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maidofallwork
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Here's something about the restaurant business. As it happens, the people who used to run the one in our village sold it on a couple of years ago, to another couple who happen to be French (him, the chef) and English (her, front of house). She speaks perfect French, he cooks very nice food.

The previous incumbents were miserable gits who had previously run a seasonal catering business on the coast. No need, they felt, to be nice to customers, as they changed every couple of weeks anyway. It didn't work out for them in a village with a more regular clientele.

The new people have changed a lot, but above all the ambiance. Their food is a bit pricy, though, and helpings too small for the local working folk who want a decent portion of food to see them through their afternoon's work. Nonetheless, they have been doing OK. Till this year...a quiet June, a Quieter July, and a bit of a lift in August. Talking to la patronne the other day, she said (and it's true) that there's double parking at lunchtime outside McDonalds, families (French ones) are buying a kids' meal between two kids and asking for an extra plate, they're buying waffles and sharing them between 4 people......So even in the restaurant trade, France (seasonal, holiday resort France, at least) isn't exactly in its most buoyant phase.

None of this is said to dash your hope or spoil your plans, by the way. I reiterate, 10 years ago you would have been reading on whilst the more negative sounding posters were pilloried and the majority of posts would be saying "follow your dream" and "I've done it, so you certainly can" and "the streets are paved with gold/there is simply no crime/all french people are lovely/you can buy a fortnight's shopping for 50p". You will note, now, the absence of many of those people.

Nobody here is saying don't move to France. Nowadays, however, everyone is saying that if you want do do it, do your research. Lots of it.

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[quote user="maidofallwork"]Again thank you all for your comments and replies, please dont think I was being icky in any way. that was not my intention, your replies  and honesty are really appreciated. The EU has a lot of answer for (at least the information you are given) in that we are all supposd to be one happy family (that I have never believed as we are so many different cultures) and you dont realise that the benefit system is not as easy as in the UK.

You have all given us much to think about, incidentally our friends are in the restaurant business.

M o a W

[/quote]

The French Embassy in London has a good web site and lots of info ( at least last time I looked ) about moving to France.

Other stuff about everyday living is on the general information french gov web site:-

http://www.service-public.fr/

In fact most things can be found via the internet.

Awful, no France isn't awful, it is just a country, with it's own rules and ways of looking at things, some easy to come to terms with, others not.

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Our ex lodger, a young man with "big ideas" left, then a year later came back to the village and has taken over the ex ferme auberge. He and another chap, both under 30, smokers, run this affair. Brits in the village running a chambre d'hote have sent people down there as its walking distance. Although advertised as being open, people have rung and been told that they are shut! They hang around if you linger at the end of the meal, turned down a neighbours 60th party as it was too much work (40 people). There is the demand for their service, but their interpersonal skills seem to be actively working against building up the business. Weird or what.
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I could make a very long list of what I like about France and why I live here, but 'because it's easy to run a small business' would not be anywhere on the list.

Saying that business taxes are high in France is simply stating a well-known fact, You need to be aware of it - and then, you can decide for yourself how important that fact is to you, and whether or not it's a reason not to move here.

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I get the impression from the OP that there might be a misperception that benefits are standardised throughout the EU, when the reality is that they differ from country to country. Also that because it appears other EU citizens can seemingly arrive in the UK and automatically be entitled to benefits that the same must apply in the opposite direction, when nothing could be further from the truth.

As retirees moving to France from the UK they should be entitled to health care as the cost will be met by the UK under the reciprocal S1 arrangement, but their adult daughters will be looking at the need for private health insurance unless they can find employment and will not have access to other French benefits unless they have a sufficient history of paying in to the French system and even then the qualifying criteria seems to be much more stringent than the UK.

However, all this pales into insignificance compared to the elephant in the room and that is that unless the daughters become reasonably fluent in spoken and written French, then the odds of them being able to successfully establish and run a French business with the accompanying bureaucracy, are stacked against them. 

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Here is an example of strict things have become here. Since OH died and who was the sole breadwinner, I am an accepted allocataire of the RSA and other benefits through his heavy cotisations for 18years, in fact the pension de reversion I also get cannot be granted to people who have not paid in for less than 15 years minimum first! I received a letter from the Conseil Generale last week who always have the final say in awarding benefits here to applicants via the CAF etc to say I must attend a rdv with my assistante sociale (which was yesterday) to go through my dossier and re-apply for the next 12months otherwise my benefits will be stopped from September if I DO NOT attend. I did go and again a new dossier which applies to all applicants was drawn up and again questions about looking for work and attending interviews although they accept at my age with no recognised french qualifications it will not be possible (I already have a seasonal job for the past 12 years so they accept that) but the AS said now the authorities are getting stricter and stricter on paying benefits and people are now being made to help themselves where possible,to find work etc.

