SKY PICTURE RECEPTION

[bouliste]

My first posting and apologies if this subject has already been covered. I have recently had a SONY BRAVIA KDL-40W4000 television installed and am rather confused as to why I have to receive my SKY programmes via the ANALOGUE button on my telecommand (resulting in a rather grainy picture), although all my French channels are received via the DIGITAL button? The man installing the set said that I could only receive the SKY programmes in ANALOGUE mode? Can this be true- or is there a way to receive them in digital mode?

Does that also mean that I will not be able to watch SKY in HD in future?

As you will gather I am no technician as far as the new genaration of  televisions are concerned - any advice would be most helpful!

[Clair]

Copied from another thread:

Your dish is probably pointing at the Astra 1/hotbird cluster.

If you want to view the Sky channels, you need to swivel the

dish about 10 degrees more to the east for the Astra 2d cluster.

[bouliste]

Hi Clair, Thanks for your reply. I am pretty sure that I am already pointing at the Astra 2d cluster - is there anyway I can verify this on my set or via my digibox? I receive the full range of Sky channels OK - just not in digital mode.

[Martin963]

From what you say it sounds to me as though the installer has used the RF output on the Skybox to feed the Sky signal via a flylead plugged into the aerial input on the TV.   I take this to be the case from the fact you push an analogue button to get Sky.   Would I be right in thinking that Sky is on (say) button 5 or 7 or 8 (say) and that there are French programmes on 1 and 2 and 3 when in "analogue" mode?

Anyway,   what you could check is whether there is a SCART (or peritel) cable linking the Sky box and the TV.   This is a chunky klutzy cable with big plugs on either end,   and one end would be connected to the multip-pin TV socket on the Sky box and the other end to a similar socket on the TV marked AV1 or EXT 1 or AV2 or similar..

If there is such a cable,  try and identify the name of the socket on the TV to which it's connected.     If there isn't a cable then it would be sensible to go out and buy one.

If there is a cable then please report back and we'll go onto the next stage!

(I should add that if you have a non HD sky box then the link to the TV will only be analogue,   but using a SCART cable you should get a near-perfect picture with no graininess.   If and when you get an HD box you would connect it to the Bravia using a HDMi lead,   which is a bit like a USB cable).

[Anton Redman]

If you are receiving BBC1 as channel 101 then at least one dish and LNB is correctly aligned.

The Sony has two Scart/Pertel sockets at the back so there is no reason for not to use one.

The only other change I can suggest is when you have the scart connected try

Services(green oval button) - then 4 system set up - then 1 picture and change the option to RGB from PAL and save the settings

You toggle up and down the menus with the arrow kets and check the options with the right and left arrows

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Sony-KDL40W4000/

[Robbie34]

I have the later Sony -40X3500 - and there is a button for choosing the AV input from an external source. On mine it is at one o'clock from the OK button. This allows you to choose from TV, AV1, AV2, and the various HDMI inputs. Connect the scart lead from your satellite box to one of the scart connections on your tv. Switch on your digibox and then choose either AV1 or AV2.

If your satellite system has been correctly installed you should get reception on one of those inputs.

[gosub]

If you connect a scart lead to the TV input marked "smart link", then you turn on the TV, then the digi box, it should automatically switch to the digibox signal.

[Jako]

The answer is simple. You own an 'ordinary' sky box with only  'ordinary' analogue output. ( scart-plug) .

 

The only way to change this is to buy a decent HD receiver with a digital HDMI output.

[Anton Redman]

We are receiving,to my eyes perfectly good picture, using a SCART lead out of an ordinary non HD Sky box into a 105 cm wide screen plasma TV.  No artifacts and no pixilation

Another alternative is to check which channels are in use to broadcast SKY down the co axial cable, check which analogue channels are still in use locally and then choose another channel. I would try the SCART option first though.

[Bilbo]

[quote user="Jako"]The answer is simple. You own an 'ordinary' sky box with only  'ordinary' analogue output. ( scart-plug) .

 

The only way to change this is to buy a decent HD receiver with a digital HDMI output.[/quote]

That is not correct. Sky boxes have both Scart and RF outputs. The Scart connector will give digital output while the other goes through  conversion to give analogue output for older TVs without a Scart connector. Digital output and HD output are not the same thing.

