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If I get a dish etc set up with digi box,but do not subscribe [from a UK address naturally!], will the card from my UK based digibox work in France if I take it with me each time I go ? I hope that makes sense, ie I would prefer not to pay for two subscriptions!

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in other words you will have two boxes,  one in UK,  one in France,  with a commuting card.

It should work on MOST channels but probably not all.   Sky have the facility to pair cards and boxes on a one to one basis,  but they don't always use it for all channels.   The last time they did was during the card swap back in about 2004.   At that time the wrong card in the box produced a message to that effect and no picture.

At the moment it's much more relaxed.   We have two Sky boxes,  in different rooms,  and regularly swap our FTV Solus card and our sub card round to suit our movements,  however that's only the basic package.   I'm not sure Cinema/Sports/PPV would work (esp PPV as the French box can't phone Sky)

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If you install a dish pointing towards Astra 2D then you can receive all the transmissions from Sky with a digibox.  Depending on where your home is in France, and to some extent which make of digibox you are using, you may be able to use a standard 45cm minidish or you may need an 80cm dish (readily available in French brico stores).

If you bring over a Sky digibox from the UK then you will be able to receive

without a viewing card:

most of the standard free channels except Ch 4 & 5  - although these may become freely available sometime in 2008.

with a viewing card:

(this can be your card from home or you can buy a freesat card from Sky for a £20 one off fee - NB still needs to be registered to your UK address)

all the free channels including Ch 4 & 5  - this includes the new ch5 extra channels and Film4 but not E4, More 4 etc.

You won't be able to watch your premium subscription channels unless you bring your digibox from home as your viewing card is paired with the digibox and will block the premium channels if the card is used in a different digibox.

If you are planning on spending a lot of time in France, and don't want the hassle of taking your digibox back and forth but still want to watch the premium channels then you can get a second card from Sky which can be paired toa different digibox. They will charge you £10 per month for this service but it will then give you all the same premium channels as you get at home.

Strictly speaking, it is against Skys terms and conditions to use a viewing card at an address other than the one to which it is registered and there are potential copyright issues of viewing Sky signals outside the UK. In truth however, so many people do it and I don't think there has ever been a case of anyone being prosecuted. Sky don't seem to really care (they know it goes on) as long as you don't tell them what you are doing. If you do tell them - or make the mistake of phonong them from France to activate a card - then they will simply zap your card remotely and disable it.

I hope this helps.

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QUOTE:   If you are planning on spending a lot of time in France, and don't want the hassle of taking your digibox back and forth but still want to watch the premium channels then you can get a second card from Sky which can be paired toa different digibox. They will charge you £10 per month for this service but it will then give you all the same premium channels as you get at home.

Reply:   I thought that this was one area that Sky DID regularly check on,  ie that BOTH boxes under this arrangement are connected to the same UK telephone number.   I don't have the service so can't say for certain,  but I would be careful here.   Otherwise it would be easy to get a sub for a nieghbour on this basis (ie if Sky didn't check regularly).

QUOTE:  Strictly speaking, it is against Skys terms and conditions to use a viewing card at an address other than the one to which it is registered and there are potential copyright issues of viewing Sky signals outside the UK. In truth however, so many people do it and I don't think there has ever been a case of anyone being prosecuted

Reply:   I think one is infringing  the conditions of a contract rather than laying oneself open to prosecution.  . I take the view that if one's paid for a service is makes no difference where one uses it,  but I'm sure a lawyer would not agree.
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[quote user="Martinwatkins"]

Reply:   I think one is infringing  the conditions of a contract rather than laying oneself open to prosecution.  . I take the view that if one's paid for a service is makes no difference where one uses it,  but I'm sure a lawyer would not agree.[/quote]

Oh this subject is such a can of worms and I must say is only worth mentioning from the point of view of making interesting discussion because - as I said before - I don't think anyone is particularly bothered about it.

