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Full Health Insurance


Mac
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Due to circumstances beyond ou control(redundancy and vendors dragging their heels) we now find ourselves in the position that we will have approx.1 years cover from our NI payments and will then need to find full health cover(not top up) for about 4 years after that. We always knew that we would have to fund our health care for a few years as we are not working but it will come about quicker than we thought. We have money put aside for this but wonder if anyone is using a supplier for a health care policy that they can recommend. We neither of us have any ongoing or chronic medical conditions or family history of heart or other medical problems. Any recommendations put there?
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I can understand why you're asking, but this kind of thread always end up with a 'This Mutuelle is better than that Mutuelle' debate.

You just have to get quotes from as many as you've got the patience to talk to and then make sure that you're comparing like with like.

Just about everybody I've talked to over here (mostly French BTW) has been with one or other of the 'majors' and has changed at some point in time.  We're with 'A' and about to change to 'B'. Talked to somebody a couple of weeks ago, who said that she was in the process of changing from 'B' to 'C'. You get the drift?

For the expenditure that you're looking at, I'd get plenty of quotes - they'll want the business. Just make sure that they'll take any liability without you having to pay upfront & reclaim.

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You have very little choice, afaik.  When we re-jigged the website I put in all the companies I could find who would contemplate full cover in France.  I think it's still about as comprehensive as it gets but may be a bit out of date in terms of some of the links.  It's in the Insurance Section (see my www below) - voluntary and not linked to any organisation or company.  Sorry, but there are still very few people on full cover so I've had no feedback on who's good and who isn't.

If you have top-up for the first year, then it's well worth asking the company you use, especially if you have been satisfied with them, to give you a quote as they know your history and may well come up with a good quote for full cover even if it's not generally offered by them.

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[quote user="Bernice"]Guardian - I think the OP was asking for information about full health cover, not top-up. 

[/quote]

Yes, I appreciated that. My suggestions still hold good though, even though my own experience is only of top-up.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Mac - If it helps I am in a similar position. I called BUPA today and they were very helpful. Also based in the UK if your french like mine isn't as good as it should be.

They offered a core plan and then different options you can tag on, along with different deductables if you want to keep the monthly cost down.

I think I will use them. If anyone has any good/bad experiences, please let me know.

 

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Hi, do you mind me asking what sort of premiums they were quoting and for what ages?  Its likely we will need 3 or more years of full health insurance at the back end of our (hopefully) 5 years of residency before we can get access to the French health system, so any current info would be useful.  Thanks

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Thanks, that doesn't sound too bad.  My OH is early 40's and I am early 50's and we both have clean past medical histories (at present).  I had a ball park figure of £5k per annum in my head for us and our 9 year old, so it might turn out to be a little less. 

Not sure if you intend to use the 5 year residency rule to access the system later on in France, but if you haven't done so already it might be worth checking that just taking the core plan would satisfy the French government that you have adequate health insurance cover to make the residency 'legal'.  Can't see why not, but it would be an important point for us to clarify when the time comes.  Thanks again.

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[quote user="Daft Doctor"]Not sure if you intend to use the 5 year residency rule to access the system later on in France, but if you haven't done so already it might be worth checking that just taking the core plan would satisfy the French government that you have adequate health insurance cover to make the residency 'legal'.  [/quote]

Do be careful. As one of my friends found herself in the same situation she took basic cover, but was told it was not adequate ... not sure by whom she was told that, but the result was she had to demonstrate she had complete cover for everything. She is in her late fifties and single, her premium is about 2400€ pa - sorry cannot remember exactly as it was last year.

Sue

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On the basis that private insurance is to ensure that you cannot be a burden to the French health system it's hard to see how baisc cover could be considered adequate for purpose.

A further point which I personally had not really appreciated until very recently is that persons living here with private insurance are not entitled to an EHIC so adequate private health insurance is required if travelling outside of France. It may be that their French policy covers them but dangerous to assume it.

TBH if I were in the position I think I'd be seriously looking into setting up some sort of AE enterprise which would (under present rules at least) provide both health cover and a French EHIC (CEAM).

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We contacted our private health care supplier, AXA PPP here in the UK to cancel our policy as our move is imminent, they also will cover us living in France if we wanted.  Our premiums are about £1k pa here.  I have a dodgy knee and wanted it checking out before I made the move, they are not the easiest to get treatment with.  I had an op on it years ago under my wife's health care provider that came with her job, it was so simple, no fuss at all but I can't ermemeber who it was.

In short, there are lots of UK companies that will cover expats abroad so worth checking about.  Weather this would qualify for the 5 year rule though I don't know.

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Just to put a bit more "meat" on the bones of Sue and AnO's posts.

