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Paying your GP


idun
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I watched with interest all the medical workers on strike last weekend, especially GP's.

There have been lots of posts about getting a carte vitale and how people did not want to pay up front, in fact the importance of a carte vitale took on an importance that was way beyond me. Probably because I managed perfectly well, as did 50 odd million french people without them, for years and years.

Now probably wrongly on my part, I have had the impression on this board that the not having to pay up front meant that no one was actually making any payments to anyone anymore and that everything was being done via their carte vitale.

The strike, that, certainly on the GP's part, was that they didn't want any more paperwork/accounts to deal with and wanted the payment from their patients when they saw them.

My question, does anyone on here not pay their GP, but just use their carte vitale? I know that my son has to pay his at each visit,and has to still pay his kine too.

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Mine is paid only with the card. The so called paperwork that the medics are moaning about is actually all computerized; he downloads to CPAM etc periodically.

I wonder if the medics are not concerned that they will no longer be able to trouser black cash or overcharge.
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Our GP takes cash or cheque only. We have to present our CV so we get reimbursed almost all of it, but before we got the CV he was quite happy to see us and take payment anyway.

The pharmacy however, is almost always a cashless visit, unless the prescription is for something non reimbursable. CPAM reimburse whatever they have to, and the balance automatically comes from the mutuelle.
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[quote user="idun"] I know that my son has to pay his at each visit,and has to still pay his kine too.

[/quote]

Here too; I pay the doctor 23€ and am then reimbursed by both CPAM and my mutuelle. For the kiné I pay only the non-sécu part of the bill, the CPAM part seems to be taken care of straight away.

Edit : I do wonder though as we are very much a tourist area whether the GPs taking cash/card/cheque is a hedge against potential non-payment by some holiday makers.

Sue

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[quote user="woolybanana"]Mine is paid only with the card. The so called paperwork that the medics are moaning about is actually all computerized; he downloads to CPAM etc periodically.

I wonder if the medics are not concerned that they will no longer be able to trouser black cash or overcharge.[/quote]

Interesting.

Knowing how good the government is at paying it's

'bills', which these would be, I am wondering how quickly payments are

made to the GP's at the moment. The interesting thing I saw on the news

on Sunday was how many trainee GP's were against this. Now these young

folk have been brought up with IT, so why do they not want it?

Wooly, any chance of asking your GP how long a wait your they have before they get paid by the secu?

Of my two GP's, one would not use a computer at all the other would. Both have retired very recently as it happens.

Holiday makers wouldn't have a carte vitale anyway and a CEAM/EHIC would not cover a GP's bill.

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I get the money in my bank account in days so there isn't any real reason why it should be any different for the doctors. It is also a system that seems to work very well at the pharmacy. OH and I were discussing yesterday as to why they were so anti it and we couldn't see why. This was after seeing a poster at the dentists that was against it.. It made us laugh as the amounts that are reimbursed for any treatment I've had with him have been miniscule, but have appeared in my account a few days after I settled the bill. Wouldn't have thought any delay on their payment would bankrupt him! My French teacher said it was possibly because it might make people go to the doctors more..but I can't see that 23 euros would put off a hypochondriac whereas it could deter someone with no money.
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The problem, as put to me by my GP, would seem to be that at present you submit your Cv and pay your 23 euros. Were you just to present your CV and did not have a mutuelle (which the GP would not know) they would only get paid 70% of the 23 euros and would have to subsequently chase you for the balance. The admin involved for GPs in sole or small practices would be enormous.
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I know what you're saying, but that is exactly how it works in the pharmacy. The mutuelles re-imburse the pharmacy and then I think the government reimburses the mutuelle . I don't have top up so I pay the extra directly to the pharmacy. I can see that it will require investment in the same type of computer systems as is at the pharmacy. Surely it must take time and cost money for the doctors to bank all those 23 euro cheques and cash?
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[quote user="idun"]

Holiday makers wouldn't have a carte vitale anyway and a CEAM/EHIC would not cover a GP's bill.

