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DLA some movement


Llwyncelyn
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Benjamin

Thanks, I didn't know that DLA was available to women until 65. [:$][:)]

It always struck me as odd that AA does not contain the element for mobility, which is worth between £17.75-£46.75 pw, and I suspect that this is the reason that they can claim DLA up to 65, as men can. [8-)]

Regarding your question on making a claim once already resident abroad. AFAIK, it has always been a requirement that you had to be resident in the UK in order to be eligible to make a claim for benefits. However, the statement definitely implies that this is being reconsidered, certainly in relation to these particular benefits, and again I think this is just one of the questions still to be clarified.

It seems that it is again a case of 'watch this space.........' [blink]

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Ok, she telephoned them today, they just told her no decision had been made for people who had already moved to France.  They did not say to write a letter, but I will tell her she must.  The last payment she recieved from them was Oct last year, Im sorry I dont know what date but I will find out.

Is there anything else she should be doing?

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Having just got back from France, firstly I would like to thank ebaynut for being 'on the case' regarding his efforts in trying to ascertain from Blackpool, exactly what the ruling means, and passing on his findings of who to contact, if making any sort of claim.

I have read through the entire statement on the DWP site in relation to the DLA/CA judgement, and must say I am a little bit confused. If I have read the statment correctly, are the UK government trying to link the exportability of DLA care component, to being in receipt of long-term incapacity benefit? As I must admit that is how I read it, if this is the case then if IB were to be taken away, then the DLA payment and thus an E121 would go with. Thus taking us back to square one.

I will be telephoning Blackpool myself tomorrow, and writing a letter as advised by ebaynut.

Still not having total clarity regarding the ruling, is putting us in an awkward position, as we have found a property we think we would like to make an offer on, but with all the indecision going on, makes our decsion all the more difficult.

 

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The DLA office phoned us today, in response to the letter we sent after the announcement was finally made.

He was just confirming what we already knew, in that the 'mobility' element was not included in the claim for exportation. He again confirmed their belief that the 'care element' would qualify the claimant to an E121.

He explained to us that the details of how the new ruling is to be applied are still very vague, and they are still receiving new information, and that as such were unable to offer any further confirmed clarification.

He also informed us that they had received over 2000 enquiries since the announcment, [:-))] and were having to examine each case individually, which is likely to cause some delays, especially in view of the fact that they don't as yet have all the information required themselves. He also said that due to the large response, they have had to divide up the cases into two groups:

1) Those planning on making the move to within the EU.

2) Those who have already relocated, and are reclaiming lost benefits.

They will be dealing with the 'planning to move' group first, so unfortunately a further delay for everyone making an appeal for re-instatement of benefits, as these are likely to be more complex. [blink]

The water is still very muddy! [:(] [:@]

Puzzled,

You are quite right....all very shady [:(], and funnily enough doesn't surprise us in the slightest. Is that just us being overly suspicious, or experienced? [blink]

Grecian,

Having gone through the statement again, and reviewing the web site in it's entirity, we tend to agree that it is very ambiguous, and that the current wording has that 'not quite right' feel about it. [8-)]

When we questioned the DLA officer, he implied that they themselves believed that it was not going to be connected to a duo-claim for IB.........however, our gut instinct is, if they can defer their responsibility in any way, they will certainly try that route.

Again, are we being too cautious or realistic?

PS: Have sent you an email

Cooperlola,

Thanks for the update, have edited previous post with new address details.

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Hi ebaynut, having looked at the site again, I am at a bit of a loss as to what has changed, can you enlighten me please, I have obviously missed it. We have so much going on at the moment, regarding decisions to be made, I am not keeping up with events.

On a personal note regarding the DLA situation, we have still not heard anything back, responding to the letters we have written to Blackpool, I do wish they would hurry up and make their minds up one way or another, so at least we can then plan accordingly.

 

 

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Grecian,

We know exactly what you mean - it all starts to blur together when you have read it more than 10 times! [blink]

The bit that 'we had noticed' had changed was the wording in the following text:

Taking your disability benefit with you when moving to live in another EEA state or Switzerland

  • you have paid enough national insurance contributions to be able to claim a contributions based sickness benefit, like short term Incapacity Benefit. Generally, you need to have worked in at least one of the last three tax years and to have paid a certain amount of national insurance contributions in that year to meet this. The Department for Work and Pensions will be able to check your national insurance records and tell you whether you have paid enough.  

  • you are a family member of someone who has paid enough national insurance contributions for them to be able to claim a contributions based sickness benefit. A family member is a spouse, civil partner or someone who is dependent on a parent
  • The section which clarifies that NI contributions are considered, and 'you are a family member.....' has also been added.