The poster needs to connect his Sky box via the Scart connector rather than the RF one, as others have said.

[bouliste]

Many thanks for all the replies. I need to check out all the details of my Sky set-up and do another posting as it is not quite straightforward! I live in a flat on the 4th floor of a 7 floor buiilding with my satellite dish on the roof and my digibox (sited in the hallway) connected to 2 tv's(on different floors) via a infra-red system. Will supply more details tomorrow. One item which may be crucial is that the scart lead connects to the AV1 socket of my Sony tv from my magnetscope.

[Anton Redman]

The back of the Sky digibox has two scart sockets one labelled TV Scart and the second labelled VCR Scart. Disconnect the Scart at the Magnetescope = VCR and plug that scart into the digibox, use a second Scart to link the magnetescope to the digibox.

[bouliste]

[quote user="bouliste"]

Many thanks for all the replies. I need to check out all the details of my Sky set-up and do another posting as it is not quite straightforward! I live in a flat on the 4th floor of a 7 floor buiilding with my satellite dish on the roof and my digibox (sited in the hallway) connected to 2 tv's(on different floors) via a infra-red system. Will supply more details tomorrow. One item which may be crucial is that the scart lead connects to the AV1 socket of my Sony tv from my magnetscope.

[/quote]H

Here goes for my Sky set-up (as far as I can make out, not being technically gifted as you will have gathered!)

My satellite dish (7th floor roof) is connected to a PACE SKY DIGIBOX DS5430N which sits on a shelf of  the ground floor of my flat (4th floor). A scart lead connects from the lower socket

(marked TV Scart) to a infra red system box (SEDEA Reception) . Two cables feed from this - one to a Recepteur IR box next to the TV in the bedroom on the 1st Floor and one to the Recepteur IR next to the Sony Bravia TV in the Living Room on the 2nd floor. A cable connects from  both these boxes to the two video recorders ( one for each TV) via the aerial socket at the rear. A Scart lead connects to the Sony TV ( AV1 socket) from the video recorder (AV1 EXT1 socket). Same type of connection for the bedroom TV. All my Sky remote handset commands are operated by pointing at the infra -red box next to the TV's.

Via the DIGITAL button on my Sony handset I can access 18 Digital French channels

Via the ANALOGUE button I can access French channels 1-6 (except Channel  4 as I dont subscribe to Canal+)  -  Also SKY which has been set up by the installer on Channel 8.

In response to the question about viewing order of channels - I do access the channels in the correct order on Sky - (BBC1/2 on 101/2 - ITV on 103  - Ch4 on 104 etc) 

The bedroom set only has the basic analogue French channels as well as Sky  - its only a standard portable (several yrs old).

It seems to me that the only Scart cable I can play around with is the one from the back of my video recorder connecting to the Sony tv .

As I mentioned before,  until now this system has served me well - its only switching to this new Sony Bravia set that I see a marked difference in the quality of picture having to view Sky in Analogue ( I had always assumed I was watching Sky Digital in Digital mode on my previous set when it was set on Channel 0!).

The more I read this the more complicated it seems!

I suppose the basic question is - Can I watch Sky in digital format on my set - if yes, why did they not set the Sky channel on digital for me -or maybe they could not be bothered doing all the rejigging!

Thanks again for all the responses.

.

 

[Martin963]

I'm not familiar with the SEDEA but presumably the losses are happening because of this set up "a distance".   I wasn't that far out with my original surmise was I?

So if I'm following this right the Sky box feeds the SEDEA via Scart,   and then aerial-fly-lead type cables carry the Sky signal at RF  (ie "at Radio Frequency") to the two videos,  as well as carrying the IR commands back.   The videos would also have aerial fly leads going to their respective TV's,  as well as the SCART's.

It's not ideal!!

In an ideal world you'd get the Sky box closer to the main TV,  (extending the sat feed cable of course) and then link the Sky box and the TV using a Scart lead.   The VCR also,  the Sky box has two Scart sockets.

You'd then use the RF2 to feed the little TV,  and rejig the IR command system as appropriate.