The regulation which states that after 5 years, EU citizens gain the same health and social security rights as a French national are outlined here:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F12017.xhtml?&n=Etrangers%20en%20France&l=N8&n=Citoyens%20communautaires%20en%20France&l=N112

The pertinent bit for the pre-retired is this (yes, I know this mentions the cartes de sejour but the rules are the important bit):

Inactif

L'"inactif" (retraité ou autre personne sans activités), qui a établi sa résidence habituelle en France depuis moins de 5 ans, peut demander une carte de séjour "CE - non actif".

La durée de validité de la carte dépend de la pérennité des ressources présentées. Dans tous les cas, elle ne peut pas dépasser 5 ans.

Les justificatifs suivants doivent être fournis :

  • un titre d'identité ou un passeport en cours de validité,

  • une attestation d'assurance maladie-maternité offrant un certain nombre de prestations,

  • les documents justifiant de ressources suffisantes pour le demandeur et, si nécessaire, pour les membres de sa famille.

(My bold italics.)

There's an explanation of the requirements and the potential problems if your insurance doesn't comply on our website here:

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/insurance/phi_main.htm

and the requirements themselves are in English here:

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/insurance/insurance_requirements.htm

Now, nobody yet knows (but some will be finding out after November 2012 - five years on from the exclusion of inactif newcomers from CMU) what will happen after the five years are up and whether the details of the policies people have bought from the private sector will be scrutinised before the five years' stable residence status is granted.  This is a potential snag therefore if you do not buy full cover (and to be honest, I'm not even sure that any company actually provides it to that exacting spec'?) and who are hoping to join CMU after those five years.  Obviously, if by that time one were approaching UK state retirement age it would not be an issue, but it could be, and may very well vary from deparment to department and from CPAM to CPAM - we just don't know yet.  But anybody contemplating a less-than-compliant policy should certainly be aware of the risks.

One more thing, the UK goverment pays, iirc, around 2.5k a year for every S form holder and this is a statutory amount agreed within Europe.  Thus if they reckon that's what your healthcare costs, it's probably a pretty reasonable reflection of what a private company might base theirs on.  And they want to make a profit out of you too.

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What I really cannot understand about all this is why, when the French government has set out its requirements for private health insurance for early retiring 'inactifs' quite clearly as per the links in Coops post, does no insurance company simply look at that and create a policy (at whatever cost to the client) which fits those requirements.  I realise that the requirements may be exacting and that may be why companies are reluctant to make any guarantees in that respect, but they would probably clear up the market if they simply said 'our opinion is that this policy meets the requirements of Article L321-1 of the French Legal Code regarding private health insurance requirements for residents in France who do not qualify for entry into the French health system'. 

Are there no forum members with big-wig insurance connections who can point this out? 

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Anyway, it looks as though my initial estimate of £5k per year will not be far off, probably more like £6k+ once our 9 year old is added in.  As an aside though, surely it puts you in a stronger position if you can show that you have bought the most comprehensive policy available on the market, albeit it is no guarantee it would satisfy the authorities?
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Idun, I think it is Euros (it's an EU standard)  but honestly, I just recall that from previous discussions here and elsewhere and so I'd have to do a bit of work to find the exact references and amount.

DD - I only know one insurer well (I mean in that I know their head honcho to speak to) and I know that they have produced a policy as close as they can to the requirements but he admitted to me (and for this reason I cannot reveal who this is) that no underwriter would contemplate the kind of cover which the state can sustain.   It's especially difficult as the market is so very small - there are not many French residents who need full PHI, after all and  thus there are very few - if any - totally French companies who do any full insurance that I know of.  For insurance to work, the companies need a good base of people amongst whom to spread thier liabilities, as I understand it (not being an expert in the field).

I think it will be really interesting to see what happens when these chickens come home to roost.  Apart from anything else - who's going to be responsible for checking up and how will they decide if individuals have complied or not?

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I see what you are saying about the core plan but it does cover you anywhere (except US) for in patient treatment. It just doesn't cover GP visits, chriropractors that type of thing. Just seems cheaper to pay this as and when needed.

If anyone can tell me how to attach a document i"ll post it.

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You cannot directly attach a document or photo etc., only upload it somewhere and link to it.

Hypothetical but I wonder if you could demonstrate that, throughout your qualifying 5 years you had maintained a bank balance of lets say say €1m, you could argue that that was as good as any insurance and was more than adequate to ensure that you could have paid your own way without being a burden had it been necessary ?

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The problem is, AnO, that the policy and its perameters are specified, are they not? The regs ask for sufficient resourses, plus insurance complying to all the rules.  But I agree - it should be as you state if logic were applied.....[Www]

EDIT - what's more this is the way it was before CMU was ever an option for non-French EU citizens, was it not?  You were allowed to take the risk if you wished to do so - nobody forced you to have any sort of health insurance if you didn't want it.

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Just for info I got a quote with the doctors visits etc added and the policy went up by 89% even with a 1K deductable. Unlikely to have doctors visits over that amount per year so I thought that was quite an increase.

I've been paying private health cover for 11 years and I feel it's pretty high for what you get.

There's still more you can add on, but I guess you have to draw the line somewhere.

 

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