Reaching 65 and receiving UK state pension soon

[NormanH]

[quote user="tinabee"]

[quote user="Lachouette"]Have just rung DWP and asked about the S1 and was given the advice that if I'm working and OH is already in the French health care system because I pay cotisations, then that situation will continue once he reaches 65 provided I carry on working and paying those cotisations.

Does this ring true with anyone?

Jan

[/quote]

This does not ring true with me. I am still working in France but my OH claimed UK state pension (and obtained his own S1) last year.  As far as I can tell, the general rule in France is that you can only be dependent on another's healthcare contributions if you have no access to your own cover. As your OH is entitled to an S1 as part of his UK state pension, then he should have his own cover.

We found the easiest way to claim UK state pension from France was to use the on-line service:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/eservice/

 

[/quote]

As I already had my French pension this is what I did,( thanks to your links before)  although it isn't the procedure set down, and I got my Pension through

[Lachouette]

Rang DWP this morning and got a different answer! Yes, once he reaches 65 he will need an S1 form, which can't be applied for until he's actually in receipt of his UK state pension, and his health costs will then be picked up by the UK. Assuming that RSI will carry on paying as he's my dependant, all should be well, but I'll report back later when we've set this process rolling as he won't be 65 for another month.

Wonder if I rang the DWP a third time I'd get a 3rd variation on this theme?

Jan

[EmilyA]

Excellent result! I guess he will be covered by RSI until his birthday and then it will UK. Don't forget to apply for winter fuel allowance!

[NormanH]

This EU site shows clearly which country is responsible for health care when you are retired

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire/healthcare/index_en.htm

Note:  If you receive a pension from the country where you live, you and your family are covered by that country's healthcare insurance system — whether or not you are also receiving pensions from other countries.

There is then a worked example of someone who has always worked in France except for a period in Italy when young

He the retires to Italy, so because  lives in Italy AND receives an old age pension from the Italian authorities, he belongs to the Italian health insurance system.

The same is true for English people in France who have a pension from France even small. It is France who is responsible for health cover not the UK.

This is a European system not a purely UK or French one, and some offices in either country may not be aware of it.

Mine was, Emily's wasn't

[idun]

RH, you have explained it really well........... and it is exactly how it'll work for us. Once the UK pension kicks in, then, with UK income, then we'll swop from being in the french health care system and needing E121's for the UK, to just the UK one.

We have found that the CPAM and the CNAV and Newcastle understand how it works, even though I didn't at first. I naively thought that UK residence was enough to 'just' be in the system in the UK!

[EmilyA]

It is the second bit in your link Norman. If you receive a pension from several countries then health cover is the responsibility of the country where you worked the longest. At least I thought so but reading it again maybe not........ Hmm

[NormanH]

That second part is  the case where  you do not receive a pension or any other income from the country where you live then if you worked in several, then the relative lengths of time rule applies.

But if you  worked in 2 and now live in one of them that country is the competent state irrespective of relative lengths of time as shown in the first example

[idun]

It is the residence too that counts. That is why NH has his health care from France, as he lives in France, even though he worked for longer out of France. And we will have UK health care (rather than E121 cover) when the UK pension kicks in even though the working life in the UK was less than in France.

[Coquelicot]

I'm 62, have worked in France for 5 years and have just applied to RSI for my French and UK pensions. I thought that having a French pension, however miniscule, would entitle me to assurance maladie in retirement.  The RSI told me today that the pension is so small that it will be a VFU - versement forfaitaire unique - instead of a monthly pension payment, and that getting the VFU means that I am not entitled to assurance maladie.

Searching on the web it appears that before April 2012 a VFU did give entitlement to continuing

assurance maladie during retirement, just like monthly pension payments do. 

But in April 2012 the law was changed

and no longer gives this entitlement for new pension claimants. 

So in these circumstances one needs to be an ayant droit, or use the CMU, or to have cover from the UK via S1. 

Better to know all this beforehand...