Theoretically however, there are two issues. The first, as you rightly point out, is contractual which is to do with the contract which exists between Sky and the person to whom the card is issued. The Sky T&Cs specifically state that the card may only be used by the person to whom it was issued and at the address where it is issued to etc. etc.  Being in breach of contract, one assumes, (hopefully Llewyncelyn wiill read this and give us the benefit of his legal knowledge) could be treated as a civil matter for litigation.  The other area of copyright / broadcasting rights is far more tricky. Take, for example, Formula 1, which is tied to tight, highly priced contract for broadcast rights in each country. The company with the rights in France might take a dim view of finding that people can watch it for free on UK ITV as might Bernie.  Stricly speaking, you might be breaking the law (French criminal law) by watching certain programs in France in the same way as you are infringing copyright by downloading certain music tracks from the internet.   Anyway, this is all hypothetical (I hope) as I am not aware of any attempt by any body to take action to prevent people from watching UK television in France.  On the contrary, the French system seems quite happy to allow businesses to register (and pay taxes and cotisations) whose sole purpose is to install Sky TV systems all over France so there doesn't seem to be too much to worry about.

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Absolutely agreed on all points.

However I do rather enjoy watching things in the "wrong" country (often French TV in the UK) 'cos it gives me pleasure to be a fly in the ointment of the untold riches that these people seem to be amassing to themselves!

And until the TV operators themselves stop breaking EU law (it should apparently under the freedom of movement of goods and services legislation be possible to apply for a Sky sub in France and a Canal + sub in the UK without hindrance) I think there's a lot to be said for us playing them at their own game.

But as you say,  it's all really academic!

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[quote user="Martinwatkins"]
  Stricly speaking, you might be breaking the law (French criminal law) by watching certain programs in France in the same way as you are infringing copyright by downloading certain music tracks from the internet.  
[/quote]

Just as a point of discussion but is it breaking any law by watching certain programs in different countries?  I would have thought that it would come under the EU 'no impediment to movement of goods and services' rule which definitely includes broadcast material so if you have the kit and legitimately have the necessary decode card or whatever, nobody can stop you receiving any channel available to you no matter which EU country you are physically located in

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Actually Pierre I was going to ask you what you thought about something,  and have been meaning to pose the question for a while since you're an expert on computers

I've been interested in radio all my life (and involved in it for a bit at the BBC) and throughout that time it's been the case that if it ain't encrypted one way or another then it's fair game to listen to it.   Even listening to the police two way radios on 98 - 102 MHz Band II in the UK was never as far as I know pursued by the authorities.

So I was amused - in light of your story a few months back about getting into a Wifi network at a supermarket - to read the report about a woman who was formally cautioned by the police for logging into a domestic Wifi network at 3.00 in the morning from a parked car.   I must be going senile,  but I can't see she was breaking any law if the idiots who set the newtork up didn't password protect it.  

The older I get the more "offences" seem to be appearing from nowhere which - however hard I try - I cannot categorise as breaking the law "in my book".  Such as viewing TV in the wrong country (particularly as I pay the BBC licence fee at home!)

Must be me - what do you think?

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[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]

I would have thought that it would come under the EU 'no impediment to movement of goods and services' rule which definitely includes broadcast material

[/quote]

That's a very interesting point Pierre and just goes to show what a huge can of worms the whole subject is. I guess that's why there haven't been any challenges to what people are doing in case it all backfires and EU law determines that people living in any EU country have the right to apply for a sat contract with any EU provider.  That would lead to a lot of very influential people losing a lot of money.  I suppose the problem is that most of the broadcast rights / copyright laws were drawn up before satelite broadcasts became so widespread. Encryption, of course, goes part of the way to solve the problem but with Mr. Murdoch charging so much for this service the broadcasters have understandably given up on it until such time as anyone challenges their responsibilities. In the end it may lead to much higher broadcast copyright fees for open satelite transmissions which will inevitably mean that Mr. Murdoch will tie up more and more of the good stuff !  On the other hand it might eventually send more things onto internet broadcast only where it is much easier to determine the country in which the viewer is attempting to download from.  I can see it now, in a few years time it will only be possible to watch F1 on the internet direct from the F1 website - cuts out all the middle men and means more money in Bernies pocket !!

