Flora Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I'm so frequently exasperated with my windows XP and being at the point where I am thinking of replacing my system, I wondered if any of you have opinions on choosing between a mac and a pc? Thanks, Flora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Get a Mac. Do it now.Seriously - much easier to set up and use, and - this is important - the interface doesn't look like it was designed by a primary school class on a wet playtime.The new operating system (10.4) is at least 2 years ahead of Windles. Look at the Mac Mini or G5 iMac.This is being typed on a G4 Powerbook, networked wirelessly to the G5 upstairs - no sweat at all using Airport Extreme. If you have any educational associations you may well be able to get a discount, and a discount on Office.Oh - and you don't have to click on 'start' to close down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevehudson Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "the interface doesn't look like it was designed by a primary school class on a wet playtime"That's true, the mac is more aimed at infant school kids."Oh - and you don't have to click on 'start' to close down..."Maybe not.... but you do have to drag the CD tray icon into the trash can to eject a CD. Don't be taken in by probably one of only two mac user on this forum with his we are better than you rhetoric, this is an exert from a comparison website, answer the questions and then make your mind up.Don't buy a Mac if...you want to save money on your computer purchase.you want the greatest choice of style, shape, color, weight, size, etc. of your computer.you want the greatest choice of third party software.you want lower prices on third party software.you want the greatest choice of third party peripherals.you want lower prices on third party peripherals.you value the best future expandability of your computer.you want to be able to use 802.11a wireless technology.you want to be able to use 802.11g SRX/MIMO/Speedbooster/Super G wireless technology.you want to have prompt take up of new technologies.you already have a large investment in training on a Windows PC.you want firm "end of life" support dates set on your operating system.you want to buy from a reasonably forthcoming company about their future product plans.you want the greatest selection of games.you want the greatest choice for purchasing music online.you want the greatest choice of compatible MP3 (and other digital file formats) players.you want the greatest choice for purchasing movies online.you want to avoid the expense of too frequent and profound changes to the operating system and hardware that then require new purchases of up to date software and hardware to stay abreast of the latest changes.you would like to see lots of new functionality added to the operating system without paying for an all new OS every year (nine paid Mac OS upgrades in the last eight years '97-'05). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Whoa! Product envy or what!That isn't very helpful for someone seeking advice, now is it?What does 'better than you rhetoric' mean?And that isn't from a comparison website it's a cheesy old bit of pro-Windoze propaganda. Just because you use rubbish alternative don't just rubbish the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Stevehudson Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 rhetoric n. the art of using words so as to sound impressive."This is being typed on a G4 Powerbook, networked wirelessly to the G5 upstairs - no sweat at all using Airport Extreme"I rest my case"That isn't very helpful for someone seeking advice, now is it?"On the contrary, all the points are valid (unless you are disagreeing with them) and therefore constitute very good advice.Steve (66) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Sorry Steve, I still don't understand 'you rhetoric' - but please don't patronise - I know what rhetoric is, it's your syntax and lack of punctuation which confuses me. And incidentally, your definition is both partial and incorrect. Quel surprise. Look in a dictionary. That's a big book with lots of word definitions it.Of course I disagree with you, but then you are just trolling, aren't you?Instead of cut-and-pasting old stuff try writing it for yourself. Or should that be 'you self'? PS - did you realise that you called your cut-and-paste an 'exert'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 OK - it's a quiet evening so I'll buy the troll. Buy a PC:want to save money on your computer purchase - no, like for like the prices are much the same. There are just lots of bargain-basement PCs, and you get what you pay for. you want the greatest choice of style, shape, color, weight, size, etc. of your computer.Eh? Have you seen the monstrosities? Otherwise its a Dell black box or some beige rectangle. This is an insane comment. you want the greatest choice of third party software. - That old one. The only thing I've found not to be available on a Mac is Microsoft Access, and we're all the better off for that. you want lower prices on third party software. - Nonsense. Prices are the same across platforms. you want the greatest choice of third party peripherals. - Nonsense - USB is USB and this has not been an issue for 5 years. you want lower prices on third party peripherals. Nonsense. See above. you value the best future expandability of your computer. Uncontrollable laughing! Unless of course you want 3 internal CD drives... you want to be able to use 802.11a wireless technology. - I'm using it to write this... you want to be able to use 802.11g SRX/MIMO/Speedbooster/Super G wireless technology. No need. you want to have prompt take up of new technologies. Don't make me laugh - you still use floppy disks! you already have a large investment in training on a Windows PC. - Fair point, it takes a lot more training. you want firm "end of life" support dates set on your operating system. - Macs last longer - what is this about? you want to buy from a reasonably forthcoming company about their future product plans.- Who are they? The Microsoft who have been promising 'Longhorn' for the last few years? you want the greatest selection of games. - No, I'm a grown-up. you want the greatest choice for purchasing music online. - Have you heard of iTunes and the iTunes store? 