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UK to stop issuing S1's to early retirees from April 2014?


Sprogster
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According to a thread on another French Expat Forum, the UK government have gone out to consultation about stopping issuing S1's for early retirees from April next year. Apparently, the entitlement of early retirees to an S1 is unique to the UK and not an EU requirement and stopping this will save the UK government money.

If this comes into effect, it means UK early retirees moving to France will need private health insurance from day one.
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I didn't think the UK govt issues S1s to anybody who wasn't receiving the State pension, so are early retirees those who have left work and are living on their own means, or on private pensions? I'm on my husband's S1 (not yet State pension age) but receiving a private pension. More details please?
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consultations.dh.gov.uk/overseas-healthcare/migrant_access/supporting_documents/Sustaining%20services%20ensuring%20fairness%20consultation%20document.pdf

See page 48 section 6.8

We propose to stop issuing residual S1

forms from 1 April 2014.

Current Process

6.8.  The UK issues form S1 for non-state

pensioners, outside the requirements

of the Regulations. This process is

applicable to UK nationals, who are

not in paid employment, and are

residing in another EEA member

state. The form was introduced in

1982, primarily to provide healthcare

cover for early-retirees, allowing them

time to integrate into their new

country of residence. It provides

them with health cover for up to 2.5

years.

6.9.  Forecasts indicate that the UK pays

out around £4 million a year in

relation to citizens in receipt of a

residual S1.

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There is an overview here. Links to the documents are at the bottom.

http://consultations.dh.gov.uk/overseas-healthcare/migrant_access

Too late to make any contributions, the consultation ran only from July 3rd until September 8th this year![:(]

The part referring to early retirees and S1 issue is on page 48.

Some of the information is quite startling, such as, on page 5 :- 

the NHS struggles to identify and recover the cost from those not entitled to free treatment

Page 40 gives some of the reasons hospitals don't chase payment from people who should be paying; I was surprised this is still the case.

We offered to pay for for an urgent operation while on leave in the UK in 1978, as we had very comprehensive health insurance through my overseas employer.

The hospital admin. refused this, saying it was simpler for them if the NHS paid. They also suggested we might be offering this in order to "jump the queue", which was definitely not the case.

I suppose the free treatment was justified in that it was an emergency, but I felt they should have accepted payment when it was offered.

 

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Just for info - S1's are also issued to those who work in the UK (PAYE) but live in France - effectively a transfer of benefits with the UK picking up the tab. I received S1's from the UK for 9 years whilst living in France. Same happens the other way round for people working in France but living in the UK - France issues their S1's.

nectarine - be interested to know how your husband qualifies for an S1 issued by the UK -is he still working and/or contributing in the UK OR is it a residual S1 issued following your exit from the UK? An S1 would not be issued solely on the basis of being in receipt of a private pension......

Chiefluvvie
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That would be lovely NormanH - just so long as the country where you work is happy for you to pay all your employment taxes and contributions in the country where you live. Current EU legislation requires you to pay where you earn.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who live in one country and work (or are based) in another.

Chiefluvvie
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[quote user="Chiefluvvie"]

nectarine - be interested to know how your husband qualifies for an S1 issued by the UK -is he still working and/or contributing in the UK OR is it a residual S1 issued following your exit from the UK? An S1 would not be issued solely on the basis of being in receipt of a private pension......

Chiefluvvie[/quote]

Husband is over retirement age and was already when we left the UK. I am a child bride!!!!
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Unless something has changed in the last 15 months ................. yes.

I was a 'dependent' under (so to speak) Mrs G for 5 yrs until 6/12.  I then received an S1 in my own right.

BTW, that mucked things up good and proper because after 12mths I was told that my CV couldn't be 'mise a jour'. My own fault: I should have sent off the form that arrived in the post for a brand new CV. So now I've had to surrender it (its OK, I've been given an attestation) and after nearly three months, I'm still waiting for the 'send this form off with a pic for your new CV' document.

It'll turn up eventually. 

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But we are an english couple living in England and we have to have a french S1. As the french were so tardy in sending it, we started to get calls from Newcastle on  a regular basis demanding that we get it from the french. And that is how the system works, with regards to us[:)]

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According to the NHS web site:

Exemption category: exempt from all NHS hospital treatment charges 

Expand the category and it says:

Anyone taking up, or resuming, permanent residence in the UK.

