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Sky televsion in France


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It seems that Sky has now stopped the sale of non subsidised digiboxes and that only UK based ASA's (Authorised Sky Agents) can now be issued with them.

As I understand it what this means in effect is that all new digiboxes are subject to a minimum one year contract and must be connected to a UK telephone line so therefore new digiboxes cannot now be had in France. It does not stop anyone from getting Sky televsion over here of course as there a literally thousands of good quality second hand boxes floating around as people upgrade to either HD or Sky plus.

 

 

 

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I did actually say this about HD boxes a year ago when a SKY engineer told me that was the plan.  But people as they can, said that it was SKY bull and they would get HD in France. So, has anybody actually achieved SKY HD in France through a UK based SKY subscription?

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[quote user="Ron Avery"]I did actually say this about HD boxes a year ago when a SKY engineer told me that was the plan.  But people as they can, said that it was SKY bull shite and they would get HD in France. So, has anybody actually achieved SKY HD in France through a UK based SKY subscription?[/quote]

I would not be surprised to see Sky having to reduce their subscriptions and removing their £10 per month charge for HD. As Freesat are offering Free HD (although limited at present) and TV manufacturers now beginning to include Freesat and HD built in to their TV's.  The markets changes are immense at the present time and unless you want programmes like sports or specialist subjects then  subscribing to Sky in France now seems less attractive.

Baz

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Yes, I think a bit of competition to Sky will ensure a few changes over the coming months. I was reading a few days ago that the BBC has been requesting for some time an improvement in the radio information display on Sky boxes as at the moment it is very limited and Sky have not been willing to do anything. It's quite a contrast to what you get with a Freeview box when in the UK - there's a lot more info about the programme etc.

Tim

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There certainly are changes but I must admit to a bit of head scratching on how existing suppliers of Sky boxes in France (or elsewhere for that matter) are going to be able to legitimately supply new boxes as I assume all boxes supplied to ASA's will  be tracked (as well as they can be) and that Sky will now expect to see a subscription from that same box. By virtue of Sky's own restrictions there cannot be any bona fide Sky agents in France - or can there?

 

 

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[quote user="Bannon"]

By virtue of Sky's own restrictions there cannot be any bona fide Sky agents in France - or can there?

[/quote]

Of course there are - how do you think we obtained ours, having not subscribed back in UK ?

Mrs Rose, Croydon

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When you obtained your box Sky were allowing the sale of them to anyone - Sky agent or not and anway, if your supplier was a Sky agent and supplied you with a subsidised box then Sky would remove them from their ASA listing. That was the point of my observation.

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For those to whom HD is important I say good luck but for my own part I couldn't give a monkeys for it.

It's not that I don't appreciate the quality, I certainly do, I'm simply not interested enough to shell out the sort of money neccessary to do it justice. Maybe when my venerable 32" CRT TV gives up the ghost I'll think about it but of course it doesn't stop with an HD display does it [:'(]

My TiVo's are the central and most important parts of my TV setup and they are not HD capable so going HD would involve a top to bottom rethink along with the resultant major expenditure.

 

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Slightly off tangent, just as ErnieY above, I wonder if any HD fan could let us know what is so good about it.

The content of TV programmes is gradually getting dumber and I rarely watch a programme all the way through - even the News is something of an entertainment show now. They have to fill those 24 hours somehow. Panorama - huh! a very pale shadow of it's former self.  BBC2 Money Programme - pah!

Anyway, back to the point - I happily (?) shell out £38 per month for footie and other sports on Sky and so show a willingness (well, you know what I mean) to pay for what I want. I've seen HD in the shops and it's a bit more detailed than the regular picture on LCD and plasma screens, which in themselves were a deterioration in quality compared with a good quality and well set up old fashioned cathode ray tube set.

OK it's a bit better but really, really not worth the extra spend at present  - unless you know better of course. 

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[quote user="Chris"]

For whoever asked about reception of Sky HD in France (Ron Avery, I think),  we've been happily watching Sky HD since we arrived with our receiver a year ago in March.

Chris

[/quote]

Chris

You obviously had your box installed before you moved to France, but how do you manage to get HD without a phone line connected?  According to SKY you cannot get HD without a connected UK phone line. Do you really get HD?

