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Cancer Treatment in France


Grecian
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Sorry that you came across such unhelpful people.

They are technicians usually  and not very forthcoming as they have a line of patients to process.

The person who should have done any explaining and preparation is the Doctor who specialises in Radiotherapy.

During the sessions I had the possibility of as short consultation with him just after any session (once they had got underway) to feed back any problems I was experiencing. It would be worth while asking if there is a similar system in Poitiers.

I am afraid that both me and a friend of mine who is having treatment for breast cancer at the moment have found that the reality of how you  dealt with is far from the rather rosy picture of concerned helpful informative care that one reads about. It was all the more a shock because of what I had been lead to believe.

If you want my mobile number in case you need someone to translate on the phone in a really difficult situation send me a PM, but it is a poor substitute for somone on the spot and of course I don't know those hospitals and their ways..

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That sounds grim, Grecian, so sorry that you've had those experiences; that you're gritting your teeth ready to get on with things shows you're determined to get through it and come out the other side.

Sorry too that your wife has been made so upset by a so-called carer; it's hard enough to support a husband without being made to feel like that.

I hope your doctor has supplied you with a prescription to help with side effects; if those don't work, there are alternatives that can be given. It might be that someone from CSF would come with you for your treatment, even if not every time; they could help to support you to help keep your morale up and help with translations during treatment.

A couple of thoughts from my experience; not all parts of French medical treatment are uniformly good, although many are, yours isn't an exception, just as nurses during my radiotherapy in England were not all kind or helpful although the majority were.

I spent about 12 hours on Monday of this week in the emergency department of our local hospital in France. Again, not all staff were 'angels'; painkillers didn't arrive for a very long time despite me asking several times 4 hours after taking those prescribed by the doctor initially, nor was water brought for a long time despite asking several times - this had also been sanctioned by the doctor. By the time I arrived home I was somewhat dehydrated; I never did manage to fill the urine container I had been given for testing.

Language wasn't the problem. The nurses were really run off their feet, although some of them were still very professional and really helpful. On my way to and from the X-ray department I saw several of the small rooms each with people on 6 or 8 trolleys in spaces only just wide enough for trolleys between curtains, while they were being assessed following their arrival in the emergency department. Each of of us needed various tests, X-rays etc, as well as medication, and needing to be heaved and pushed to toilets on our trolleys etc.

Do plan your little treats on your way through your treatment, they do help. You'll have bad days but you'll also have better days to make the most of. Remember that your friends on here as well as your real life friends are thinking of you.
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Sorry to hear of your own problems gardengirl, I hope that your own situation has improved, you never know when something will strike and for you to end up in an emergency department for 12 hours is something I guess you never thought would happen to you, but we all know that anything can strike at anytime. I know personally now that although life on the whole in France is superb, when illness strikes, especially a serious one the rosy version of  French life can soon disappear, as you found out last Monday. Once again I hope you are now on the mend. I will try and plan a few little treats, but at the moment we have totally given up on 'normal' living, and just take on each day what I have to go through, I guess some people would act differently, I suppose it is down to the individual.

Norman, many thanks for your offer of your translation via your mobile phone, I will bear the offer in mind. Yesterday and today I went for my treatment on my own and coped OK, basically it is now just take your place on the conveyor belt, go in one end and come out the other end until the next day. I was given my appointments for next week and I am due to see the consultant again on Tuesday, so my wife will come with me for that appointment but not the rest of the week. I have somewhat accepted the level of response from the staff now, as you said they are technicians doing a job, and I guess they do no want to get involved in any conversations with their patients that would slow the process down.

mint, I have been brave on the taxi front, and engaged with the driver yesterday and today, mainly in French, although both could speak fairly good English, especially today we spoke entirely in French. Must say I could understand what the driver today was saying to me more than yesterdays driver, although he would say something and usually laugh afterwards, so I just laughed along with him.[Www] It takes a lot of conversation to fill a two and a half hour total journey, so there were some long silences. I guess in the last two days I have spoken more French since I gave up my French lessons two years ago, than ever before. Only another 24 journeys to go, I am sure I will be fluent by then.[:)]

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Also, doesn't this illustrate how important it is to get to grips with french make it a priority when moving to France, and not depend on one's other half either? Because one never knows what the future holds.