Now I may be wrong not having lived in the UK for many many years but it seems over there, you get money paid toyou for just about anything you can claim for without having to be under the scrutiny of the authorities and a lot of money too,whereas here only the very least they have to pay out is what you receive. As with everything,your history is looked at,your family circumstances and whether you own your property or rent is taken into account and logged so they can see you havn't just crossed the channel and are looking for handouts. My own circumstances may be different to others who get benefits and their allocation rules but this is my experience to show the OP as an example because for her and her husband they will be OK depending on their financial income but it's the two daughters who worry me because they maybe rejected for any assistance at all for their health issues due to their ages and not having any history here. As said plenty of investigation before you make definate moving plans especially for the daughters and they,if not already have started, will need plenty of french language tuition to fit in and deal with business matters like their tax returns as when they reach 25 they have to submit their own.

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Rabbie wrote:

"I think wtc is Working Tax Credit. This is a top-up benefit given to those doing some work but who are not receiving much in pay. I believe it is not exportable."

So if you're self employed in the UK and you don't earn much, the government lets you keep what you earn AND gives you some more on top?? I want some of that! Is it a new thing? They didn't used to do that when I lived there, or at least if they did, nobody told me :(
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[quote user="EuroTrash"]Rabbie wrote:

"I think wtc is Working Tax Credit. This is a top-up benefit given to those doing some work but who are not receiving much in pay. I believe it is not exportable."

So if you're self employed in the UK and you don't earn much, the government lets you keep what you earn AND gives you some more on top?? I want some of that! Is it a new thing? They didn't used to do that when I lived there, or at least if they did, nobody told me :([/quote] This link gives you more info about this.

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For the record, DLA is gradually being replaced by the Personal Independence Payment, for which the eligibility criteria are very much more stringent. By 2015 all claimants will be on PIP and i don't know whether it will be exportable like DLA.
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Disability Living Allowance is given to people with a disability (not necessarily physical) who work but because of their illness cannot work full time, our daughter who is in receipt of this has epilepsy and has had since she was 3 she is now 31 and has only just in the last 3 years being able to claim it, thanks to a very considerate consultant, anyone who knows anything about epilepsy will understand that after having had a bd attack the person is virtually useless for at least 24 hours and more sometimes, limbs do not function correctly sometimes until the effects  wear off, medication partially controls it but not 100%.  She is basically a musician but cannot work as she never knows if she will be well at the moment enough to fulfill a contract so she is a jeweller working at home.  Our other daughter who is 27 works her socks off ,she is a textile designer and works with children after school also to earn an income, she gets working tax credit which is legitimately available to all who work 30 hours a week or more and have a low income. We are retired with a private pension also which the giverment taxes quite well here,  So no-one is scrounging, my OH and I worked hard  and paid taxes all our lives until retiring..  We had no real means of knowing what the system is in France and are grateful for all the information as according to the EU blurb one  assumes reciprocal bnefits apply., obviously not so

However, thanks once again for all the info and help

M o a W

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 moaw, when you say retired with a private pension, do you mean that you are also in receipt of a state pension. IF not, then that changes quite a few things depending on when you are due to get your state pension.

Re your daughter's WTC, well, the working tax credit is not transferable to France. I'm surprised that you mentioned it really as it is an amount to help out, but if she starts earning more, or does less hours, then it stops at some point.

Your elder daughter's situation with the current changes to DLA, mean that it is something that she cannot depend upon getting in the future. However, it may mean that for the time being she could get an S1 to cover her health care in France, but she would still need top up health insurance. She may eventually be able to get the epilepsy covered in France, but 100% from the state only relates to the actual illness itself.

Curious, as to which country's benefits system, we should all have? There are many countries in the EU and every country has something different. And which tax system should we all have to pay for it all???

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Hi - sorry if my post sounded as if I was accusing you of scrounging, far from it. That's what social security is supposed to be all about, giving security to people who happen to need it for whatever reason. My gripe is not with the theory but in the way the system is set up, firstly, that a lot of people who need help don't get it, and secondly, I read the article about WTC and it sounded horrendously complicated and also flawed, it sounded a bit as if the UK government is using taxpayers money because employers employ people for 30 hours a week and don't pay them enough to live on, can't be right surely, but perhaps I have misunderstood, and at least there is some safety net in place.
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Euro, If you are on the UK minimum wage it is hard to make ends meet if you are working 40 hours/week. So if you only work 30 hours then you probably don't have enough to live on. WTC at least doesn't stop people from helping themselves and taking work  rather than just sitting at home living on benefits. The hope is they will progress to better paid work and come off the benefit.