80% market share! you want the greatest choice of compatible MP3 (and other digital file formats) players. - see above. you want the greatest choice for purchasing movies online. - See above you want to avoid the expense of too frequent and profound changes to the operating system and hardware that then require new purchases of up to date software and hardware to stay abreast of the latest changes. - This is nonsense. I still have a working 1986 Apple. Everything gets updated, though. Not like upgrading to Windows 2000 then? you would like to see lots of new functionality added to the operating system without paying for an all new OS every year (nine paid Mac OS upgrades in the last eight years '97-'05). - if you nicked Windows2000/ XP then Bill will be cross with you... you want the greatest selection of online and brick and mortar stores to do your shopping. - Umm, where? Ever been to an Apple store? you want the greatest selection for finding local service and support. - I had a logic board replaced in 3 days recently. you want the greatest selection for finding training. - very little training needed, but it's there. you want the greatest selection of training manuals and books. - don't make me laugh - Windoze for Summies? (Actually, that may be a misplaced question mark). you want the greatest selection of periodicals. - As in 'What PC'? Big selling point. you want a web browser that has the greatest compatibility with the greatest number of web sites. - and is losing market share by the day because people love it so much. you want the best performance for the amount of money spent. - daft comment - look at the performance of the DP G5s you want to have the best chance at getting "hand me down" parts and software when your friends, family, coworkers, and acquaintances upgrade (Macs have now had an approximate 2% market share for several years so that doesn't make for a very large pool of possible parts and software traders). - great selling point. Get your new PC from a skip? you want to build your computer from parts. - what a cool thing to do. Not. you want the fullest compatibility with DVD extra features. - again Apple free iDVD and DVD player software is industry standard. What is difficult on a Mac is stealing and copying other people's stuff. But then Steve Jobs is also in the movie business. you want the best integration with the greatest number of PDAs. - mine integrates fine. you want the best integration with the greatest number of mobile phones. - I use a phone for that - how about you? you want a tablet device (write on the screen and do input via the screen). - how useful is that? you want to integrate your computer with your XBOX. - again - very mature stuff. you want a media center experience integrated at the OS level. It is - you simply don't know what you are talking about. you want technology that scales beyond 2 processors. - I have 2 processors - who has 3? you want to buy a machine with one CPU today, and add a second CPU later when its needed or you can afford it. - is that possible with all PCs? you want dual core CPUs.- Funny that, I've had one for some time. Thanks for telling me I can't do it. you want a fully 64 bit OS. - Had that for a while, too. you want to be able to use high end workstation grade video cards (ATI FireGL/ Nvidia Quatro). - ditto you don't want to buy an expensive Mac and then have to turn right around and buy an add-on two button, scroll wheel mouse. - pathetic little comment. How many PC laptops have scrolling trackpads? once on a computing platform, you want to be able to upgrade your software at reduced upgrade prices (Apple does not have upgrade prices for its software like OS X and iLife). - Funny, my last iLife upgrades were free, but I did pay a discounted proce for 10.4 you live outside North America, Europe, or Japan (Mac solutions in the rest of the world are even rarer outside of those three places). - Eh? No Macs on Mars either. you value legacy support. - a meaningless comment, but simply not true. you want onsite repairs from your computer maker (most of Apple's support options require you to mail in your Mac or take it to an Apple Store). - I've had both, actually, but return to base can be quicker (see above). you want access to the larger pool of shareware software. - great. you want access to the larger pool of freeware software. - even greater. you want access to the larger pool of open source software. - Nonsense. Mac OS has a Unix base and therefore has a large open source poolo - in fact a lot of OS X IS open source, I believe. you want to burn CDs at a speed better than 24x (no Mac ships with a CD burner faster than 24x). - How old was the rag you got this from? Is a 16x DVD rewriter fast enough? you do not want to spend $1,999 to get a 16x DVD burner (the dual 2 GHz G5 tower is the cheapest Mac with 16x {a $379 PC that a friend got recently has a 16x Lite-On that also burns CDs at 48x}). - If you paid that to get a faster burner you'd be mad - but then perhaps it isn't the main feature of the machine. you want to be able to replace a motherboard that fails outside of warranty. - perhaps the only fair point in this farrago - but then there is a performance cost to using bog standard parts. you want to be able to inexpensively replace a CPU that fails outside of warranty (or in the case of the G5, replace it at all). - see above.Buy a Mac if... price is not a major concern for you. - seen the price of the Mac Mini? But I'm prepared to pay for quality anyway. you are employed in a Mac centric work environment (education, desktop publishing, graphic arts, sound production, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Stevehudson Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "You really need to try harder than this, Stevie."Obviously not DICK. By the way what's proce? And I am not familiar with the word commen. "Funny, my last iLife upgrades were free, but I did pay a discounted proce for 10.4""so would I - it's as dumb a commen as most of these."Looks like a spell check failure to me (that's the little dictionary icon in your word processor that corrects your spelling).iM off now to cook some iChips to go with my iFishiSteve (66) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Oh Steve, answer the questions or respond to the points, not the typos.And nice one, making fun of my name - mature, witty and totally rancid all in one.That's called irony, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Hoddy Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "Don't be taken in by probably one of only two mac user on this forum with his we are better than you rhetoric, this is an exert from a comparison website, answer the questions and then make your mind up."So that means that Dick Smith and I are the only Macusers on the forum. I'm very happy with my little old Mac and when I decide to replace it I'll have another.