[/quote]

Apologies Idun I really didn't make myself clear, our area has 95% French holidaymakers and 5% other varieties so most of the visitors to the Drs would have CVs.

Sue

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The government do not reimburse the mutuelles. The mutuelles are covered by our top up policies. What happens in our pharmacy is that at the beginning of the year the pharmacy confirms and photocopies mutuelle details so that we don't have to show evidence of top up each time. They know then that they will be paid by the mutuelles. At least the pharmacies are retail traders and if there's no evidence of top up you pay the difference yourself. Doctors cannot afford all the admin required when they only get 23 euros per visit anyway. There's also the time involved chasing money. For this reason I'm on the GP s side.
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Ok then, so when I go to the pharmacy then the government reimburses the pharmacy directly for their portion and then the mutuelle's reimburse the pharmacy for their bit?

I'm not on anyone's side as it makes no difference to me whether I pay up front or get the money back into my bank account from the government. (It's a good way to get rid of a bit of cash!) I just can't see how it would be any more work for the doctors..and in Woolybananna's area it seems to work okay. If the systems are in place why would there be any chasing to do? I never have to chase for the reimbursement.
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We live in a country area and almost all the Doctors around here work without receptionist or admin assistance. They work hard enough without having to deal with the admin involved in dealing with CPAM and waiting and monitoring receipts from CPAM and the various mutuelles. They would have to collect money from those patients who have no mutuelle. At present all they need to do is collect x number of cheques for 23 euros and pay that in. It is bound to create more work for GPs and no saving for CPAM.
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It does seem that there are a lot of regional differences in efficiency. Here it's all very slick and all done by computer. I check my online account every now and then and all the payments are done and processed automatically. I doubt any of it is ever seen by a human. My pharmacy collect money from me as I don't have a mutuelle . The amount to charge me comes up on their computer and it doesn't seem that complicated. If it is automated then I think it would save everyone money. Don't the GPs currently get charged by their banks for each cheque they pay into a professional account? Of course I suppose the problem is that the systems might not be available everywhere.
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Without a card, then one sends the forms  in which take a little time to be processed and I believe for those with a mutuelle the information is passed on directly to the mutuelle and they reimburse their bit quite quickly these days.

 In the olde days, we had to send in our forms, then wait for the CPAM to send out a form with their reimbursements on it, and then send that onto the mutuelle, who would also pay in their own sweet time. Hospitals would accept a copy of the attestation and IF they dealt with one's particular mutuelle, which was not always the case, then one paid nothing at all, but as often found ourselves in the situation of the mutuelle not being recognised by the hospital, we would have to pay that part up front.

Slow, yes, and one had to do the paperwork right and keep copies of it all, but actually it worked.

I think that it was the young trainee GP's who were upset about it all that had me wondering what exactly was wrong with the current proposals. Sounds like some regions are trialing the new system, that is how it works isn't it, they give it a try and then whether it works or not, push it out to the whole country?[Www]

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I have heard people say that's how it used to be here! That must have cost a fortune to administer! When OH hit his head and had to have stitches in A&E he was eventually sent a bill for the contribution that wasn't covered by the state cover, which came to all of 12 euros, He wrote out the cheques, sent it in and then they posted him back a receipt. The whole process must have cost at least 50 euros when you look at how many people would have had to be involved!

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  Not quite, there isn't the waiting for the CPAM to do their bit before a mutuelle will pay up, but apart from that, if someone hasn't got a carte vitale, it is still the same. Ofcourse the attestion would work at the hospital, but my son lost his carte vitale last year or was it the year before and had to do all the paperwork, no change at all from what he told me he had to do, as to what we had to do for many a year.

I agree the administrative costs will have been huge in the old days, I wonder if the secu actually reduced staffing levels when the carte vitales came in........?

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As suggested, there do seem to be significant regional differences.

I always carry my mutual attestation with me. In our own department everyone seems to know that this attestation exists after it has been recorded at the pharmacy. I am never asked for it, although the laboratory do ring up to confirm that it is still valid.

If I cross the border into the Drome, I have to show the attestation wherever I go.
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