I keep saying the 'not knowing' is the hardest, but in some cases maybe the added 'not understanding' could add further fears for some people.

Your hospitals don't sound much different to the ones near me. I have had dealings with some lovely medical staff and then there are the others, the Nurse Rachets and Doctors more interested in a free lunch and the 'rest' from pharmaceutical companys than their patients........(even though they shouldn't). The aide soignantes and cleaners, always lovely though, and from my point of view, the only ones who always did their jobs well.

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I agree with you idun, you should be able to speak French if you live in France, I did extensive research on all other matters before we made the decision to move to France, and started lessons in the UK before we left. We continued to have French lessons for the first 4 years of living here, so I really have given it my best shot. I am not totally useless, I just find it very difficult to understand what somebody is saying to me, which is not ideal whilst trying to have a conversation. I think I was slightly ahead of my wife for the first year, then I suppose about 2 years ago it was as though somebody flicked a switch in her head and she was picking up what people were saying to her. I think the problem comes down to the fact we are very insular people and do not really mix with any French people socially, so the only use we have of the language is when we go shopping. Hopefully the taxi journeys will improve my French a little as it is forcing me to think and speak in French.

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In your defence I have to say that I am pretty fluent in French but it can desert me under stress, particularly when I am annoyed. [6]

You are obviously a close couple and I can't imagine that you speak French to each other at home.

I (like Chancer) am surrounded by French only and apart from a couple of places like this I hardly use English anymore.

One of the keys to understanding what they are saying is knowing the context and if you have lots of trips with the taxi service you will probably start to find that the same things keep cropping up which helps as you recognise them from last time..

Don't try saying 'Proper job' and 'where's it to my lover ?'  when you use English though ...[:)]

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'Eee by gum duck you are right Norman, I won't use all the phrases I learnt when I used to live in Yorkshire.[:D]

I think the taxi driver today was trying to assist me with context as he asked me three times if I had any children, so perhaps he was struggling with things to say as well.

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Grecian, I am delighted that you have kept your sense of humour and are managing to find amusing incidents to lighten the "pénible-ness" of all that is happening.  Ah.............you see, it's English that I find a problem with sometimes![:-))]  More often than not, I understand French words as I have heard or read them used and I really am not too concerned if I can't translate it exactly; not as long as I understand the concept or meaning of the French word.

Keep on ticking off those sessions, Grecian, you will soon be delighted to see that you have ticked off your last one![:D]

I am with you that understanding speech is about the most difficult; I believe that teachers call this activity "listening skills".  If you do go back to French lessons, get the teacher to play you texts from films, songs, etc and to give you a written text to follow at the same time.  Our teacher does this sometimes and I surprise myself how much I CAN understand once I have gone through the written text of what is said! [:P]

Other times, she will give us the words to a song with some words blanked out and we would have to fill in the blanks.  This also works really well.  And you do get to understand more and more spoken language with a bit of concentrated listening!  OH always claim that I don't listen enough so that could be why I struggle to understand anyone else speaking than myself[:-))]

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  • 4 weeks later...
By special request of the 'tooth lady' here is my latest update. I am now into week 5 of my treatment which consists of 28 radiotherapy treatments not the 27 I first thought I was to have. Unfortunately with Christmas Day and New Year's Day falling into the period and Poitiers hospital's obsession in servicing the zapping machine during the week, and not at the week-end, my treatment will stretch into the Wednesday of the seventh week, it is due to finish on 28th January.

I have been experiencing some side-effects unfortunately (stop reading now if you are eating), whilst not having full blown diarrhoea I am having to go the toilet 6 times or more during the day. I am a little tired although not so much as to knock me out, some nauseous feelings, but luckily not the main event. A very sore bum, and the need to pee on a regular basis, apart from that things are fine! To date I have seen two interns and the consultant twice. Both the interns were very nice and are still human, not sure when that part is surgically removed, and they have given me pain killers, anti sickness pills and anti diarrhoea tablets. On the other hand the consultant has shown little interest when I have met him. I have to have a blood test weekly to check that my immune system is holding up, after the first time of seeing the consultant I have learnt to take a copy of my blood test results, as nobody has put a copy of them in my folder, which I find a little scary because if the white cell count falls too low, my treatment should be reassessed, fortunately my white blood cell count has held up, so no problems there.