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Quillan Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Macs are good machines as are many PC's and laptops. I would say try before you buy as has been sid there is a difference in the way it works. A lot of PC software can run on a Mac and I believe it's still the case that MS Office is available for the Mac.The only negative thing I noticed about the Mac against a PC which was shown on a consumer program on the TV a few months back was the possible problems of getting them repaired if they fail, I am talking harware not software. Macs have to go to a Mac dealer when in warranty and I suspect Macs come with a 3 year one. I don't know where my nearest Mac dealer is in France but I have three PC dealers within 5 miles of me. Parts are not available so easily for a Mac as they are for a PC. PC stuff is easy to get your hands on even in France. Not having a Mac I don't have first hand experience but the program did indicate that in the case of say a motherboard failure you can wait a while for a replacement.Like buying any electronic equipment I would research it well and as I said try before you buy (both PC and Mac). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I can't speak for France, Chris, but I recently had something (probably a power spike) damage the logic boards on both my desktop and laptop machines. Both were replaced within 3 days - although that was with me taking in and collecting them. One was under warranty and one wasn't, and it was expensive, but it is a fairly advanced and expensive machine. No data loss in either case, so no real harm done.As for Office, because Microsoft 'leapfrogs' developments across the two platforms the Mac version is the 'latest' one, with a large number of improvements over the PC version, which will get them in the next release. Notable are the Project Center and a great deal of application integration. Word is still a bloated monster, though, and styles are still a pain. The only missing item is Access, but I use Filemaker (also transparent to PC) which is far, far better.If you need to use PC software it can run in emulation using Virtual PC. When Apple go over to Intel processors that may all be a lot easier anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "I'm very happy with my little old Mac"What more can I say...Actually I've got an old Mac Classic (1984 style) somewhere - works perfectly but runs a little slow by today's standards. At 25Mhz it was the fastest machine available when it came out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Quillan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 "Both were replaced within 3 days - although that was with me taking in and collecting them"Thats my point, I couldn't wait 3 days. My Compag had a CD RW problem, the drive was replaced in one hour which included me taking it to a local dealer, I couldn't wait for next day on-site repair. My Toshiba laptop blew it's power supply and I had to go to Carcassonne. The drive to Carcassonne and back took longer than replacing the power supply.Macs are not more complicated technically than any other piece of electronics, they are just different. I won't belittle the Mac because it has it's place and is a prefered machine with media companies for design work although most of the software is now available for the PC.At the end of the day it's down to personal preferances when deciding to buy a Mac or PC but the one thing I have noticed about Mac users is that they are very loyal to their brand especially those that have had them for many years. The biggest problem is that both PC users and Mac users are seldom fully aware of the advancements in the 'other' operating system. A friend of mine is a Mac user and has been for many years and is always knocking PC's and Windows. He has just bought a IPod and was saying how good it was and that it used the internet to find the names of songs etc so they came up on his IPod screen well MS Media player does the same thing. The IPod is not compatable with MS Media player or any other MS based product so you have to use the IPod software to rip and transfer music. The only problem with this is that you can only use it on one machine. If you go to a friends and use your software to copy some of their CD's it has to create a new library and then to download the music you have to delete everything on the IPod to do so because it came from a different library on a diffrent machine, crazy idea.The original poster implied he was having problems with his PC and that was why he was looking to change. The first thing he should do before making any change is to ensure his PC operating system is up to date and has all the lattest patches installed, this goes for Macs as well. Likewise he should have a good known brand of AV software installed. Viruses are not such a big issue with Macs at present but as Dick said they will be moving to Intel proccessors in the near future which will open them up to virus attacks and the other nasties associated with PC's.Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I think that's all very sensible, Chris, but the virus-proofing of the Mac is down to the operating system, not the chip architecture. MS is just sloppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Cat Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 [quote]"Don't be taken in by probably one of only two mac user on this forum with his we are better than you rhetoric, this is an exert from a comparison website, answer the questions and then make your mind...[/quote]I'll stand up to join ranks with Dick and Hoddy, make that 3 Mac users here I use both Windows and a Mac, I have learned to tolerate XP, but I love my Mac, it's a simple as that. They do inspire loyalty. When I worked in software development in the UK, we developed for both Microsoft and Mac operating systems (in fact, one of our customers was Apple). During the QA test phase of a project it was always Windows that threw up the most bugs. An awful lot of "serious" software developers have a major dislike for Windows operating systems. Ask them what they use at home, and it's likely to be a UNIX based system, or a Mac, or both!Having said that, for Windows users, a Mac can take a bit of getting used to, it's more intuitive, but you have to "un-learn" Windows first.And Dick is quite right to pour scorn on Microsoft for being so virus-friendly, never had a virus on the Mac, wish I could say the same for Windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Anton Redman Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Whoops - Nemesis follows Hubris posted text below twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Anton Redman Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 On the rare occasions I use anything designed by Apple I am almost always pleasantly surprised by how relatively easy it is to drive compared to compared to the latest changes to 'Windows' . For those who have no desire to find out what goes on under the bonnet (aka Hood) they do the job. The price premium versus performance is now much smaller in both absolute and relative terms than 10 years ago.I agree with most of the