Its interesting that when I last checked none of the "French based" SKY installers offer HD, you can buy an HD box from them OK but they don't offer the installation.  So I assumed that this time SKY were telling the truth.

When my daughter had her SKY upgraded I asked the independent engineer if it was possible to get HD in France, he said not due to the box having to be initiated via the UK phone line and then having to stay connected.

Ernie.  If you have seen HD on a good HD TV you would really appreciate the difference it makes. 

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You need to look at screen size versus either pixels per square centimetre or number of lines and refresh rates. The arguments are akin to the discusions about graininess of various chemical films. I had a very hard time in Jessops last time I bought Isabel a camera with an assistant who was trying to switch sell us a APS camera versus the 35 mm she wanted.  I finally won by pointing out that my camera of choice remained a 2 1/4 inch twin lens reflex and I still used 1/4 plate from time to time . An awful lot of the programmes they are transmitting in HD were not filmed or recorded in sufficiently high definition to benefit. However there are some programmes which do look better in HD but not enough for me to shell out for the kit yet.
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Of course I've seen it Ron, it's impossible to miss when you go into shops which are selling the kit and have it running, and I won't argue that it is impressive, it's just that I personally have absolutely no need or desire for it, 'er indoors likewise.

 

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There's about three different topics running on this thread since Bannon's original post. What Bannon is saying (I think) is that the Sky unsubsidised digibox is coming to an end. This is absolutely true, the present  manufacturers of unsubsidised digiboxes are Thomson and Pace and they were instructed in April to cease production of unsubsidised digiboxes. The way the distribution system works (and the numbers involved) means that stock of these digiboxes will run out by the end of June or July. In practical terms, the independent satellite supplier (no matter where he is, UK,  France or Spain) will no longer be able to legally supply new Sky digiboxes.

Bannon is also correct in saying that only official ASAs in the UK will be able to supply digiboxes but they will be subsidised and therefore subject to the conditions of sale laid down by Sky. What Bannon didn't say, but hinted at, is that dealers in France can no longer supply Sky digiboxes legitimately and therefore some of those dealers will certainly go out of business, especially the ones who base their business on the supply of Sky digiboxes. 

The reason for all this is due to a continuing and unrelenting crackdown on the supply of Sky services into Europe. That crackdown started some while ago and several Sky ASAs have been sacked for trading outside the Terms and Conditions laid down by Sky. Sky recently subjected their remaining dealers to an audit and supplies to the dealers will be subject to a form of rationing so that any 'abnormal'  trading will be detected and be acted upon. The true effects of this clampdown probably won't filter through to the end-user until the end of the summer but the days of the Sky digibox abroad through legitimate dealers are rapidly drawing to a close.

Addressing some of the other points that came up:

It's a common misconception that the telephone connection required with most Sky subscriptions is checked by Sky. It isn't. The telephone connection is a contractual requirement and not a technical one, so Sky HD digiboxes work in France without any need for a telephone connection. The only telephone connection that Sky actually check is for Multiroom, this is religiously checked by Sky and if you pay for Multiroom and remove a digibox from the telephone line, Sky will soon make contact with you.

Also, in reply to Bannon's statement that dealers in France can't offer bona fide Sky subscriptions, someone said that:

Of course there are - how do you think we obtained ours, having not subscribed back in UK ?

Sorry to disillusion you, but if you arranged a subscription through any dealer in France it certainly wasn't bona fide. You did it through a dealer who told you he was 'official' but was trading with a UK dealer who broke his Terms and Conditions with Sky. That UK dealer might well have been on Sky's hit list and no longer enjoys that privelege.

 

 

  

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Spot on Mike and well put.

The same applies in some way I suppose to Sky subscriptions arranged on any refurbished/second hand digiboxes through a UK address. Not sure if Sky can control this aspect though unless they insist that new subscriptions on any Sky digibox has to be connected to a telephone line.

Why do Sky exert this sort of pressure and control? I can only assume that apart from wanting a big slice of the subscription market cake, they also have their own contractual obligations to their own program providers and cannot be seen to either endorse, encourage or allow viewing from outside the UK market. 

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[quote user="microwave mike"]Sorry to disillusion you, but if you arranged a subscription through any dealer in France it certainly wasn't bona fide. You did it through a dealer who told you he was 'official' but was trading with a UK dealer who broke his Terms and Conditions with Sky. That UK dealer might well have been on Sky's hit list and no longer enjoys that privelege. [/quote]Which implies that such subscriptions may be libel to summary cancellation does it not ?