The radiotherapy nurses on the whole are reasonably friendly, some more than others, although there are a couple of grumpy ones, I guess you would find that anywhere. Rather annoyingly my appointments are changed on a regular basis, unfortunately for them they telephoned last night just after I had arrived home and I was in the shower, trying to change todays appointment to 18.40 an hour later than it is scheduled, Mrs Grecian told them in no uncertain terms that I was not prepared to change my time, so I guess I may receive a frosty welcome this afternoon.

As regards to Christmas mint, it didn't exist, we had fish and chips for are main meal, I did the hoovering, and for the first time in about 25 years did not drink a single drop of alcohol[:(], I only have a glass of wine on Friday and Saturday nights, as there is no treatment the next day. I have read it is OK to consume some alcohol but just playing safe at the moment.

The taxi journeys have been enlightening, it ranges from one driver who does not stop talking all the way up and all the way back, all in French and I have managed to reply to him reasonably well, to another driver who just seems to have a total look of fear on his face when I try talking to him in French. I mustn't forget the singing taxi driver who on the return journey of one trip sang along to all the songs on the radio, a little embarrassing as he did not have a particularly good voice. Some days I just can't be bothered to try and say very much, especially as the same one show up on a regular basis, so most topics have been exhausted.

All in all I am somewhat fed up at the moment, as my life only consists of pooping, taxi rides and the zapping machine, I will really appreciate life again when the initial treatment stops, I know there will still be a long way to go, but there will be a lull between treatment end and my operation, so if I feel up to it, we will try and maybe do some normal things we used to take for granted before all this started.

Best wishes to you all.

Richard

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Good to hear from you and all things expected on the health front. Nice to know the whole setup runs pretty much the same from my experience this side of the channel, with shifting appointments etc.

I found fresh fruit especially a nice apple helped with sickness feeling more than tablets etc.

Still you are coping well so all in all that's good.

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I'm afraid that the runs are a recurrent problem with this particular cancer, and may be the cause of your soreness as much as the radiation.

To feel secure I found that , humiliating as it sounds, wearing a Tena slip ( a bit like frilly paper knickers) when I felt most at risk was a godsend, since I then wasn't afraid of the worst[+o(]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tena-Large-Pants-Super-Pack/dp/B001AQK5BM

Once I used those the fear of accidents diminished and in fact I only needed them 'in anger' about 3 times...

Don't be too proud to try.  This illness leaves no room for that ...

The problem with white blood cells didn't affect me with the radiotherapy for prostate cancer, but it did very much with the chemotherapy for the one you have, and in fact my white cell count dropped so low that they stopped the treatment since I had to have Human Growth Hormone to encourage my bone marrow to produce more cells, and if the count had gone any lower I would have had to have gone onto barrier nursing.

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Hi there, Grecian, here is the "tooth lady" come to apologise for not having even acknowledged your post.

Having waved "good-bye" to our visitors some 4 hours ago(and, mon dieu, how tiring it has all been) I am now here to say that I think it's great how you have .....................er kept your end up.  I don't mean to be rude and no pun is intended.

It's admirable how you have borne with all the unpleasantness, the uncertainties and the sheer boredom and tiredness of your treatment.

Not so long to go now before the last session and then, the next phase.

I wish you all the very best for continued success of the treatment and a restoration to good health in the very near future.

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gardengirl and mint many thanks for your kind wishes.

Norman many thanks for your link, thankfully up  to now they have not been necessary, I did look into them when I was first told that my treatment would be at Poitiers and thought how on earth am I going to get there and back. With only six treatments left now, hopefully I will manage to make it up and back without any mishaps. I continue to have the need for the toilet six or more times a day, but nearly there so must just grin and bear it. Very sorry to hear that you white blood count dropped so low, something you would not need on top of everything else that needed facing at the time.