    We noticed this in particular, because that indicates that my wife is covered, regardless of not having paid NI contributions herself.

    A small change I know, but definitely an important ammendment as far as we are concerned as she is not eligible for either short/long IB. It was so ambiguous before, and as you had pointed out, could also be interpreted as being linked to being in receipt of IB.

    For those wishing to make the move, this is so crucial to obtaining the required healthcover via an E121.

    Likewise, we have heard nothing further from DWP, and wonder if anyone else has had any response from them?[8-)]

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    The section which suggests that the UK Government is still considering whether to allow claims from those already living abroad but who never claimed before they left remains intact.

    On Mrs Benjamin's behalf I requested and received a DLA claim pack which has been returned to Blackpool earlier this week.  In view of the fact that this issue may take a long time to resolve I have asked them to acknowledge receipt of the claim. We shall see.

    We've pretty much decided that if the claim is allowed, we, if given the chance, will return to the UK for any assessment which may be required. I don't fancy putting my language skills to the test with an unknown French medical practioner.

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    Having read through the whole statement on the DWP site again, and with what you have posted ebaynut, I have got to admit I am still not 100% certain as to what they mean.

    Taking the bit about having paid enough NI contributions within the last 3 years, would tie in with something one of the many operators I have spoken to at Blackpool said to me. He claimed the government were concerned that anybody from within the EU, could come to Britain, claim the benefit, and then return to their native EU country with the benefit. Not quite sure why they are starting to worry now though, it doesn't seem to have worried the UK government before. So I guess they are trying to implement a fixed period of NI contributions having being paid, before the benefit is exportable.

    This still begs the question that anybody on long-term IB, who had obviously paid enough NI contributions before they became unfit for work, thus enabling them to be able to claim the benefit in the first place, will now be in the position, unless they have paid any NI contributions within the last 3 years, will not qualify for the exportability of DLA. So I am now thinking that my first interpretion of  the statement could be correct, that anybody on long-term IB will be able to take the care element of DLA with them. This then throws up the question, what would happen if IB were to be taken away in the future, will this mean that DLA goes along with it, to anybody living within the EU, and not Britain? This seems unfair as DLA is claimable, even if the recipient is working.

    Also with the CA exportability scenario, I have not paid any NI contributions within the last 3 years, even though I have been working part-time within this time frame. So again does this mean  that if IB were to be stopped, and DLA went with the IB payment, then CA would also be stopped as well. (Exploding head smiley required here please).

     

     

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    [quote user="Grecian"]

    This still begs the question that anybody on long-term IB, who had obviously paid enough NI contributions before they became unfit for work, thus enabling them to be able to claim the benefit in the first place, will now be in the position, unless they have paid any NI contributions within the last 3 years, will not qualify for the exportability of DLA.

     

    [/quote]

    I always thought that if you were on long term IB then your NI contributions were credited as if you were still working. If this is an important issue to you rather than a what if? then I would check that out with the benefits Agency.

    Having just had a quick look on the Directgov site it appears that you can get NI contributions if you're on certain benfits but I've been unable to find a listing of these.

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    Just adding to my posting above.

    Mrs Benjamin had only 30 years contributions when she was awarded long term IB in 1991 but she still receives a full state pension so I would guess what I thought about contributions being credited appears to be true.

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    You are quite right Benjamin, NI contributions are credited if on IB/CA, but I am not sure if credited contributions will be looked upon the same as work based paid NI contributions. The only thing that I base this assumption on is, I started a thread some while back entitled E121/E106 maybe a strange question. On this thread I asked the question if IB were to be stopped, would we be entitled to an E106 for upto two years, if living in France. After telephoning Newcastle, the answer to this question is no. To receive an E106 you have to have employment based NI contributions, paid up before you leave the UK. I also asked if we could pay a lump sum for NI contributions, if the need arose, again the answer was no.

    So if the government is basing the exportability of DLA on work based NI contributions, then I guess we would draw a blank again, if IB were to be stopped. Saying that though my wife was not in receipt of DLA until some 4 or 5 years after she was receiving IB, so in this instance I guess DLA was obtainable through credited NI contributions, as opposed to work based NI contributions. (Another exploding head smiley please)!

     

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    [quote user="Grecian"]

    So if the government is basing the exportability of DLA on work based NI contributions, then I guess we would draw a blank again, if IB were to be stopped. Saying that though my wife was not in receipt of DLA until some 4 or 5 years after she was receiving IB, so in this instance I guess DLA was obtainable through credited NI contributions, as opposed to work based NI contributions. (Another exploding head smiley please)!