tick list for sticking various forms of Windows but would ask how relevant must of them are to an average user these days.What is proving such a pain about XP ?Just before I am accused of being a Mac zealot all the PCs in the house run either various shades of Windows bar one Linux machine. Also if ideograms / GUIs were such a good idea why am I not writing this in Chinese ?The oldest machine has a couple of parts which date back to an 80186 ( yes they did exist ) but a the cost of hardware continues to fall it becomes less and less attractive to salvage parts when you are up grading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Will Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 "So that means that Dick Smith and I are the only Macusers on the forum."No, it means that the rest of us don't feel we have to either rubbish those using a different system from ours or justify our own choice. Although I don't have a Mac at present, as I work in magazine publishing I have plenty of Mac experience and would happily have one again if I decided it suited my needs.I am sure that if Macs were more widely used than PCs then the sad virus compilers would concentrate on Mac rather than Windows systems.Another thing that nobody has mentioned is that a lot of the features of this forum are not available to Mac users. Though I know that's the fault of the forum software rather than Apple.To the original questioner, if you don't like Windows XP for whatever reason then a Mac could be an excellent alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Quillan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 [quote]I think that's all very sensible, Chris, but the virus-proofing of the Mac is down to the operating system, not the chip architecture. MS is just sloppy![/quote]Sorry Dick but a lot of viruses are in machine code now and as Intel is the biggest producer than any other CPU manufacturer most of these type of viruses are aimed and the Intel chips. The Mac as you know does not use a major manufacturers CPU, it uses some obscure Motorola chip or something simular that basically hackers and virus creaters just can't be bothered to write for. Of course going to a Intel chip does mean that you can run Windows XP with no emulation on a Mac which in some ways defeats the reason for having one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Dick Smith Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Chris - this is rather muddled and could be confusing. The 'obscure' company behind the Mac CPU is IBM...There is no guarantee that Windows will run on a Mac-Intel chip. As far as I am aware there is no commercial implementation yet. It looks unlikely that there will be a simple crossover as to do that would give away product advantage.The Unix kernel of the Mac OS simply does not have the security holes that Windows does, and Apple haven't p****d as many people off as Microsoft has...It's a lot like choice of cars. Most people are happy with Fords, but some want BMWs (which have about the same market share as Macs). Others buy Skodas and tell everyone around them how good they are, honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Alfa Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Flora,you shouldn,t be exasperated by Windows XP - it's really a very good operating system.Perhaps your pc is not set up well and a workover by a competent engineer should produce a rich and varied platform that is virtually trouble free.One of the keys to a really enjoyable and user friendly computer is to do regular 'housekeeping' such as clearing your internet cache, obtaining updates asap for the o/s, anti-virus programme and any anti-spyware programmes, defragging etc.Think of your computer like a house full of rooms - it contains clutter and dust and needs regular cleaning.I'm slightly biased as I'm a Microsoft (and Cisco and CompTIA) trained engineer but if you are just an average 'recreational' computer user I'd go with a pc. - If you are into serious graphics (CAD) then go for a mac.The macs look nice - the pc's offer oodles of easily accessable stuff , much of it free, and are just what the average user needs.The mac guys tend to think they are 'serious' about computing - the pc guys tend to just get on with it !Don't take any notice of the people who think it's clever to use derogatory words like 'windoze' or the like - it's a form of computer snobbery, it's very unprofessional and as such it is extremely crass !!Most people don't want to be an expert - they just want to surf the net, get e-mails etc. A pc does all this (so does a mac) but the pc offers a far greater choice.Alfa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Anton Redman Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 << a lot of viruses are in machine code now and as Intel is the biggest producer than any other CPU manufacturer most of these type of viruses are aimed and the Intel chips. The Mac as you know does not use a major manufacturers CPU, it uses some obscure Motorola chip or something simular that basically hackers and virus creaters just can't be bothered to write for. Of course going to a Intel chip does mean that you can run Windows XP with no emulation on a Mac which in some ways defeats the reason for having one. >>is the biggest producer than any - simular - creaters - With syntax like that at least I can sleep at night secure in the knowledge that you are unlikely to write anything succesfully in machine code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Russethouse Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 For the original poster - my husband uses a Mac, (graphics industry) I use a PC. Sometimes, in emergencies I use his Mac but I find it completely different, you would have to re-learn everything - do you really want to ?Also he is occasionally sent files that he cannot open, even with one of those Windows 'converter' type progs - this can be a real nuisance.Why not get someone to see if they can sort out your XP first, it must be cheaper than a new Mac ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Flora Posted July 1, 2005 Author Share Posted July 1, 2005 Hello again,thanks so much for all your input.I use my computer for our gite business ( website, all enquiries and bookings), general e-mails and, with our numeric camera and for leisure surfing or 'drifting' as my husband calls it which includes this forum of course!I get exasperated as it is always crashing ( problems identified variously as being caused by windows, aol and norton) although at least it goes faster with adsl now and I often get that blue screen of death.Last week it came up and says there is an ' erreur irrevocable'. Now it won't work at all and keeps on starting up, that message flashes on for a second and then the thing stops and restarts