l'Assurance Maladie - birth certificate problem

[Michael64]

We have hit a problem in registering my wife with l'Assurance Maladie because her birth certificate does not "match" her passport. She was born in Japan so her birth certificate is Japanese. She became a British National over 20 years ago so has a British passport. Japan does not allow dual nationality so she was unable to renew her Japanese passport when it expired many years ago.

The lady at CPAM in Albi suggested that the British Consulate could issue an based on her certificate of naturalisation. I have spoken to the Consulate in Bordeaux who said they couldn't do this.

We are both retirees with S1 certificates although mine is as a dependant of my wife's as I am not yet 65. CPAM will therefore not process my application action on its own.

Does anybody have any experience of resolving this impasse?

[alittlebitfrench]

You may want to ask the same question on this forum as it is more international and deals with such questions.

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/france-expat-forum-expats-living-france/

[Gyn_Paul]

Perhaps the Japanese Embassy could be persuaded to do a translated copy of the Japanese birth certificate?

[mint]

If the Japanese embassy won't do it, you could get a notary public (possibly in Japan) to do a translation and provide a bit of text to say that it is a true and witnessed copy (my words may not be exactly correct) of the original.

You could also go down the route of a certified translated copy but that tends to be more expensive and it might not be the easiest thing to find a Japanese-French registered translator.

[Michael64]

Thank you alittlebitfrench. I will do this

[Michael64]

Thank you too Gyn_Paul and mint. I did ask whether a translation was what she meant and she said no. However if I don't find another solution I could try this.

I have also asked a local Notaire if he can help, but he has not come across this problem before.

[NormanH]

These are competent to do a translation:

https://www.annuaire-traducteur-assermente.fr/traduction-certifiee-japonais-59.html

[Michael64]

Thanks NormanH.

[lindal1000]

There must be a way round it. Dutch people don't have birth certificates so it must be possible to provide some sort of alternative proof.

[idun]

Sounds like the lady at the CPAM is talking out of her botty! Acte de naissance indeed, as if.

We had all our paperwork translated, marriage certificate, and birth certificates, and I believe divorce certificate too. That was a long time ago and was very expensive, but done once.

I really suggest that you get everything officially translated, certainly the japanese birth certificate, and the british nationalisation form, but please please, make sure that everything matches and NOTHING is 'lost in translation'.

 In fact with brexit looming, I would get everything done . But that is me, ours came in very handy over the years, and yet people who arrived well after us apparently needed nothing, but there you go and things will soon be a changing.

[Michael64]

Thank you idun and lindal1000 for your replies. I think translation of the document is the way forward, and then another visit. I will post the result in due course.

[idun]

If it is any consolation, I have a friend who is married to a french man who was not born in France, and she is german. When their son wanted to work in something governmental, the paperwork demanded was horrific. My friend's mother is also german but born in a part of Germany that is no longer German and did not have her birth certificate and was VERY difficult to get hold of.

And all this because they required birth certificates of both parents and all the grand parents.

Good luck with all this.[:)]

[Debra]

Usually all they mean by this is that the name doesn't match.  It's standard in France for a woman to have to provide all documents to prove changes in name from birth to current passport.  French women don't lose their maiden name when they get married. 

I've now been divorced twice so I have to provide my birth certificate, first marriage certificate, first decree absolute, second marriage certificate and second decree absolute along with my current passport.  I've had to do that with every official organisation since I arrived in France - even to register my children at school.  It's to prove you are the same person shown on your birth certificate and also to prove family links to husband and children.

I never got my certificates translated in the past and CPAM and CAF accepted original British ones but I would expect to need a translation of a Japanese one.  I know that since my arrival many people have been required to have their British ones translated and that's happening more and more now, which is ironic because there is  law going through within the next couple of years which says translation won't be required within the EU - probably just in time for brexit, so I agree that anyone who hasn't had them translated should probably do so now.

The money laundering regulations have had an affect on my family with regards to this subject too.  A few months ago I  opened new tax free savings accounts for my children.  Even though they had already had accounts with the bank for a number of years, I had to provide copies and translations of birth certificates less than three months old for my minor children because of these regulations.  Luckily I'd just had them all done in preparation of my son's naturalisation application and in case they were needed (which they weren't) for my carte de sejour application.  The bank was actually less flexible than CPAM and the prefecture in that they insisted on the less than three months old bit whereas if you argue it a bit, government organisations will accept that British certificates never change so it's unnecessary to get an up to date copy.