    [/quote]

    Indeed Grecian. My wife has not paid many NI contributions (housewife/mother), which is why she is not eligible for NI based IB, either short or long term.

    AFAIK, her eligibility to DLA, (at the highest rate for both components), is based on her Brit residency. I certainly don't recall any mention of my own NI contributions having an impact on her eligibility. She underwent a rigorous examination, and a comprehensive report from a consultant.

    I also agree with the possible implication that the residency issue is what the government are looking at, as you only have to reside in the UK to qualify for residency (which is the only requirement for nhs cover), with (AFAIK) 6 months residency giving entitlement to social benefits.

    I found these links that explain 'NI Credits''NI contributions and benefits' .

    The water is not just muddy............it's swamplike!!! [:-))][:-))][:-))]

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    • 1 month later...

    Just to bump this up again as it's still not resolved at all by the look of things.

    I phoned the DLA Exportability Office this morning.  They requested my old archived file on 2 May and it still hasn't arrived so the team leader is chasing it today, she says that's nothing new with a month's delay.

    There is still NO, repeat NO decision from the DLA's legal department.  I asked why they were getting my old file sent in and she said it's because they're looking at my new claim and that it's likely that the 'straight forward' cases can be dealt with quickly, when pressed, before the legal department get off their bums.

    I think, from what she said and inferred, that they are making decisions on cases that are continuations of previous claims and are readily able to dispose of, whilst those that may have legal implications (overseas, as in non-UK euro claimants etc) are being held back.

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    And now it's time for the squirrels amongst us to come into their own............

    Had a call back from the DLA person.  She's looked at my screen file and there is a problem that may effect us all who received the benefit OVER 14 months ago.

    After 14 months on an inactive - i.e. closed - file, the file is 'archived', DLA/Govt speak for destroyed.  So those of us who did the right thing and did so more than 14 months ago don't have a paper file with the DLA.  And, to make matters worse, the computer file is effectively purged - i.e. deleted - so there is minimal information on the DLA's computer system, like 'this person received the benefit'.

    I'm getting this information in writing in the next few days and the person told me that if we have any of the paperwork from the previous claim, it may help if we could copy it and return it after receipt of their letter.

    Apparently, this is another reason that the DLA's legal people still haven't made a decision and why the staff there are still in limbo!!!

    OK lawyers, how do we ask for a judicial review?

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    I am quite impressed with how you manage to get information from the dwp.

    I have an interest in this matter as my wife's dla was stopped  when we arrived in France.  Perhaps it was fortunate that the dwp carried on paying her for a few months before then realising and subsequently demanding it back.  I say "fortunate" because the repayments were arranged in instalments such that her file was kept live for a long time afterwards; I assume it still exists.

    I wrote in a few weeks ago to query the situation and gave relevant details of my wife's claim, but received a standard fob-off type letter without any indications of what the outcome may be, nor any idea of timescale.

    Subsequently I telephoned the Exportability Team phone number, but eventually it was answered by someone at the general Help Desk.  He managed to bring my wife's file up on his screen but knew absolutely nothing about the recent EU ruling, except that "he heard there was something happening".

    So, from the info you have got, it seems that they are or will be looking at individual cases.  We'll probably get more news from following this thread than waiting for the dwp to contact us!

     

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    Martin, No 1 rule is never write unless it's the initial claim or an appeal - currently there's a 2 month lag in OPENING post at the DLA building and up to 3 months for a reply.

    Phone and then get them to confirm in writing, quicker and easier usually.

    Edit: Should have added that if I wished to I could claim under the special rules part of the legislation but choose not to do so, sometimes that concentrates their minds and they get even more helpful.

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    Tony I appear here in a differing guise originally being a member of this forum when in Normandie and when I had some input on this question in that my wife has suffered from a let us say qualifying illness for over thirty two years and exportability did indeed come into my arguments.

    I would not wish to go over old ground but when they first said no to us I just kept the file in front of them and went to various tribunals (travelling from France) not only for my wife but for others and  totally pro bono for that indicates the strength of feeling on this one.

    Essentially our file was 'live' and has never died and indeed our argument was slightly different

    A Judicial Review is normally an ex partie application by those 'aggrieved' over a decision that a body has taken that is from memory illogical unreasonable and irrational.  It stems from a case called The Wednesdbury rules.  Google it and it will give you lots of background.

    Normally its used (Harry Rednap used it recently in respect of the City of London Police and won) to challenge decisions that fall under Wednesbury.  It goes to the High Court in front of a Single Judge who rules and decides whether the decision was illogical unreasonable and irrantional and has a number of powers available to him.  They are old Latin based but he can quash decisions order a new investigation and the like.  It is not inexpensive and can run into thousands and  thousands of pounds and you have to instruct a Solicitor who then instructs a Barrister and bluntly it could go one way or the other.