Without seeing your set up it's difficult to say whether the cables are correctly set up or whether the RF tuing (for example) is a bit awry.    But what I would try (if nothing else,  and if you can) is to get a long aerial fly lead and plug the RF2 output of the Sky box direct to the TV aerial socket and then try prog 8.    If you now have a clear signal it suggests that the signals coming down off air from the aerial are overloading the distribution,   and this can lead to a noisy picture on the Sky channel.

That's just a guess,  others may have other or better thoughts.   But it's a start....

[Jako]

[quote user="Bilbo"][quote user="Jako"]The answer is simple. You own an 'ordinary' sky box with only  'ordinary' analogue output. ( scart-plug) .

 

The only way to change this is to buy a decent HD receiver with a digital HDMI output.[/quote]

That is not correct. Sky boxes have both Scart and RF outputs. The Scart connector will give digital output while the other goes through  conversion to give analogue output for older TVs without a Scart connector. Digital output and HD output are not the same thing.

The poster needs to connect his Sky box via the Scart connector rather than the RF one, as others have said.

[/quote]

Both RF and SCART  are ANALOGUE outputs!

 

The only digital connection is a HDMI connection and the only receivers with HDMI are HD receivers.

Anyone thinking that SCART is a digital signal needs to be hospitalised.[:P]

[Martin963]

Jako,  whilst of course you are quite right about Scart sockets,   the OP was only envisaging a digital set up in the future. 

Your "simple" scheme would not help much at the moment,   given that even if an HD receiver was purchased it would still need a long HDMi cable or a complete spatial re-organisation.   Lack of "digital" signal transport is not the Op's problem,  poor set up and implementation of the existing equipment are more relevant.

And in answer to the final question - no - not unless you go out and buy a digital sat box of some sort (as Jako has already stated).    But yes if you did,  and if you purchased the correct cable and found a way to run it to the Bravia.

[Martin963]

Whoops,  silly me.   If you try the Sky RF2 to TV direct you'll probably need to choose a "spare" analogue slot and then tune in the Sky box on the TV.

Maybe more trouble than it's worth

Actually it would help to know how the signal from the aerial gets to any of the units,   is it plugged into RF1 on the Sky box,  or into the VCR's, or what...?

[Robbie34]

[quote user="Jako"][quote user="Bilbo"][quote user="Jako"]The answer is simple. You own an 'ordinary' sky box with only  'ordinary' analogue output. ( scart-plug) .

 

The only way to change this is to buy a decent HD receiver with a digital HDMI output.[/quote]

That is not correct. Sky boxes have both Scart and RF outputs. The Scart connector will give digital output while the other goes through  conversion to give analogue output for older TVs without a Scart connector. Digital output and HD output are not the same thing.

The poster needs to connect his Sky box via the Scart connector rather than the RF one, as others have said.

[/quote]

Both RF and SCART  are ANALOGUE outputs!

 

The only digital connection is a HDMI connection and the only receivers with HDMI are HD receivers.

Anyone thinking that SCART is a digital signal needs to be hospitalised.[:P]

[/quote]

That is just not true.

A scart can transfer digital and analogue signals. HDMI stands for high definition multimedia interface, and is also used for upscaling signals from DVD players to give an HD like output, although it is not HD.

[Martin963]

Robbie -  how does that work?

I am aware that there are pins designated variously as "data" or "spare" on Scarts but unless they are implemented to carry digital versions of the signal they won't be of use,  and I wasn't aware that any STB's or TV's used Scart in this manner.  Scart was of course "invented" long before it became common to use digital signals in the domestic environment.

And of course the oh-so-precious rights holders have forbad "non-crippled" digital video signals -  hence one of the main reasons for HDMi.

Could you enlighten me a bit....?

[Anton Redman]

If it were my problem. I would move the Sony TV downstairs and try it with a SCART lead direct from the Digibox. If that picture is not good quality then you either have a problem with the digibox or the TV. I it is good quality then :

1. Ask the guy who installed the setup about either better screened cables or trying another frequency for sending the picture round the house.

2. If you want Freesat or Sky HD in the future then think another coaxial feed from the dish direct to where you have the TV

 

[Martin963]

It's probably the best approach Anton.

The only modification I'd suggest is that I suspect the Bravia is big,  and it might be easier to buy a F plug to F plug extension lead )or make one up) and move the Sky box temporarily.

[Anton Redman]

Agree. I think the OP will hit a problem when upgrading to HD either Sky or Freesat as none of the boxes I have found so far have RF output. 