Of course all this is easy to do for French people so they don't understand the difficulty or expense it causes us.  This fact was highlighted by the fact that my bank manager phoned the mairie that issued my youngest son's birth and asked them to fax him an up to date acte de naissance, because I hadn't had his British Consular one translated or a new copy of the French one issued as I hadn't even realised they would be needed and just happened to have all the others in a file in the car as I'd just been to the prefecture to apply for a carte de sejour.  They did so, free of charge, within ten minutes.  Compare that to having to pay 9.75 for a new British copy certificate (£15 for a Scottish one) and 30 euros to have it translated (normally more like 50 euros but I got a discount because I had so many to do).

[idun]

French birth certificates are only valid for 3 months and they do do adendums to birth certificates.

I do not know how the CPAM is supposed to know that things are different in other countries. And yes, it is expensive, but that isn't their problem is it.

We have ended up having to get forms from the Consulate that cost far more than a british birth certificate, cannot say I did not have a moan about it, but what can one do[Www] simply pay up![:D]

[Debra]

CPAM do know it's different in other countries - or certainly other EU countries.  They didn't require a certificate less than three months old from me and I haven't heard that they do now, though I have heard that some of them ask for translations but they accept old ones.  The bank however, insisted on less than three months old for both the certificates and the translations and I know that's a requirement for a naturalisation dossier.

[Debra]

Anyway - my point was that it's quite normal in France for them to require a document that proves that the person born with name X married and changed to name Y and is related to children with name Y - and the same again if you divorced, remarried and changed to name Z which is your current name on your passport and maybe the name of another child. 

My driving licence says Mme Y epouse Z and my carte de sejour says Mme Y divorcee Z.  The reason for the epouse and divorcee bit is that I still use my last married name and haven't reverted to my maiden name yet (8 years left on a passport and they're not cheap to renew :) ).  Once I revert to my maiden name I'll only have this documentation problem if I have to prove my relationship to my kids but as my youngest will be 18 by then I'm anticipating I won't need to do that anymore and life will become more simple :)

[Judith]

Am I now pleased that I didn't change my name on marriage, the second time round.  I had enough troubles getting it back once, and that was in the UK.

And can anyone explain how a birth certificate EVER goes out of date ... you are born, it changes not!  So why only less than three months old.

Sometimes I will just never understand the French.

[idun]

I did say......... they put addendums on them in France, so it does change in France, hence the 3 month rule. [:D]

[Gyn_Paul]

That's fascinating (odd, bizarre, and French) !  What are the nature of these adendums (adendii?)? Changes the the mother's details, perhaps?

[Judith]

[quote user="Gyn_Paul"]That's fascinating (odd, bizarre, and French) !  What are the nature of these adendums (adendii?)? Changes the the mother's details, perhaps?

[/quote]

Yes, I was wondering that too!

[andyh4]

Mother divorces, remarries, changes (notionally) her family name.

[idun]

What they give you once the birth is declared within 3 working days, is  a slip of paper, in fact they issue a few of these, and basically it looks like nothing properly official at all. Well that was the case for us after the birth of my children, and was what the last one I ordered looked like, as my son needed one.  

What are considered the 'proper' details are on the Livret de Famille, the authorities like a Livre de Famille and we didn't have one.

Notes are made on the register at the Mairie if circumstances change. The full extent of this, I do not know but an example would be changing a prenom (after jumping through hoops), but I  know that there are other things that are recorded and added on the Mairies register.

[Judith]

[quote user="andyh4"]Mother divorces, remarries, changes (notionally) her family name.[/quote]

But if it is a birth certificate for a child, surely what the mother was called at that moment is all that is relevant .... other certificates will (should) show changes in the name etc during the course of her life, but the facts at the birth of her child remain the same whatever she does later.  Weird indeed.

[idun]

All I know is that when one gets a copy, it is a photo copy of the register with the added notes if they are there.

 I ordered the last one about 5 years ago and that is what it was like, I accept that they could have changed the format since then, but I am sure that all details will be there.

It does not change the initial record though, that will always be shown, just shows subsequent things.