itself continuously.I know I should be cleaning out regularly, defragmenting ( whatever that is?) etc etc but I'm afraid that I am not at all technical and don't have much spare time either as I work as well, so I have to rely on the goodwill of my sons to come to my rescue. As someone said I am not very interested in what goes on under the bonnet , I just need the thing to work! I'm writing this on son's laptop now as he is still in bed , being only 21 and having finished fac for the summer! He reloaded the master cd for me last week when it was already misbehaing and had lost loads of e-mails, but now can't even do that because of the continual turning on and off.I know I'll have to take it somewhere to see if it can be repaired ( it is a laptop so that's not difficult) but as it is 3 yrs old I thought it might not be good economics and that perhaps I should change to a simple trouble and virus free MAC! I've looked at the apple. fr site and the mac mini does look interesting esp if I got a TFT screen in the sales elsewhere. It is the idea of having something that won't go wrong that temps me most.It would be better if I didn't have to splash out though really of course so if I am to go for the sensible course of action does anyone have any repairer to recommend (french or english) around depts 16 or 17?I thought if I could get it repaired for a reasonable price then I could pass it on to my younger daughter and get something else anyway later.... ?. Florawww.logis-la-cabane.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Create an account or sign in to comment You need to be a member in order to leave a comment Create an account Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy! Register a new account Sign in Already have an account? Sign in here. Sign In Now Share More sharing options... Followers 0 Go to topic listing All Activity Home Forums Living French Satellite TV, French Internet and Telephone Mac or PC × Existing user? Sign In Sign Up Complete France Browse Back Browse Forums Online Users Leaderboard Activity Back All Activity Search × Create New...
Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Whoa! Product envy or what!That isn't very helpful for someone seeking advice, now is it?What does 'better than you rhetoric' mean?And that isn't from a comparison website it's a cheesy old bit of pro-Windoze propaganda. Just because you use rubbish alternative don't just rubbish the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevehudson Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 rhetoric n. the art of using words so as to sound impressive."This is being typed on a G4 Powerbook, networked wirelessly to the G5 upstairs - no sweat at all using Airport Extreme"I rest my case"That isn't very helpful for someone seeking advice, now is it?"On the contrary, all the points are valid (unless you are disagreeing with them) and therefore constitute very good advice.Steve (66) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Sorry Steve, I still don't understand 'you rhetoric' - but please don't patronise - I know what rhetoric is, it's your syntax and lack of punctuation which confuses me. And incidentally, your definition is both partial and incorrect. Quel surprise. Look in a dictionary. That's a big book with lots of word definitions it.Of course I disagree with you, but then you are just trolling, aren't you?Instead of cut-and-pasting old stuff try writing it for yourself. Or should that be 'you self'? PS - did you realise that you called your cut-and-paste an 'exert'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 OK - it's a quiet evening so I'll buy the troll. Buy a PC:want to save money on your computer purchase - no, like for like the prices are much the same. There are just lots of bargain-basement PCs, and you get what you pay for. you want the greatest choice of style, shape, color, weight, size, etc. of your computer.Eh? Have you seen the monstrosities? Otherwise its a Dell black box or some beige rectangle. This is an insane comment. you want the greatest choice of third party software. - That old one. The only thing I've found not to be available on a Mac is Microsoft Access, and we're all the better off for that. you want lower prices on third party software. - Nonsense. Prices are the same across platforms. you want the greatest choice of third party peripherals. - Nonsense - USB is USB and this has not been an issue for 5 years. you want lower prices on third party peripherals. Nonsense. See above. you value the best future expandability of your computer. Uncontrollable laughing! Unless of course you want 3 internal CD drives... you want to be able to use 802.11a wireless technology. - I'm using it to write this... you want to be able to use 802.11g SRX/MIMO/Speedbooster/Super G wireless technology. No need. you want to have prompt take up of new technologies. Don't make me laugh - you still use floppy disks! you already have a large investment in training on a Windows PC. - Fair point, it takes a lot more training. you want firm "end of life" support dates set on your operating system. - Macs last longer - what is this about? you want to buy from a reasonably forthcoming company about their future product plans.- Who are they? The Microsoft who have been promising 'Longhorn' for the last few years? you want the greatest selection of games. - No, I'm a grown-up. you want the greatest choice for purchasing music online. - Have you heard of iTunes and the iTunes store? 80% market share! you want the greatest choice of compatible MP3 (and other digital file formats) players. - see above. you want the greatest choice for purchasing movies online. - See above you want to avoid the expense of too frequent and profound changes to the operating system and hardware that then require new purchases of up to date software and hardware to stay abreast of the latest changes. - This is nonsense. I still have a working 1986 Apple. Everything gets updated, though. Not like upgrading to Windows 2000 then? you would like to see lots of new functionality added to the operating system without paying for an all new OS every year (nine paid Mac OS upgrades in the last eight years '97-'05). - if you nicked Windows2000/ XP then Bill will be cross with you... you want the greatest selection of online and brick and mortar stores to do your shopping. - Umm, where? Ever been to an Apple store? you want the greatest selection for finding local service and support. - I had a logic board replaced in 3 days recently. you want the greatest selection for finding training. - very little training needed, but it's there. you want the greatest selection of training manuals and books. - don't make me laugh - Windoze for Summies? (Actually, that may be a misplaced question mark). you want the greatest selection of