You must have the right to live here permanently, or a route to

settlement allowing permanent residence in time. You may be asked to

show how you have emigrated to the UK

Also from the archive of an earlier version of the site (May 2012)

Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to

free NHS hospital treatment in England.
“Ordinarily resident” is a

common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone

who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled

purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being,

with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a

sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.

On what basis are they asking for an S1 then ?

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I think AnOther is right.  All EU citizens legally resident in the UK have entitlement to free and full NHS care from the day they arrive. A passport and proof of address would be all that is needed to get immediate care and then NHS registration.  I think it is only the UK and Austria which base entitlement solely on residency.  The only reason I can think of for the S1 that idun has to submit would be for the NHS somewhere down the line to bill the French, but with or without it idun is entitled to free NHS care for as long as she needs it.

Aside from the (perhaps) unnecessary generosity of the UK government in respect of NHS care based on residency, and even though I have benefitted from a residual S1 since moving to France, it does seem in itself to be overgenerous.  What should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU country should have immediate access to the state health system and immediately begin paying towards it.  That seems intuitively right to me.      

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What

should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU

country should have immediate access to the state health system and

immediately begin paying towards it.  That seems intuitively right to

me.   
   

I totally agree.

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When we moved back in 2008, we had to hand over initially an E106 which

then  became and S1. Later we  had to hand over an E121 now

S1. French income /UK residents. And that is why we have to have a CEAM

rather than an EHIC. And as we still pay cotisations in France, then the

french should pay for our health care.

Believe me when the french didn't come up with the E121(S1) Newcastle was regularly in contact with us demanding that we get it.

Yes, in our case everything is being done properly. And if I could be bothered to look it is on the web. [Www]

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When we moved back in 2008, we had to hand over initially an E106 which

then  became and S1. Later we  had to hand over an E121 now

S1. French income /UK residents. And that is why we have to have a CEAM

rather than an EHIC. And as we still pay cotisations in France, then the

french should pay for our health care.

Believe me when the french didn't come up with the E121(S1) Newcastle was regularly in contact with us demanding that we get it.

Yes, in our case everything is being done properly. And if I could be bothered to look it is all on the web. [Www]

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[quote user="Daft Doctor"]What should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU country should have immediate access to the state health system and immediately begin paying towards it.[/quote]I agree completely, that is totally in the spirit of the EU and free movement, however the problem is that every member state has it's own financial model and system for the provision of health care all I believe inferior to the NHS which, being free for residents at the point of delivery, is unquestionably the gold standard to which all others should aspire but few if any could afford to.

Since the likelihood of the NHS dumbing down and degrading to meet other members lower standards I see absolutely no possibility whatsoever of anything even approaching harmonisation in the foreseeble future.

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" the NHS which, being free for residents at the point of delivery, is unquestionably the gold standard to which all others should aspire but few if any could afford to."

Only trouble being that the NHS can't afford it either, if what you read in the papers about filthy hospitals and too few nurses and morale problems amongst NHS staff is anything to go by. And, a lot of people in the UK opt to go private for that reason, so they are paying into the NHS and not even using the service.

I would base my gold standard on quality of care, not on making it free at the point of delivery. I don't even see this as a particular virtue, because people tend to value a thing more if they have paid something towards it. It's bad psychology to make people think that medical care comes for free, so no worries about wasting your doctor's time, it costs nothing.
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[quote user="Daft Doctor"]

What should happen is that any EU citizen taking up residence in another EU country should have immediate access to the state health system and immediately begin paying towards it.  That seems intuitively right to me.      

[/quote]

 

Intuitively it sound right - but it is wrong at so many levels.  If you take the "large" number of (pre-)retirees who emigrate to place like France and Spain, are we saying that these countries should become immediately responsible for their health care - even though they have contributed not one cent to their respective new home countries.   Further, if on relatively low incomes they may continue to contribute at a minimal level - if at all.

 

What a perfect way for countries to get rid of their  obligations to the old.  Offer them very poor conditions for staying at home, but if the emigrate they get free health care on someone else's account.  So persuade them to leave.  In Germany, where 100% health insurance is demanded it would encourage the entire aged population to leave.

 

And that is why Idun has to  provide an S1 from France to the UK - which intuitively sound even more wrong than most  cases.  Having spent a large part of the working life in France and paying contributions there, it is the French that cough up.

 

I would be all for a unified system across Europe - but that would require a harmonised system of payment and levels of healthcare.  At the moment the harmonised system, says that where you were last employed and paid significant contributions will pick up the bill.

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