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=CCC88A70B6903FBFAF6601676F4C4594.tpdjo17v_1?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000025747061&categorieLien=id

[idun]

Surely you are better off getting an S1 from the UK aren't you????

[NormanH]

I am not sure if the Coquelicot is a man or a woman, but'an S1 is not available until you are in receipt of a UK OAP.

When did you stop paying côtisations? You should have a period of time before you lose your cover for medical things and then, as you have worked for 5 years you will be able to go onto the CMU until you reach the required age.

Obviously this is an awkward moment but in the long term it is better to be on an S1 as those à la charge of France have to continues paying social contributions which in my case come to far more than my French Pension is worth.

This explains why EmilyA had a different experience to mine, as she had a single payment.

[Coquelicot]

Thanks

for your comments Idun and NormanH.

 

The

Coquelicot is a woman, so can retire at 62 in both countries.  So far so

good!  I stopped cotisations in Dec 2012 and am waiting for confirmation of my pension from France and the UK.

To explain, before our meeting with the RSI yesterday, I was under the

misapprehension that, as Norman says earlier in this thread, "... The same is true for English people in

France who have a pension from France even small. It is France who is

responsible for health cover not the UK.”

France is responsible for dealing with your pension application, but is not necessarily responsible for paying for your health cover.

 

As usual the devil is in the detail…

• I anticipated free couverture maladie from France on
  retirement, however small the pension turned out to be.  I thought this was how it works and indeed until April 2012 this was the case. 
• But the RSI told us that,
  because I will be paid via VFU, I am not eligible for free couverture maladie.  We'd never heard before of VFU and researched it after the meeting. I found that this only applies to new retirees since April 2012.  It is designed to prevent people who have contributed very little in terms of cotisations and trimestres from having access to free health care on French retirement.

• They said I would have cover as an ayant droit of my OH who is still working, and if he stops working he would qualify for a year's free cover. After that he (and therefore I as ayant droit) can be covered by the CMU. Good news while he's working, but bad news ultimately because his RSI pension will also be miniscule so we thought we would have to pay for cover via CMU cotisations for life plus social contributions, even after working for 40 years in both countries. Even the RSI lady thought that was a bad deal, but she didn't really care.

However:

• We had no idea that, on receipt of UK retirement
  pension, I would be entitled to an S1
  from the UK, despite having worked in France.  I only found that out by
  ringing Newcastle later in the day.  I expected not to be reliant on the UK.

So obviously the S1 is the best choice for me.  And my OH should be able to stop work, have his year's cover and then be an ayant droit of mine until he receives his UK pension and S1 in a few years time.  The only fly in the ointment then is the possible secession of England from the EU............

I

was making these points as a warning to others (about how easy it is not to know the real facts, and how poor the RSI is at communicating anything about this). In our experience the RSI simply responds to questions so if you don't quite ask the right question you don't get the right (or full) answer.  We might not have chosen to work as independents if all this had been clear from the outset. 

Bon courage à toutes et à tous!!

[NormanH]

Thank you for the update on the situation about the VFU, which I mentioned earlier in the thread. I was obviously out of date by a few months with my comments.

I am not quite sure how this new French rule squares with European legislation

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire/healthcare/index_en.htm, but I suppose they will argue that the VFU isn't a pension

In fact as covered by an S1 you will be better off than if you would be if you were the couverture maladie, since when you make your Tax declaration you can say that you are not à la charge of France and you will not be liable to pay the social charges that those of us have to pay on our pensions including the OAP from the UK.

[Hereford]

If the OH gets a French pension then I don't think he will get a UK S1 himself as France will be paying. Unless you move back to UK therefore France will want the Social charges on his money!!

[idun]

Hereford, that is right to a certain extent, but not completely.

At the moment, living in the UK with a french pension, then we pay french social charges, but not CSG etc on the french pensions. Once the UK pension starts, as we now live in the UK, we will no longer need an S1 from France, and the french social charges will stop on the french pension and we will get the french pension brut every month.

edited