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Separating cost of utilities


thepenofmyaunt
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We have a property which consists of a main house and guest house. To date the whole property has been rented out to one person but we are now in the position where we have different people interested in each house. The problem with this is that the utilities are billed for the whole property rather than each separate house and there is only one water meter, electricity meter, gas tank, etc. Is anyone else in the same position and if so, how do you handle this.

Thanks

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Well I can advise you what I do in the UK but France is rather different, I have heard from many sources who all think they know everything there is to know about everything and just love to tell me what I dont have the right to do) that you are not allowed to resell electricity in France, its against the law, I willgo to prison etc etc etc despite the fact that I know several people who have been doing so for years.

In the UK I have the main house rented out to tenants and a seperate dwelling which was converted from outbuildings à l'abri des regards, it is now a seperate legal entity in its own right, I use it as a pied à terre but could also rent it out should I wish.

I have sub-metered the electricity and water from the main dwelling, once a year or when the tenants are a bit hard up I refund them an amount equal to my consumption and a proportion of the standing charge according to our relative consumptions, it works to both our advantage as we both pay less than the normal standing charge.

If I were to rent out the second property I would at the very least have to underwrite the consumption of the second tenants should they not pay their proportion of the bills, I havn't really thought about it but maybe in that scenario, which I think is the one you are considering, that I would become the abonnee (or whatever its called in English) and bill each of them respectively.

Other than the alleged legal ramifications in France,  there is the consideration that the supply is very limited (by comparison to the UK) and the abonnement costs shoot up for higher KW supplies, if the principal tenant remains the abonnee they have the right to subscribe to a lower abonnement should they wish which could wreak havoc with the secondary dwelling tripping out the first etc, above all I am sure that you would be allowed to disconnect either of your tenants even if they didnt pay the rent or the electric charges thus you leave yourself and/or the principal tenat rather exposed.

My pal has a fermette, all electric including heating, he sub meters a gite and a studio, there is another flat but it has its own abonnement, I know that when all the chauff eau's kick in in winter it often trips his supply.

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[quote user="nomoss"][quote user="Chancer"]

 I havn't really thought about it

[/quote]

 

Hmm.

[/quote]

Not quite sure what to make of that comment!

In case there was any confusion I had not thought about renting the second property as it is now my UK home so I had never considered the question of charging tenants for their electricity usage.

I hope that makes it clearer.

I still love your user name [:D]

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[quote user="Pads"]If it was me Id stay in charge of the bills , divide then between the amount of people staying in the 2 houses and and charge each house accordinly .... So you charge them rent plus bills[/quote]

Staying in charge of the bills is fine, but tennants have rights in France too, so sub metering is not a bad idea. People like to know where they are with bills and that the bills are fair, it isn't as if utilities were a tiny percentage of a budget any more. Same applies to water too.

I took a friend to see a conseiller to help with her landlord who was over charging her for her water. In fact it was a rot weiller of a conseillere and she got my friend a refund.

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Nomoss, I have no idea what I'd do in the UK or any other country I'm afraid. That's why I'm asking if anyone has the same situation.

I had heard of small flow meters that will just count the units of electricity/water used but all the electricians and plumbers I've spoken to have no idea what I am talking about
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Are you talking about long-term lets? If so, from a tenant's point of view I think most would vastly prefer to get their own bills direct from EDF/SAUR etc, that way it is all entirely transparent and also, if you are a tenant it makes life a lot easier if you have utilities bills in your own name that you can produce as proof of address etc. Though I have no idea how much it would cost to arrange this with the utilities companies.
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We are in the process of getting our ground floor apartment ready for a long-term let (it's been a gite thus far, and leccie was just one element of the rent).  It shares a compteur with our part of the house (the other apartment is completely independent thank goodness!)

The immobiliere strongly advised against a forfait, or any kind of percentage deal.  Difficult to police and enforce.  He suggested either getting a "sous-compteur" fitted under the fuse box in the apartment, then effectively re-selling the electricity, which though illegal, he said lots of people do it , or, going the whole hog and getting edf to install a proper meter, and all the other electrical work involved.

We are lucky that we still have the old edf compteur for that apartment in the meter box, and the apartment has it's own fuse box, so it would not, I imagine, be too costly or tricky to reconnect it all again.  the reason we had them on one meter was to reduce the standing charges from edf.

Our water rates are very low here, so that will just be included in the rent - there's no bath in the apartment, and it is for single occupancy, so we'll just take that hit!

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Water meters are readily available in the brico sheds and the last time I bought any were €20 + each.

Electricity meters are harder to find and cost a fortune in France, if you have an HP/HC abonnement then you cant even use a simple meter without havng to estimate and apportion which puts you at risk if the tenant does not agree, I bought some French Din rail mounted electronic counters from a guy that used to have gites, I have the name somewhere but the company like many French ones will not even speak to a particulier let alone sell to them at any price.

Luckily there is cheaper option (I think) my tenants in the UK changed energy supplier (with my approval, although legally they didnt need it) to EON or whoever, as part of the deal they got a battery powered  energy monitor, the sender of which just clamps around the supply cable like my HP/HC meters, it can be programmed to whatever unit costs and off peak times etc and from what I can see will be the perfect solution, I bought one last night on E-bay, everyone that changes supplier often is selling their old ones on E_bay be they British Gas, Scottish Power, EON, ther are shedloads on there and they sell for £10-20.

Untill I get and fit mine I cannot be 100% sure it will do the job in France but other than a £ symbol instead of € I cannot see why not, time will tell.

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