periodicals. - As in 'What PC'? Big selling point. you want a web browser that has the greatest compatibility with the greatest number of web sites. - and is losing market share by the day because people love it so much. you want the best performance for the amount of money spent. - daft comment - look at the performance of the DP G5s you want to have the best chance at getting "hand me down" parts and software when your friends, family, coworkers, and acquaintances upgrade (Macs have now had an approximate 2% market share for several years so that doesn't make for a very large pool of possible parts and software traders). - great selling point. Get your new PC from a skip? you want to build your computer from parts. - what a cool thing to do. Not. you want the fullest compatibility with DVD extra features. - again Apple free iDVD and DVD player software is industry standard. What is difficult on a Mac is stealing and copying other people's stuff. But then Steve Jobs is also in the movie business. you want the best integration with the greatest number of PDAs. - mine integrates fine. you want the best integration with the greatest number of mobile phones. - I use a phone for that - how about you? you want a tablet device (write on the screen and do input via the screen). - how useful is that? you want to integrate your computer with your XBOX. - again - very mature stuff. you want a media center experience integrated at the OS level. It is - you simply don't know what you are talking about. you want technology that scales beyond 2 processors. - I have 2 processors - who has 3? you want to buy a machine with one CPU today, and add a second CPU later when its needed or you can afford it. - is that possible with all PCs? you want dual core CPUs.- Funny that, I've had one for some time. Thanks for telling me I can't do it. you want a fully 64 bit OS. - Had that for a while, too. you want to be able to use high end workstation grade video cards (ATI FireGL/ Nvidia Quatro). - ditto you don't want to buy an expensive Mac and then have to turn right around and buy an add-on two button, scroll wheel mouse. - pathetic little comment. How many PC laptops have scrolling trackpads? once on a computing platform, you want to be able to upgrade your software at reduced upgrade prices (Apple does not have upgrade prices for its software like OS X and iLife). - Funny, my last iLife upgrades were free, but I did pay a discounted proce for 10.4 you live outside North America, Europe, or Japan (Mac solutions in the rest of the world are even rarer outside of those three places). - Eh? No Macs on Mars either. you value legacy support. - a meaningless comment, but simply not true. you want onsite repairs from your computer maker (most of Apple's support options require you to mail in your Mac or take it to an Apple Store). - I've had both, actually, but return to base can be quicker (see above). you want access to the larger pool of shareware software. - great. you want access to the larger pool of freeware software. - even greater. you want access to the larger pool of open source software. - Nonsense. Mac OS has a Unix base and therefore has a large open source poolo - in fact a lot of OS X IS open source, I believe. you want to burn CDs at a speed better than 24x (no Mac ships with a CD burner faster than 24x). - How old was the rag you got this from? Is a 16x DVD rewriter fast enough? you do not want to spend $1,999 to get a 16x DVD burner (the dual 2 GHz G5 tower is the cheapest Mac with 16x {a $379 PC that a friend got recently has a 16x Lite-On that also burns CDs at 48x}). - If you paid that to get a faster burner you'd be mad - but then perhaps it isn't the main feature of the machine. you want to be able to replace a motherboard that fails outside of warranty. - perhaps the only fair point in this farrago - but then there is a performance cost to using bog standard parts. you want to be able to inexpensively replace a CPU that fails outside of warranty (or in the case of the G5, replace it at all). - see above.Buy a Mac if... price is not a major concern for you. - seen the price of the Mac Mini? But I'm prepared to pay for quality anyway. you are employed in a Mac centric work environment (education, desktop publishing, graphic arts, sound production, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevehudson Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "You really need to try harder than this, Stevie."Obviously not DICK. By the way what's proce? And I am not familiar with the word commen. "Funny, my last iLife upgrades were free, but I did pay a discounted proce for 10.4""so would I - it's as dumb a commen as most of these."Looks like a spell check failure to me (that's the little dictionary icon in your word processor that corrects your spelling).iM off now to cook some iChips to go with my iFishiSteve (66) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Oh Steve, answer the questions or respond to the points, not the typos.And nice one, making fun of my name - mature, witty and totally rancid all in one.That's called irony, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "Don't be taken in by probably one of only two mac user on this forum with his we are better than you rhetoric, this is an exert from a comparison website, answer the questions and then make your mind up."So that means that Dick Smith and I are the only Macusers on the forum. I'm very happy with my little old Mac and when I decide to replace it I'll have another.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Macs are good machines as are many PC's and laptops. I would say try before you buy as has been sid there is a difference in the way it works. A lot of PC software can run on a Mac and I believe it's still the case that MS Office is available for the Mac.The only negative thing I noticed about the Mac against a PC which was shown on a consumer program on the TV a few months back was the possible problems of getting them repaired if they fail, I am talking harware not software. Macs have to go to a Mac dealer when in warranty and I suspect Macs come with a 3 year one. I don't know where my nearest Mac dealer is in France but I have three PC dealers within 5 miles of me. Parts are not available so easily for a Mac as they are for a PC. PC stuff is easy to get your hands on even in France. Not having a Mac I don't have first hand experience but the program did indicate that in the case of say a motherboard failure you can wait a while for a replacement.Like buying any electronic equipment I would research it well and as I said try before you buy (both PC and Mac). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I can't speak for France, Chris, but I recently had something (probably a power spike) damage the logic boards on both my desktop and laptop machines. Both were replaced within 3 days - although that was with me taking in and collecting them. One was under warranty and one wasn't, and it was expensive, but it is a fairly advanced and expensive machine. No data loss in either case, so no real harm done.As for Office, because Microsoft 'leapfrogs' developments across the two platforms the Mac version is the 'latest' one, with a large number of improvements over the PC version, which will get them in the next release. Notable are the Project Center and a great deal of application integration. Word is still a bloated monster, though, and styles are still a pain. The only missing item is Access, but I use Filemaker (also transparent to PC) which is far, far better.If you need to use PC software it can run in emulation using Virtual PC. When Apple go over to Intel processors that may all be a lot easier anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 "I'm very happy with my little old Mac"What more can I say...Actually I've got an old Mac Classic (1984 style) somewhere - works perfectly but runs a little slow by today's standards. At 25Mhz it was the fastest machine available when it came out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 "Both were replaced within 3 days - although that was with me taking in and collecting them"Thats my point, I couldn't wait 3 days. My Compag had a CD RW problem, the drive was replaced in one hour which included me taking it to a local dealer, I couldn't wait for next day on-site repair. My Toshiba laptop blew it's power supply and I had to go to Carcassonne. The drive to Carcassonne and back took longer than replacing the power supply.Macs are not more complicated technically than any other piece of electronics, they are just different. I won't belittle the Mac because it has it's place and is a prefered machine with media companies for design work although most of the software is now available for the PC.At the end of the day it's down to personal preferances when deciding to buy a Mac or PC but the one thing I have noticed about Mac users is that they are very loyal to their brand especially those that have had them for many years. The biggest problem is that both PC users and Mac users are seldom fully aware of the advancements in the 'other' operating system. A friend of mine is a Mac user and has been for many years and is always knocking PC's and Windows. He has just bought a IPod and was saying how good it was and that it used the internet to find the names of songs etc so they came up on his IPod screen well MS Media player does the same thing. The IPod is not compatable with MS Media player or any other MS based product so you have to use the IPod software to rip and transfer music. The only problem with this is that you can only use it on one machine. If you go to a friends and use your software to copy some of their CD's it has to create a new library and then to download the music you have to delete everything on the IPod to do so because it came from a different library on a diffrent machine, crazy idea.The original poster implied he was having problems with his PC and that was why he was looking to change. The first thing he should do before making any change is to ensure his PC operating system is up to date and has all the lattest patches installed, this goes for Macs as well. Likewise he should have a good known brand of AV software installed. Viruses are not such a big issue with Macs at present but as Dick said they will be moving to Intel proccessors in the near future which will open them up to virus attacks and the other nasties associated with PC's.Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I think that's all very sensible, Chris, but the virus-proofing of the Mac is down to the operating system, not the chip architecture. MS is just sloppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 [quote]"Don't be taken in by probably one of only two mac user on this forum with his we are better than you rhetoric, this is an exert from a comparison website, answer the questions and then make your mind...[/quote]I'll stand up to join ranks with Dick and Hoddy, make that 3 Mac users here I use both Windows and a Mac, I have learned to tolerate XP, but I love my Mac, it's a simple as that. They do inspire loyalty. When I worked in software development in the UK, we developed for both Microsoft and Mac operating systems (in fact, one of our customers was Apple). During the QA test phase of a project it was always Windows that threw up the most bugs. An awful lot of "serious" software developers have a major dislike for Windows operating systems. Ask them what they use at home, and it's likely to be a UNIX based system, or a Mac, or both!Having said that, for Windows users, a Mac can take a bit of getting used to, it's more intuitive, but you have to "un-learn" Windows first.And Dick is quite right to pour scorn on Microsoft for being so virus-friendly, never had a virus on the Mac, wish I could say the same for Windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Whoops - Nemesis follows Hubris posted text below twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 On the rare occasions I use anything designed by Apple I am almost always pleasantly surprised by how relatively easy it is to drive compared to compared to the latest changes to 'Windows' . For those who have no desire to find out what goes on under the bonnet (aka Hood) they do the job. The price premium versus performance is now much smaller in both absolute and relative terms than 10 years ago.I agree with most of the tick list for sticking various forms of Windows but would ask how relevant must of them are to an average user these days.What is proving such a pain about XP ?Just before I am accused of being a Mac zealot all the PCs in the house run either various shades of Windows bar one Linux machine. Also if ideograms / GUIs were such a good idea why am I not writing this in Chinese ?The oldest machine has a couple of parts which date back to an 80186 ( yes they did exist ) but a the cost of hardware continues to fall it becomes less and less attractive to salvage parts when you are up grading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 "So that means that Dick Smith and I are the only Macusers on the forum."No, it means that the rest of us don't feel we have to either rubbish those using a different system from ours or justify our own choice. Although I don't have a Mac at present, as I work in magazine publishing I have plenty of Mac experience and would happily have one again if I decided it suited my needs.I am sure that if Macs were more widely used than PCs then the sad virus compilers would concentrate on Mac rather than Windows systems.Another thing that nobody has mentioned is that a lot of the features