Had what you could call a small setback today when I saw the consultant, who is off skiing next week so I will not see him again as my treatment will end next Wednesday. I assumed that I would have either or both a CT and MRI scan at Poitiers, but he informed me today that I must telephone the surgeon at Bressuire and inform him that my treatment will end next Wednesday, it will then be up to him to decide what is required. I guess that this makes sense but I felt like saying why can't you write to my surgeon and inform him of my progress, so it looks like it is back into the screwball French system again fending for myself. I guess I will have to contact his secretary and tell her, and then I assume I will be placed into the system at Bressuire. The consultant told me that it will be at least six weeks before my operation, will certainly be glad of the rest.

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Yes they will want to let your system have a rest and get your blood count to normal after the Chemo....it is that that is giving you the problems I suspect.

Good luck with the  next step. At least I had a relatively co-ordinated plan since everything was done in the same centre.  I can imagine the extra strees that adds and that you don't need ...

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  • 2 weeks later...
Just popping in with an update. I completed my 28 sessions of radiotherapy and chemotherapy last Wednesday, must say I found it harder than I thought it would be, I guess the 3000 odd miles I clocked up never helped the situation, on top of that the weather was pretty awful most days for travelling. Unfortunately I am still experiencing the side-effects, bum pains, hurting when I pee and far to much use of the toilet on a daily basis, must say that element of the side-effects is the one dragging me down the most. Add to that the kind taxi driver I had on the last Monday gave me a stinking cold, which I am still suffering badly from. I was really angry when I sussed he had a cold about half way up on the outward journey, pairing a driver who is infected with somebody whose immune system had been compromised due to the chemotherapy was totally irresponsible.

As I posted in my last update the consultant at Poitiers told me I had to telephone the surgeon's secretary to inform her my treatment had been completed. Thinking it would be easier I e-mailed her last week, and in true French tradition the e-mail was totally ignored, so I thought here we go again. Yesterday I went to see my own doctor and brought him up-to-date, he telephoned Bressuire hospital immediately asking why I had not received a reply, not too sure as to how the conversation went in French, but bottom line I have an appointment with the surgeon 17th February. Not sure as to why I will be seeing him as there will have been no new scans to show him, also I have been given an appointment to see the consultant at Poitiers 5th March, so I guess between them they will sort out a plan of attack for me.

I now have to hope that after all this treatment the tumour has been shrunk sufficiently for the operation to take place sometime presumably in the next 2 months. I have never been told that it is inoperable, it is just the fact of trying to shrink the tumour sufficiently so that I do not have to have a permanent stoma. Just taking things as they come, as I have done throughout the whole nightmare, I am hoping that the operation will be keyhole surgery, otherwise it will be a lot longer stay in hospital if it is open surgery. After the operation is completed and any biopsies carried out on any lymph nodes they removed will determine if it is another 6 months of chemo, I really hope not, but I guess if that is what is required then I will just have to go along with it.

So I have got this far, I hope that the hardest part of the whole treatment is now out of the way. I would like to thank you all once again for helping me to reach this stage, very much appreciated.

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mint, there are some wonderful vinyl floorings that look amazing. I looked at the stuff that gets stuck down, and is sometimes in strips or squares or oblongs, the best I have seen are karndean and amtico, both available in France.

Tiles, remember they are cool for animals in summer and a rug  can soon be plonked down in winter that any animal would gravitate to.

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Thanks for the update. A major step in your recovery[:)]

As for the 'hurting when you pee' has anybody given you a blood test to see that you haven't picked up a urinary infection?

I think it is standard these days to attempt to use keyhole surgery for this operation. They did for me then had to change over as the surgeon couldn't get full access, but he had warned me that this might happen. If he hasn't said that he probably thinks the keyhole will work ok.

I have to warn you that it is a pretty hefty operation and it knocked me back for a while, but then my general health was poor and as I say I had to have open surgery.  I am only saying this so you can plan together for how your wife will be helped as you will be out of action for a while unable to perform your usual role.

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Grecian, you've come quite a way since we all first 'met'. It sounds pretty uncomfortable for you just now, but Norman's idea of a test seems a good idea. I think you might have the current problems for a while, but at least you won't have the travelling to do. I suggest that each time you pee, you aim at that taxi driver's face in the toilet pan! Rotten thing to do to somebody having your treatment! Not his fault really, he does what he's told, but still, rotten.