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  • 1 month later...

[quote user="Eslier"]you can buy a freesat card from Sky for a £20 one off fee[/quote]

I'm a bit confused because I've just looked up Freesat and it appears to be £150 (this from http://www.freesatfromsky.com). Where can I find it for £20?

We've just had a satellite dish installed, it is pointing at Astra 2D and we have the BBC channels, but I would quite like ITV, C4 and Five too. We live in the UK and have a full Sky package at home, but the France house is let out as a gite and I would like to provide the extra channels for our guests.

Thanks! 

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[quote user="CatherineS2"]

[quote user="Eslier"]you can buy a freesat card from Sky for a £20 one off fee[/quote]

I'm a bit confused because I've just looked up Freesat and it appears to be £150 (this from http://www.freesatfromsky.com). Where can I find it for £20?

We've just had a satellite dish installed, it is pointing at Astra

2D and we have the BBC channels, but I would quite like ITV, C4 and

Five too. We live in the UK and have a full Sky package at home, but

the France house is let out as a gite and I would like to provide the

extra channels for our guests.

Thanks! 

[/quote]

That's for a UK installation, complete with all the kit.

p

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...well you SHOULD have ITV already.  I'm assuming you don't have a sky box in France,  so you may need to do a scan for the ITV channels.   ITV is fre to air in exactly the same way as the BBC.

To get ch 4 & 5 you need - at least at the moment - a sky digibox.   As you already have a card you cuold buy another box (ebay or brand new) and you would be likely to be able to swap the cards between the two boxes and get most of the channels on the "wrong" box.   However it's not guaranteed!

However,  it does seem possible (although by no means certain) that ch 4 will quit encryption in the next couple of years so it probably isn't worth it.

Sorry if I've told you what you know already;  if you can't find the ITV channels then post again and I or someone will try and give you details..  

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I have always believed that it is not any kind of offence and no law is being broken if you watch a UK broadcast by satellite in France. Because of copyright and territorial broadcast rights it is up to the broadcaster to try to prevent you from watching his programmes in France - not for you to prevent yourself from doing so.

In a year or so FreeSat should be in operation. This is a joint BBC/ITV venture to provide a satellite service modelled on Freeview, probably from Astra 2D, using satellite receivers bought from your local supermarket. The channels available will include the Sky FTA channels. Viewers will be untraceable.

 

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I have a recently-installed satellite decoder in my French holiday home; as standard, it doesn't provide channels 4 and 5. I've bought the £20 card, registered to my UK address, and next time I go to the house I'll take it down there and install it. Thing is, the menus etc on the satellite system are in French, and while I understand the basics I don't know whether I could follow the on-screen displays. Could anyone here please offer me an idiot-proof guide to how I can activate the card in the decoder?
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I'm a bit worried about the French menus you mention here,  becuause this suggests that what you have is NOT a Skybox.   The Ch 4 Ch 5 card will only work in a Skybox,  because Sky do not commercialise their encryption system to other manufacturers.

I may be missing something here but is your box a Skybox?   If so you should have English language menus...

If it's not a Skybox you should be able to switch the menus to English in the basic setup menus,   but in this  case the free-to-view card will not work...

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From what you appear to be saying, you have installed non Sky decoder in France. In order for your recently acquired card to work in France you will have to use it in a Sky digibox and therefore if you are not using a Sky box then activating the card will not be possible and no use to your installation.

