"Sky Guide" Problems

[cooperlola]

For the last 24 hours I've been having problems with the Sky Programme guide.  It will not load properly and only shows programmes on a few channels and for the next couple of hours or so, depending upon the channel.  This is a mega bore for me as I rarely watch TV live and tend to programme a day or two in advance at a minimum.

I have recently had a quad LNB installed which took some doing as the fitting wasn't 100% perfect for my dish and the guys had a bit of trouble fitting it.  I have also recently (at about the same time) changed my Skybox after probems with the previous PACE one which kept switching off mid programme.

Can any of you kind techy lot (Martin, Tim?) tell me what generally causes problems like these?  The Skybox?  The connections - on the roof or on or between the recorder/Skybox/TV etc?  Weather conditions (it was raining for about 10 minutes for the first time for 6 weeks when I first noticed the problem) or water in the connections by the dish? Or is it just a Sky signal problem?  In other words, where do I begin to try to correct this if indeed it's anything to do with my kit at all?

The programme reception, by the way, appears to be perfect and the Auto View and Series Link options are working perfectly.

[Anton Redman II]

Rather long post but try the checks on signal quality. At a guess the alignment of the LNB on the arm is no longer quite correct. It may be marginally to close or too far from the dish. Also it should be pointing to about 7 pm rather than vertical (NB some Quad LNBs do need to be vertical). Take a note of signal strength and quality using Services (green oval button) – 4 System set up – 6 signal test. Broadly if signal quality is above 50 % you will get a picture. I normally aim to reach over 90 % for quality.

 

Swop the two coaxial leads round on the digibox and see if that has any impact. Ideally see how your digibox behaves on another dish which is set up for UK TV and try another digibox on your set up

 

Try the channels 319 to 325 to see what quality picture you see – here are some fairly grotty movies but broadcast at low power so a good check on disk alignment.

 

Have a look at signal strength and quality using another transponder rather than the default.

 

Use the following sequence on the remote control

Services (green oval button)

4   System Set Up

0  1  Select ( NB nothing is shown on screen till you press Select)

2  Default transponder

 

 The Default Transponder Menu Looks like this

Frequency (GHz) 11.778

Polarisation V

Symbol Rate (Mbaud) 27.5

FEQ 2/3

Save New Settings

 

For ITV1 you change the setting to

Frequency (GHz) 10.758

Polarisation V

Symbol Rate (Mbaud) 22.0

FEQ 5/6

Save New Settings

 

For BBC 1

Frequency (GHz) 10.773

Polarisation H

Symbol Rate (Mbaud) 22.0

FEQ 5/6

Save New Settings

 

For Classic FM

Frequency 12.523

Polarisation V

Symbol Rate (Mbaud ) SR 27.5 

FEC 2/3

Save New Settings

 

After you have saved the settings recheck strength and quality as above and finally restore the default settings.Parameters for other channels

 

http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/skyuk.html

 

Best of luck

 

Notes on fine tuning dish alignment as below :

 

Fine tuning the dish alignment.  Before you start moving anything. Mark the elevation on the dish with a paint line or scratch so that you can recover the same position if everything goes wrong.  Walk down the garden at least 10 metres and stand so that the LNB arm is aimed straight at you, hammer a stake into the ground so you can find the exact angle if anything goes wrong.  Wait for a dry day if possible and take you digibox and a small portable TV outside so that you can see them as you move the dish by minute amounts.  Maximise the signal strength then quality on the default transponder:  Move the dish up and down and left to right by minute amounts first maximising strength then quality.  Lock the position then move the LNB clockwise or anticlockwise and also in and out again concentrating on quality. If moving the dish does not change quality the digibox has locked. You need to unplug it, or switch off at the mains, then switch/plug it back and wait for it to boot up.

[cooperlola]

Thanks Anton - and sorry by the way for not including you in my little list of Tellie thread stalwarts!

I have looked at the Signal Test page and there are just two grey lines in the Strength and Quality boxes.  Am I supposed to press anything else? I haven't touched the Transponder settings yet....

Both the channels you cite work perfectly and in fact, as stated, there is nothing wrong with the picture quality at all - it is quite normal.

Meanwhile, wybi, most of the channel guide has restored itself to normality also.[:-))]

[Anton Redman II]

Everything grey = 100 % , half way = 50% . I suspect Sky opted for the lines so they did not have people ringing up who only had 50% etc. If the guide is on its way back and the movie channels were OK I would not mess with it.

 

[cooperlola]

Now they just have thickos who don't get what grey lines mean!   Strength is in fact well up (probably around 85 at a guess) but quality below half way. 

[Martin963]

In an ideal world quality should be up at least in the 70%'s.

Keep an eye on it for 24 hours,   quality often drops off even during heavily overcast (but often not actually raining) conditions,  and if this is the case it does sound as though alignment has drifted.

As Anton says,  classic one is that French installers don't know that for Astra 2 you need to twist the LNB 20 to 30 degrees clockwise (viewed from in front of the dish) to optimise the skew.   On the older Sky dishes there was a screw you loosened and then twisted the LNB on its support,  on conventional ones you just slacken the ring that holds the LNB and twist.

Sounds a possible culprit,  can you send another close-up photo Coops...?

[cooperlola]

The LNB change was in fact something of a diy fix in the end - performed by a Brit friend who's good on electrics but not sat savvy and my o/h (who is not mad about ladders!)  It worked without any problems for a couple of weeks then we got a sign of rain (hardly any has actually fallen yet so still watering the garden!) and my problems started.