    As I view matters the Legal Department have not moved since the decision of the Court was announced.  And that conduct may well fall under Wednesbury however the instructions must be given to a Solicitor to act and to ask his or her view of the likelihood of succeeding.

    Again you can threaten the DLA with a JD but it is well recognised in law that you do not threaten something that you will not carry out.  Thus if you threaten then you must be prepared to carry it out.

    Maybe a round robin letter from those on here who are affected strongly worded and directed to an individual 'on high' and in a personal capacity might help.  Again think about using your local MP or European counterpart but of course you are in France so that might be difficult.

    If I can add anything or help anyone then please just let me know.

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    • 2 weeks later...

    Not sure if this really adds anything to the thread, but we have received replies back from both the DLA and CA office, to letters we sent to them back in April.

     They have both just printed off the information that is available on their website, although I now notice a paragraph entitled: What to do next, if leaving the country. I am not sure if this has been there all along, or something that has been added recently. The only new piece of information we received in the letter, my wife received from the DLA office, is that we must inform them immediately when we plan to leave the UK, and her claim will be dealt with by an adjudicator, so I guess this is some sort of step forward.

    There was no mentioned in her letter, suggesting that she will or will not be entitled to an E121 via DLA.

    I know this will not help anybody already living in France, but could possibly inform people who have yet to leave the UK.

     

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    Hi everyone,

    Just seen this thread and I am a little confused, I moved here permanently in February and am in receipt of long term incapacity benefit and the mobility component of DLA.  I had informed DWP before I left but it took them months to send me a form re my DLA and I have just received this week a letter saying I am not entitled to DLA as I am no longer resident in the UK and have no intention of returning.

    Is this correct?

    Thanks for your help,

    Kind regards

    Michelle

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    You really do need to read all of this thread to bring yourself upto date with what's been happening to the exportability of UK benefits and you should also be reading the DirectGov website regarding benefits.

    Briefly the European Court of Justice decided on 18 October last year that the UK Government acted illegally in withdrawing certain benefits when claimants moved abroad. The UK Government is still considering it's response to this.

    In your case the mobility component of DLA was specifically excluded in this jugdement so it appears that DWP are acting correctly.

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    Hi Benjamin,

    Thanks for your reply, I did read all of the thread but I was even more confused[8-)] after which was why I posted.  I am actually quite relieved that I don't have to appeal or anything as I came here to help my health not make it worse!!  I had already factored in to our move the loss of my DLA so losing it has not been a shock.  However I am very sorry for all of you who are reliant on that money and are having to go through an appeal process, I know these things are long and drawn out and fraught with stress.  I really hope you all get the outcome you need. 

    Kind regards

    Michelle

     

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    Hi Michelle

    I don't think any of us are reliant on the DLA money and any sensible person coming here would have known that under the old regime, DLA would not have been payable when we moved to France and therefore we would not have factored that into our budget/s.  It's the rule change from the EU that has made repayment/payment possible so therefore for all of us, it would be a bonus.  I never see this as making my health worse, just another bureaucratic hoop though which we have to jump.

    Latest news, chez nous - my letter arrived, together with a large addressed envelope asking me to send as much information about my previous claim to the Exportability team so it looks as tho some slow/small progress may be made.

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    • 1 month later...

    Right, the plot is thickening.

    Spoke to the DLA Office this morning and the help desk - and the person I spoke to was very helpful - said Exportability Team are swamped, understaffed and are now not responding to calls.  She walked my call to their office and hopefully I will hear from them this afternoon, only the seventh answered call in ten days and only the fifth time I've asked the ET for a response..

    HOWEVER, the help desk supervisors had a meeting with the Exportability Team last week who have said a final, governmental decision, will be made in NOVEMBER this year - NOVEMBER, some of the more severely ill people could be dead by then!!!  Were one cynical, you'd think that is what the government is banking on - literally, banking on!

    Now this is unacceptable and I think we need to start taking this to the politicians, if Jim Murphy is still the Europe Minister, perhaps it's about time we started a sustained campaign to get his interest, as we did about the French health changes last year.

    The UK Government knew, well in advance, they were likely to loose this case and did nothing pre-emptive.  The Exportability Team should have been in place well in advance (I've done that sort of work for the Government in the past so know how the system works) and the decision should have been made long ago.

    Not angry, boilingly furious that people are being treated like this - and it's not the money, it's the bloody principle that matters now.

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