Both of you look after each other - if you're getting this bitter weather and high winds/snow you need lots of TLC and comforting soups etc and nice fires to sit by etc. Take care, and don't forget to pop in and let us know how things are going.

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Well done Grecian, and wise words from Norman, re urinary tract infection, very easy to pick up anything in your immune compromised state and as for the taxi **##**! I can't stand taxi drivers at the bet of time but that was irresponsible of them.

Fingers crossed for key hole and a faster recovery but do remember although keyhole is smaller entry they are still doing their fantastic work under the skin so take it easy. I set a new record in St Thomas's the lifts are very slow so I walked back up 11 floors (slowly) it's amazing what morphine will let you do!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Another update.

I saw the surgeon at Bressuire this afternoon, the news wasn't quite what I had hoped for, but was prepared for. I have not had another MRI to see the extent as to how much the tumour has been shrunk, but the surgeon put his finger up my bum again this afternoon and said the tumour has been shrunk to about 2 cm, that's the good news, unfortunately the bad news is there is still a ganglion that has grown off the tumour just inside the rectum. The ganglion is too close to the base of the rectum to be certain of removing all the tumourous cells and he informed me for extra security he was proposing to remove everything, and give me a permanent stoma, something I had been aware of all along as to what might be required.

He gave me the option of a second opinion, something that I was going to ask for, but he willingly offered with a specialist surgeon in Bordeaux to see if he can operate and save the spincter. I have taken up the offer, unfortunately the doctor is on holiday this week but the surgeon at Bressuire is going to telephone him next Monday and discuss my case with him. I have another appointment with the surgeon at Bressuire next Tuesday to find out the outcome of the discussions. If I see the specialist in Bordeaux and he tells me a permanent stoma is required, then so be it I will accept the situation and get on with life, at least I will still be here and able to care for my wife, which is paramount to me.

I must say the surgeon at Bressuire was very nice this afternoon and showed plenty of compassion, something he did not do the first time around. After he had examined me I wasn't fully understanding what he was saying to me, and as it is so important I told him that I did not understand in French. He then explained the situation to me in English, unfortunately I replied in French and then it was back to full French mode, but my wife was with me, and we managed to grasp what he was telling me.

So bottom line for the sake of about 2 cms it looks as if I could end up with a permanent stoma, pretty unlucky I would say if only the tumour had been just that little further up the rectum I may have got away with it. As I said in my last update at least the option of an operation has been there all along, which I must be grateful for, but when the bloody thing has been reduced to only 2 cms it seems a big price to pay.

Regarding the side effects, things have got a little better, I still have a slight pain sometimes when I pee, but it is better, the toilet use is a lot better and almost back to normal thankfully, must just keep grinding on and hope things return to normal.

Thank you all for your previous replies to my last update.

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Good to hear from you Grecian, yes these things are always one step forward and ......

The problem as I understand it, although the tumour is only 2cm + whatever it's brother is they take almost everything in a radius of what's affected and short of suggesting you do a head stand during the next examination they play it safe.  Quite whether that's entirely necessary hopefully your second opinion can answer.  I know they base that on cells collected from the lymph nodes but I am not sure ther are any lymph nodes that far down or whether further rectal tumors is what they are worried about.

It prompted me to google sphincter transplant as there are quite a few donors to be had on Ai forums [:)]

Wishing you all the best when you see the specialist.

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I had a stoma for 6 months and I can say that for some time after it was closed and I was supposed to be back to 'normal' I wished that I still had it. Nearly 4 years on things  have improved, but that side of things has never really been the same, and it is in fact more handicapping being uncertain of when you will have to rush off to the loo than having the Stoma which is easy to manage and predictable once you are used to it.

In other words the stoma isn't the end of the world even if you would prefer not to need it.

I found that using a ready-formed ring of the sort of putty they put between your skin and the support for the bag made a world of difference to how secure I felt, but you would have a specialist stoma nurse to advise and help

Another factor is that I reckon that it is better to have a more radical operation which should remove all the cancer than risk leaving any behind.  I had a post op sequence of chemo to try and make sure that it was all knocked on the head but you have already had one course so I don't know if that would be right for you.

Glad to hear that the Doctor is showing signs of humanity...

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