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OK, but if working 40 hours a week on minimum wage isn't enough for the average person to live on and with a bit to spare, it kind of suggest to me that the minimum wage is set too low? Surely the point of setting a minimum wage is so that people do earn a living wage without working all the hours under the sun?
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I didn't say that 40 hours on minimum wage isn't enough. I said it was difficult but that would depend on your transport and housing costs. It also depends on how many dependents you have.

I agree it would be better if the minimum wage were higher but it might lead to a reduction in those being employed in these economic times.

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[quote user="EuroTrash"]OK, but if working 40 hours a week on minimum wage isn't enough for the average person to live on and with a bit to spare, it kind of suggest to me that the minimum wage is set too low? Surely the point of setting a minimum wage is so that people do earn a living wage without working all the hours under the sun?[/quote]

That would be picking up just over £200 a week after stoppages. Rents, well around here for a two bed place are about £450+ a month. Heating and electricity, around £90 a month. Council tax say £100 a month for 10 months plus water. Plus tv licence, because I believe that that is a minimum these days. And no mention of the costs of transport for work. . Frankly it is hard to live on such a small amount and very few jobs have 40 hour weeks, it is usual for jobs to have 37.5 hours a week around here.

That someone would get some government help when earning so little seems like a very good thing to me, rather that than 'just' benefit.

When we got to France, the system for helping those in work was good. The CAF helped towards rents and all sorts of stuff and I thought it excellent. Took me a while to work out what happened to those not in work as the safety net is quite recent, so if a person was not working then they were right in the caca. The unemployment benefit didn't last long, health care didn't last long either. I know that we had Croix Rouge medical centres in local cities and they may still exist, that I don't know. How people lived then, well I dread to think, I do know that good old Coluche did a great thing when he started the Restos du Coeur.

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Euro didnt think you meant we were scroungers, I was just trying to point out that low pay work is helped, our daughters couldnt live without the extra they get, I dread to think if our daughter ceases to get DLA what she would live on,,,,, and our other daughter works making her garments and also as said does art classes with children twice a week, if she didnt have that she couldnt survive long, and yes we do have state pensions but the goverment recently took away the age allowance so everyone who has over £10,000 pa starts to pay tax at 20% over that.  We dont starve far from it but things like the MOT put a huge strain on finance to find, its the extras that make life difficult.  My other half paid a private pension all his working life thinking we would be ok but every time he gets an increase all of it goes in tax. I am so sorry for people with children I dont know how they manage.  It is really surprising how different other countries systems are.  The    mimimum wage was brought in but it is not enough for many people who are on that to manage without top up.  Thre are scroungers here and the trouble is if you stop their benefits they go onto crime because that is all they have known, there are families here who have not worked for 3 generations, its the system that fails not the idea

It sounds a good system in france to not pay out ad lib, but only if there is work and good wages available.

m o a w

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moaw. I am starting to think that you would find life very hard in France, if you find paying for basics like an MOT difficult. For example, we find car servicing far cheaper in England than in France, but we do live in the north of England.

Really, a long winter holiday is called for, rent a gite or something where ever you fancy for a month or so and get a feel for the place. Heating bills could come as a shock as much of France can be horribly cold in winter. Food is not cheap, clothes and shoes are not cheap either. I looked in  Decathlon, SuperU and Carrefour when I was back a few months ago and was shocked by the prices of clothes and I used to buy regularly from all three.

I don't know what your french friends have actually been telling you, but they seem out of touch from what you have told us, or they are quite well off and I imagine that the world looks rather different with a good bank balance.

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[quote user="maidofallwork"]only if there is work and good wages available.

[/quote]

Ha, ha - that's why so many well qualified young French and Spanish people go to the UK - because they've got so much better prospects than they'd have in their home countries.

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Unemployment is far higher in France than in the UK currently.Good wages have to be earned over a long time because in many trades/businesses they are fixed by the state according to your "niveau" (level of experience and written qualifications which are the be all and end all here to work).Most of the working population earn little more than the basic SMIC wage which is why there are benefits available but inFrance ALL benefits for whatever you apply for are means tested first with declarations every three months to keep your dossier updated in many cases.

My own daughter who was french educated and has a french degree had to find work in the UK and now has a very good life there with a salary double that of her peers here in the same business and she has a better social and private life too, something your daughters need to think about because they need new friends and if they cannot communicate, it will be frustrating for them.

You may think there are many bitter and whingeing brits living here in France, there are and they should never have come here in the first place but until you live here out of a holiday mode, you have absolutely no idea what you may be letting yourselves in for and possibly for the duration.Personally this is the longest I have ever lived in one place apart from just before I got married and was still at home, surely that says I have worked at making a life here just like many others on this and other forums who will never return to live in the UK. As you rent in the UK, you have nothing to lose from doing the same for a year or so here to find your feet and if not to your taste, then you can go back far easier than people who have to sell first to fund another home to live in.

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