[bouliste]

Martin, Many thanks for your input - even if most of it is beyond my poor technical comprehension! I have checkedthe back of my Sky Digibox - nothing connected to the three sockets marked  aerial in / rf out 1 / rf out 2 . The scart lead connects to the SEDEA box from the socket at the rear of the digibox marked TV Scart. Apart from the satellite cable which conects to the socket marked Dish Input the only other connection is the mains power lead.

 

It seems from what you and other contributors have said,  that I need a complete review of my current set-up by someone experienced in these matters! ( I dare not tamper with the set up as my wife is threating divorce if I lose the Sky system!!)

I live in Le Lavandou in the Var Department so if anyone knows of a experienced installer in my area I would be grateful if they could let me know. I notice that adverts appear in various english language publications like the Connexion for Sky installations - one company currently advertising being  ORBIT HOME TECHNOLOGIES - if anyone has had deaings with them perhaps they could email me.

If I have to upgrade my Sky Digibox in order to overcome my problems/be able to view in HD where do I stand as far as my sky card is concerned (Just switched to the new replacement card  that Sky sent out to me - via a UK address - last week).

As I will be away for the next couple of weeks after this weekend can I once again thank all those people who have tried to help me. I shall certinly keep all this information to hand if only I can manage to find someone to come and help me out!

[Martin963]

We're delighted to help,  and it is difficult not to lapse into the jargon at times,  for which I apologise.

Upgrading to Sky (or other) HD won't help on its own,  as so much of your difficulties stem from the physical separation of all your boxes.   I realise that you probably are loath to fiddle too much,  but if you cuold get an F connecteR to F connector extension cable (with the appropriate female to female coupler) it would just be a case of moving the Sky box,  using the extension to lengthen the sat cable,   using a Scart lead to go from Sky box to TV,  and at least you'd have good pictures on the main set.   However,   it would stop the secondary set working until you'd extensively re-jigged,  and without seeing what you've got it's too difficult to give water-tight instructions on that front....!

Only wish I was nearer as I love a good fiddle!

Anyway,  have a good time away.

Not sure about the procedure for Sky HD - don't they insist on coming and setting it up for you whether you want it or not.....?

[flittle]

Oh dear, I have only just read this thread and I'm sorry but many of the replies you have received seem well wide of the mark. Perhaps people should read the question properly before rushing into print. Firstly please do not start pulling your system to pieces before you have tried a couple of simple solutions. I can't see any reason why your system should not work efficiently.

Let's start with your confusion over the digital/analogue thing, you have made clear that you are non-technical so let's deal with that up for a start. The signals received from Astra2 on a satellite receiver, be it Sky or anything else,are digital signals whereas the output from a standard Sky box is analogue. It would have to be

because people have not had access to digital TVs until recently.

So if it makes it simpler you can think of a Sky box being not only a satellite receiver but a digital to analogue convertor.

The three possibilities from a Sky box are:

Pal composite video

Pal composite video modulated onto a rf carrier, usually channel 36 or channel 38 by default.

RGB For simplicity three separate colour pictures red green an blue.

You are clearly using the composite video output from the Sky box and feeding it via a Scart lead into a Sedea RF modulator. You are then taking two outputs from this to two different rooms.

I have looked on the Sedea website at their current RF modulator and there is a gain control close to one of the scart inputs, this gain control can vary the output signal by about ten times. So the very first thing to check is this control, turn it full up to start with, if necessary you reduce it if the signal becomes too strong. If this solution works you can forget the next bit.

The next thing is to check which RF channel the Sedea is using. The attenuation(signal deterioration) on a cable is proportional to the channel No. or frequency being used. So for example if you were using UHF channel 68, better results would be obtained using UHF channel 21.

The Sedea is capable of using Vhf signals which have an even lower loss and the Sony Bravia range can tune down as low as Channel 2. It appears that the Sony is easy to tune.

So change the output channel of the Sedea to a vhf channel 2 or 3 and tune a spare analogue position, say 9, to that channel. Keep a note of the current output channel so if things go pear shape you can put it back where it was in order to maintain good marital relations.

I suggest it would be better to leave the position 8 as it is, to enable you to back track if necessary.

Frank