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Early Retiree healthcare


bettyboop
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Have had our house in France for nearly 20 years, seriously considering moving over shortly..we are 63 and 60...would be selling our UK house and living on the proceeds,with no income...my question is

Would we have to have Private Medical Insurance or

Can we apply to CPAM/PUMA.....I understand its 8% of your earnings, but as we have none, would it be 8% of our UK house proceeds.

Has anyone else done this recently.

tia
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Agree with the previous posters.

It's regarded more favourably by the French authorities if you make your savings generate a secure regular income, rather than just spending them, potentially until there is none left. As said, there is some kind of formula they use to arrive at a notional income figure if all you have is savings, but they seem to have a fair amount of discretion and since French law actually specifies income levels not saving levels, contesting an unfavourable decision might be difficult.

Looking at the bigger picture, the criteria you need to meet in order to live legally in France, are essentially the same criteria you need to meet to be accepted for PUMA (ie sufficient income to be self supporting, as per EU Freedom of Movement directive). So, if you're not eligible to join PUMA then you're probably not going to be eligible for a carte de séjour either, and if Brexit comes to pass, living below the radar is going to be a lot more hassle than it has been in the past.
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There is not anything complicated about this at the moment, it is clearly indicated on the service public web site........ for EU members.

Post brexit, may change the game.

You will have certain conditions to adhere to for five years. The link should be live, but the pertinent part is below.

Although for the life of me, how people manage to live on such a small amount of money, especially as one has to pay for private health  insurance......... strange[blink].

However, that is revenue, and you say that you will live on savings, and I do wonder if that is the same????? would they accept it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Entrée en France

Pour entrer en France :

  • vous devez être muni d'un titre d'identité ou d'un passeport en cours de validité,
  • et vous ne devez pas représenter une menace pour l'ordre public.

Conditions de séjour

En tant qu'inactif ou retraité, vous devez :

  • disposer d'une assurance maladie-maternité,
  • et avoir des ressources suffisantes pour ne pas devenir une charge dans le système d'assistance sociale français.

Votre

droit au séjour sur ces 5 années peut être prouvé par tout moyen (par

exemple concernant vos ressources : relevés bancaires).

Jusqu'à 65 ans

Le

caractère suffisant de vos ressources est apprécié en tenant compte de

votre situation personnelle. Dans tous les cas, l'administration ne peut

pas exiger que vos ressources dépassent les montants suivants par

mois :

Ressources suffisantes

Conditions

Montants

Si vous vivez seul(e)

Sans enfant

559,74 €

Avec 1 enfant

958,37 €

Avec 2 enfants

1 197,97 €

Avec 3 enfants

1 438 €

Avec 4 enfants

1 677 €

Si vous vivez en couple

Sans enfant

839,62 €

Avec 1 enfant

1 007,55 €

Avec 2 enfants

1 175,47 €

Avec 3 enfants

1 399,37 €

Avec 4 enfants

1 567,29 €

Revenir au sommaire de cette partie

Demande de carte de séjour

Vous n'êtes pas obligé de posséder un titre de séjour.

Toutefois, vous avez le droit demander une carte de séjour Citoyen UE/EEE/Suisse - Non actif.

Droit au séjour permanent

Après

5 années de résidence légale et ininterrompue en France, vous obtenez

un droit au séjour permanent. Vous pouvez prouver votre droit au séjour

sur les 5 années précédentes par tout moyen (relevés bancaires). Vous

n'avez ensuite plus besoin de justifier les conditions de votre séjour

(ressources). Vous pouvez demeurer définitivement en France, sous

réserve de ne pas représenter une menace grave pour l'ordre public.

Vous pouvez demander une carte de séjour Citoyen UE/EEE/Suisse - Séjour permanent - Toutes activités professionnelles, ce n'est pas obligatoire.

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I did not mention top up insurance at all. I just mentioned what was said on the french servicepublic web site.

Conditions de séjour

En tant qu'inactif ou retraité, vous devez :

  • disposer d'une assurance maladie-maternité,
Which basically says that for those who do not work, or are retired, they are duty bound, (which I would say is actually 'obliged' as a proper definition) to have health and maternity insurance.

It, nor I, mentioned top up and I would hazard a guess that that would have to be private health insurance, what else is there???

And why not, medical bills can be horrific and I am sure that the

french would want to ensure that all bills would be paid by the

insurance by everyone who was not in the french health system and five

years is a long time.

Could I live on 560€ a month if on my own, including paying private health insurance......... perhaps, but I would not want to. For a couple with the extra insurance, I would prefer not to either.

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You can opt into PUMA (what was CMU). You would pay 8% of any income over 9000 euros. So with an income of 839 per month you would pay 8% of 1000 euros. Even Americans and Australians can opt into PUMA now..anyone can..it was one of Macron's changes..
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As an EU citizen, as long as you meet the criteria for legal residence you can affiliate to PUMA after 3 months. That is then your compulsory insurance sorted.

For evidence of health coverage during the first three months, in practice many CPAM seems to accept an EHIC or not ask at all, although it is a grey area.

As a non EU citizen applying for a visa you would have no option but to provide proof of adequate health insurance as part of the visa application process.

Once you're here and past the first 3 months, well the U in PUMA is for Universelle. PUMA provides healthcare to everyone living in France 'in a stable and regular manner", so nobody who is here legally needs to take out private health insurance. In fact you are more or less obliged to join PUMA these days. PUMA cotisations for inactifs and retirees are billed automatically by URSSAF based on the figures on your tax return, even if you have never registered for PUMA. When the first PUMA bills were sent out at the beginning of last year, there were Brits trying to contest their bills on the basis that they shouldn't have to pay cotisations when they'd never had a carte vitale. I don't know what the outcome was but I suspect they had to pay up as a solidarity thing.
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Maybe we're looking at different threads but I can only see one reference to Brexit in this thread, and that was me flagging up that Brexit will trigger keener scrutiny of how Brits are exercising FoM. The relevance being that moving to France with zero actual income is potentially a grey area as far as France's interpretation of FoM is concerned, hence it could cause problems being recognised as legally resident and by the same token could cause problems getting accepted onto PUMA.

I don't know where the red herrings came from.
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Yes, I was out of touch, it certainly was 5 years........ and now down to three months to join. For someone not working that seems to be  un sejour tres tres court.........   I suppose because I have friends who holiday longer than that..... and they would never consider they had moved somewhere else.

Also, how will income as opposed to living off savings  be judged....... I do not know and I would suppose neither does anyone else on here. 

As we all know that each prefecture has it's own interpretations, one may find it OK and another see things quite differently.

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Three months is significant because technically that is the longest you are allowed to stay in France as a visitor.

To play strictly by the rules, after 3 months you either start doing the things that residents are required to do, or you leave.

Another thing that will likely be more rigorously enforced on Brits after Brexit, but BinB doesn't want Brexit mentioned.
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