of this forum are not available to Mac users. Though I know that's the fault of the forum software rather than Apple.To the original questioner, if you don't like Windows XP for whatever reason then a Mac could be an excellent alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 [quote]I think that's all very sensible, Chris, but the virus-proofing of the Mac is down to the operating system, not the chip architecture. MS is just sloppy![/quote]Sorry Dick but a lot of viruses are in machine code now and as Intel is the biggest producer than any other CPU manufacturer most of these type of viruses are aimed and the Intel chips. The Mac as you know does not use a major manufacturers CPU, it uses some obscure Motorola chip or something simular that basically hackers and virus creaters just can't be bothered to write for. Of course going to a Intel chip does mean that you can run Windows XP with no emulation on a Mac which in some ways defeats the reason for having one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Chris - this is rather muddled and could be confusing. The 'obscure' company behind the Mac CPU is IBM...There is no guarantee that Windows will run on a Mac-Intel chip. As far as I am aware there is no commercial implementation yet. It looks unlikely that there will be a simple crossover as to do that would give away product advantage.The Unix kernel of the Mac OS simply does not have the security holes that Windows does, and Apple haven't p****d as many people off as Microsoft has...It's a lot like choice of cars. Most people are happy with Fords, but some want BMWs (which have about the same market share as Macs). Others buy Skodas and tell everyone around them how good they are, honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Flora,you shouldn,t be exasperated by Windows XP - it's really a very good operating system.Perhaps your pc is not set up well and a workover by a competent engineer should produce a rich and varied platform that is virtually trouble free.One of the keys to a really enjoyable and user friendly computer is to do regular 'housekeeping' such as clearing your internet cache, obtaining updates asap for the o/s, anti-virus programme and any anti-spyware programmes, defragging etc.Think of your computer like a house full of rooms - it contains clutter and dust and needs regular cleaning.I'm slightly biased as I'm a Microsoft (and Cisco and CompTIA) trained engineer but if you are just an average 'recreational' computer user I'd go with a pc. - If you are into serious graphics (CAD) then go for a mac.The macs look nice - the pc's offer oodles of easily accessable stuff , much of it free, and are just what the average user needs.The mac guys tend to think they are 'serious' about computing - the pc guys tend to just get on with it !Don't take any notice of the people who think it's clever to use derogatory words like 'windoze' or the like - it's a form of computer snobbery, it's very unprofessional and as such it is extremely crass !!Most people don't want to be an expert - they just want to surf the net, get e-mails etc. A pc does all this (so does a mac) but the pc offers a far greater choice.Alfa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 << a lot of viruses are in machine code now and as Intel is the biggest producer than any other CPU manufacturer most of these type of viruses are aimed and the Intel chips. The Mac as you know does not use a major manufacturers CPU, it uses some obscure Motorola chip or something simular that basically hackers and virus creaters just can't be bothered to write for. Of course going to a Intel chip does mean that you can run Windows XP with no emulation on a Mac which in some ways defeats the reason for having one. >>is the biggest producer than any - simular - creaters - With syntax like that at least I can sleep at night secure in the knowledge that you are unlikely to write anything succesfully in machine code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 For the original poster - my husband uses a Mac, (graphics industry) I use a PC. Sometimes, in emergencies I use his Mac but I find it completely different, you would have to re-learn everything - do you really want to ?Also he is occasionally sent files that he cannot open, even with one of those Windows 'converter' type progs - this can be a real nuisance.Why not get someone to see if they can sort out your XP first, it must be cheaper than a new Mac ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted July 1, 2005 Author Share Posted July 1, 2005 Hello again,thanks so much for all your input.I use my computer for our gite business ( website, all enquiries and bookings), general e-mails and, with our numeric camera and for leisure surfing or 'drifting' as my husband calls it which includes this forum of course!I get exasperated as it is always crashing ( problems identified variously as being caused by windows, aol and norton) although at least it goes faster with adsl now and I often get that blue screen of death.Last week it came up and says there is an ' erreur irrevocable'. Now it won't work at all and keeps on starting up, that message flashes on for a second and then the thing stops and restarts itself continuously.I know I should be cleaning out regularly, defragmenting ( whatever that is?) etc etc but I'm afraid that I am not at all technical and don't have much spare time either as I work as well, so I have to rely on the goodwill of my sons to come to my rescue. As someone said I am not very interested in what goes on under the bonnet , I just need the thing to work! I'm writing this on son's laptop now as he is still in bed , being only 21 and having finished fac for the summer! He reloaded the master cd for me last week when it was already misbehaing and had lost loads of e-mails, but now can't even do that because of the continual turning on and off.I know I'll have to take it somewhere to see if it can be repaired ( it is a laptop so that's not difficult) but as it is 3 yrs old I thought it might not be good economics and that perhaps I should change to a simple trouble and virus free MAC! I've looked at the apple. fr site and the mac mini does look interesting esp if I got a TFT screen in the sales elsewhere. It is the idea of having something that won't go wrong that temps me most.It would be better if I didn't have to splash out though really of course so if I am to go for the sensible course of action does anyone have any repairer to recommend (french or english) around depts 16 or 17?I thought if I could get it repaired for a reasonable price then I could pass it on to my younger daughter and get something else anyway later.... ?. Florawww.logis-la-cabane.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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