Baz

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Not sure if anyone can help me with my problem re: sky but here goes . I have been a Sky subscriber for 15 years or more and have dish, box and viewing card. I would like to bring all of these to France with me when I move permanently in September this year. My main problems are that I don't know of anyone in my circle of friends/family who would let me use their address as they all have Sky anyway. The other problem is that my internet connection is also with Sky.com and as I have only had this for 6 months, I cannot cancel it till the 12 months contract expires in December 2007. Help please!!

roseysan

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I wondered this. It doesn't say Sky on it, and the menus are definitely in French, but yet it receives BBC1, 2, 3 and 4 and the same for ITV, plus I think BBC News 24, Sky News or CNN. Is there any chance that once the Sky card is installed it will also give me Channels 4 and 5, maybe even More4, E4, Film 4?
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[quote user="Pierre ZFP"]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]
  Stricly speaking, you might be breaking the law (French criminal law) by watching certain programs in France in the same way as you are infringing copyright by downloading certain music tracks from the internet.  
[/quote]

Just as a point of discussion but is it breaking any law by watching certain programs in different countries?  I would have thought that it would come under the EU 'no impediment to movement of goods and services' rule which definitely includes broadcast material so if you have the kit and legitimately have the necessary decode card or whatever, nobody can stop you receiving any channel available to you no matter which EU country you are physically located in

[/quote]

Martin

I doubt you would be breaking copyright - the position might be different for the broadcaster.  It only become a breach of copyright ( as I understand it) if you then further distribute the materials - but maybe I am wrong on that one.

 

Pierre,

the EU has recently looked into this and decided to take no action.  I think they recognise that there is a problem, but the difficulty for them is that there are two (in this case contradictory) regulations.

The Program owners (usually large US motion picture companies, or sports bodies) sell the right to broadcast on a sole distributorship basis.  This means they sell the same programs to Sky (for broadcast to the UK and Eire), to Premier (for broadcast to Germany), to canal+ (for France) etc.    Sole distributorship based on countries is all legal and above board and allowed under EU rules.  It does however conflict with the free movement of people and services in this case - since each company transmits in their own language.

 

Sky know full well that their braodacts are being received outside their distributorship region (they could hardly not know) and probably don't give a damn since it boosts their subscription numbers.  More importantly they also know that from time to time the big US Distributors check up on them, so if they find out (due to you contacting them directly from abroad for example) that the machine is not in the UK/Eire, they will disable the card - because they cannot tell if it is one of the checks being made to ensure they stick to the distributorship agreement.

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@ markbishop

If it doesn't say Sky on on the box then it won't get Ch 4 or ch5 - pointe finale.   It is entirely natural that your present box gets the BBC & ITV;   they becamse free to air several years ago (having originally been in the same boat as ch 4 & ch 5) and can be viewed on any digital box.

Ch 4 may go free to air in the next couple of years.   You could always purchase a new Skydodgybox new or second hand and - for safety - get it paired up with your card by ringing Sky from the UK and giving them the details of box and card.

Bon chance.

As to the other post about UK addresses,   I would imagine that you are tied in to the contract for the full twelve months UNLESS you tell them you are going abroad,  whicn you don't want to do.  That's a difficult one.

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@ andy - thanks for your comment;  in fact it was Eslier who made the comment you highlighted;  the forum quote system seems to have mis-attributed it.

Personally I sleep easy in my bed;  I couldn't care less about these copyright fine points because I think we should be doing much more to fight this system which is doing so much to prevent our viewing ANY programmess from any country other than our own.   It's in complete conflict with European ideals and I consider the sharing of our individual cultures and languages as far more important than a few extra pennies in some over-rich film organisation's pockets.   The BBC have shown that it CAN be done,  the Germans have been FTA for years and years.

That's not supposed to be politically correct clap-trap,  but I think the rights owners have become far too powerful.   Murdoch for example.

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Sorry for the misattribution Martin, I will try to be more careful when deleting the extraneous bits.

BTW I agree totally with you about sharing culture and was pleased when the EU DG IV announced they were going to investigate and disappointed when they decided no action was needed.

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Martin is correct, as usual, but you mention Film 4 - you should be getting this, and Film 4+1 as they went Free To air last year, with the penalty now that they have adverts. Your box should be capable of receiving them. More 4 and E4 are still part of the basic sky subscription package and therefore your box will not get them - at the moment.

Tim

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