Those continuing to subscribe through a previously legitimate UK contract should be OK - I hope [blink]

I 'transferred' my subscription to my daughters address when we moved. She and SIL do not have Sky themselves and have no plans to get it in the forseeable future.

 

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Ah no sorry. If  Sky get a sniff of the fact that you are using an address that is not your own or that your original address has changed they may cancel your subscription. Having said that I am sure that Sky are well aware of the situation and cannot be unhappy about taking those unoffical subscriptions from literally thousands of subscribers in continental europe. They just cannot as said be seen to be endorsing it.

Advertsiers also have a vested interest in that they need to target specific groups in specific areas - and there budget must be in the millions. I'd not be a happy exec bunny if I thought my advertsing target was skewed to any great extent.

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I'm confused at this apparent policy change by Sky; how do they gain by clamping down on the sale of unsubsidised boxes ?

They only change anything if there is the prospect of a short or long-term financial gain (not unnaturally; they are after all a money-making enterprise, not a charity). So where's the upside in this move ?

I can't believe it's the rights-holders, as they've shown scant inclination to bend to their wishes in the past, and Sky's financial clout far exceeds the pressure any individual rights-holder can manage to exert. The only 'grey' area where Sky has taken a really strong line has been with clubs and pubs, where the prospective loss at the possibility of thousands of footy fans piling into pubs to watch the match on a big screen fed from a box with a 'personal' subscription, made the accountants blanch. Despite what you occasionally read in the popular prints, I've yet to see evidence of widespread, organised infringement of the broadcasting rights - to the extent where it materially affects neighbouring rights holders (I'm thinking principally of time/territory shifted sports events rights), so - again - what's the driver for this policy change ?

And, just as a complete aside, it all flies in the face of the EU's 'open sky' pious hopes and aspirations for a Euro-zone without internal rights bounderies.

EDIT: It's not called 'open sky' - that's airlines. I'm sure one of my esteemed fellow posters will remember what it's actualy called !
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I think the fundamental issue may be that Sky are not licenced to broadcast outside the UK and it's only the real or potential threats of legal action or sanctions which are driving them to cut off an otherwise nice little income stream.

 

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I think it's termed the free movement of goods and services.

All the European sat operators (apart from DigiAlb) flout European law by refusing to sell subs outside their "main" country and until they obey the law like the rest of us they have no sympathy from me.   One of the reasons they don't compete outside their "area" is that they're all terrified that some viewers may realise that other countries get a better deal and leave the "home" operator en masse.   As Ernie says,   Sky might quite like that if it worked in their favour on the continent.    Although some UK viewers might like to subscribe to smaller cheaper packages from abroad.  

Either way the behaviour of the operators restricts free choice.

I won't say what I think of rights holders and their "Spanish practices".

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It will be interesting to see how / if  things change once the EU eventually  implements the free movement of services in a few years time. I will have to check to see what exemptions have been made for cultural services.

Edit

In fact I see that  les services audiovisuels  are excluded from the proposed directive as they are already covered by other legislation. Now what is that likely to say....

http://www.euractiv.fr/marche-interieur-entreprises/dossier/de-la-directive-bolkestein-a-la-directive-services-revisee

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So does that mean that the present no-across-the-border-competition situation will be allowed to remain?

Last I heard the EU wanted to break the individual territorial monopolies,   partly because they realised that it encouraged piracy...

Maybe they've thrown in the towel....?

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[quote user="ErnieY"]

I think the fundamental issue may be that Sky are not licenced to broadcast outside the UK and it's only the real or potential threats of legal action or sanctions which are driving them to cut off an otherwise nice little income stream.

 

[/quote]

One Sky do not own the satellites they as well as BBC ITV etc pay to have their programmes transmitted. They transmit where you recieve the transmissions your affair. The issue is that the broadcasters buy TV rights to transmit to specefic countries and if for instances all of France started watching the next series of the Simpsons in VO before it was transmitted in France then the purchaser of French rights would feel their investment was being devalued. The problem is likely to go away in the near future as film releases are now almost simultanious Worldwide with televison TX and DVD following very quickly. As far as I am aware the delay between first TX of say House in the US  and broadcast in UK and France is now minimal.

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