his early (72) demise.  The docs expected to cure him quite quickly of a bout of pneumonia but never did.

My mother is now having a similar problem and has spent a few thousand pounds whilst trawling from dentist to dentist and technician to technician in pursuit of a good set of gnashers.  Yes, she's got through a few  quid but as I've said to her - the ability to eat properly and comfortably seems a good thing to spend time and effort on to me.  She suffers from the nausea problem - I'll recommend your dentist's trick, R/H.[:)]

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Dont worry folks, when its food time and I am at home out come the gnashers!! Not a nice sight but only OH can see and he understands my problem. Fortunately at the moment I have enough left to chew with! My experience cost me 3000 euros! When I go on holiday this year I will have to have them in all day so I am practising now but it is difficult to do a whole day. I will have a go with the other lot sometime when I am under the "affluence of incohol"

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi everyone

I am particularly interest in the brace idea - Liz is it?  This is what my dentist says I will need to have at the end of my treatment.  It's very good to hear that it's working for someone.  My dentist has advised me to first clean my teeth thoroughly, than use a mouth wash and then clean between each tooth (or what's left of them in my case!) with one of those tiny wire brushes dipped in peroxide (eau oxygénée) which I do not rince.  I know the last bit sounds a bit strange but I can honestly say my teeth feel firmer and they have not bled once - after several years of doing so. 

It is early days but I feel confident that I have made the right decison to keep my teeth - even if it's for the short term.  Especially after reading the horror stories written on here!!

good luck everyone and I'll keep you informed of my progress

Doris

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