I'll monitor the signal progress and try to get a pic when the lads are back on the case on Wednesday.

 

[cooperlola]

Right chaps.  Today there was a bit of Fiddling on the Roof.  This was the state of my signal before:

[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/P1000218.jpg[/IMG]

He took a few pics up there and also adjusted the length of the arm of the new LNB so it equates now with the old one.  This improved the signal quality quite a bit but it's far from the percentages you both quote (moving it nearer or further away made it worse so it appears to be optimum now.) 

[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/P1000224.jpg[/IMG]

 Should we be fiddling with any other adjustments?

[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/P1000223.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/P1000222.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/P1000221.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/P1000220.jpg[/IMG]

 

Opinions gratefully received![:)]

[Jimmy]

That looks pretty good to me. I've installed a few units for myself and friends, without a meter I doubt you will get it much better.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Jimmy"]That looks pretty good to me. I've installed a few units for myself and friends, without a meter I doubt you will get it much better.
[/quote]Sadly Jimmy, one thing I didn't do was to check the signal strengths before the LNB change so I don't know if I'm back where I was before or not.  But as I posted before to Anton and Martin, the quality of the picture is (and always has been since it was installed) excellent, whatever the weather.  The only problems I ever have are with the guide which, for me at least, is a critical part of my set up since I record almost all of what I watch.  I think that for the moment at least I will leave it where it is unless I get problems next time there's a cloud in the sky.  I do have a satfinder somewhere but sadly not a satfinder finder as I can't remember where I put the thing.....[:-))]

[Anton Redman II]

If it now works I would leave well alone. The figures for quality should mean an improvement in the day to day picture quality and performance during heavy rain. It is well over 40 years since looked at conic sections but I suspect that you have needed to lengthen the arm ( the LNB should be all the way in) to compensate for droop due to the heavier LNB.

If the arm can be lifted/rocked I might try washers to lock it in the higher position and retry the LNB movement   Failing that unless you have trees or building in the way I would try a a larger dish mounted lower. The satelites are thousands of miles away 15 feet does not make any difference.

Once you have found the right cluster of satelites I do not find that Sat Finder helps. Optimising on a weak signal like Classic FM can help.

[cooperlola]

Yes, the trees and our barns are the problem, Anton - it's as low as it can be without the shrubbery causing problems (I love trees but they're a right bar steward in this situation!)

There's also the Canal+dish (bigger) beneath it (the chimney on the right.)

[IMG]http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q103/cooperlola/gallatieres508.jpg[/IMG]

[Jimmy]

Looking at your pics again I think it might be worth your while to invest in a new dish. You can get a decent 80cm dish from Brico Depot for around 36€ including a "tete universell". You could then mount that on the existing bracket. Link ANTENNE D 80 + TETE UNIVERSELLE

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Jimmy"]Looking at your pics again I think it might be worth your while to invest in a new dish. You can get a decent 80cm dish from Brico Depot for around 36€ including a "tete universell". You could then mount that on the existing bracket. Link ANTENNE D 80 + TETE UNIVERSELLE[/quote]In a perfect world this is what I would (and probably will) do but I don't know how the lads will react to a complete dish change - I have to be a bit subtle when I'm trying to get them up on the roof to fiddle with my telly.  My o/h doesn't watch (well, he always says he doesn't but it's amazing how he turns up when I've got the motor racing on....)

[Anton Redman II]

Tell them you have been reliably informed that a series about Italien housewifes comparing budget underware has just been launched on Astra 2

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Anton Redman II"]Tell them you have been reliably informed that a series about Italien housewifes comparing budget underware has just been launched on Astra 2[/quote][:D][:D][:D]

I gather you've met them....

[Martin963]

As others have said,   you've probably done what you can in the circumstances.   Bigger dishes (when accurately aligned!) do bring the quality level up considerably,   but what you've got now should work most of the time.

Skew looks to have been set OK,  and in any case AFAIK the Sky EPG you are using is not on 2D but on 2A/B,   the latter needing less of a skew twist than the actual BBC/ITV/C4 programmes themselves on 2D.

[cooperlola]

Now you have worried me Martin.

I have fitted a quad LNB as I wanted to use another box so I can watch one channel and record another.  I in fact have "Freesat" built into one of my DVD recorders (although I have not set it up.)  Are you telling me that I won't be able to get all the channels with this unless I point the dish at 2D?[:-))]

[Anton Redman II]

Astra 2A,2B and 2D are relatively close together at 28.2 East. Hotbird is at 28.5 but can be pickup with a dish alligned for the other three. Short answer no problem a properly aligned dish in France will receive all four.

[Martin963]

Sorry Coops,   didn't mean to worry you.

Anton has already re-assured you,  although he confuses Eurobird with Hotbird in his response;   (Hotbird is completely different and at 13 deg E but is used for Italian/Med/Arab etc broadcasts mainly so does not concern you).   Eurobird is at 28.5 deg E,  a compromise positioning after SES (Astra) and Eutelsat fought (literally) over the right to deploy satellites at the "British" hotspot of 28 deg E.

What I was (attempting to) drive at is that 2D (which normally one has no need to single out from 2A or 2B) has its skew set more obliquely than the others in the stable.    This is constantly denied by the operator but has been confirmed so often that it seems to be true.   So to REALLY optimise a set up that is only going to be used for BBC/ITV/c4/c5  (ie NOT a Sky set up) it's a good idea to optimise the skew of the LNB to the skew on 2D.    This *can* slightly diminish the signal from 2A/2B although often in mid to south France the decreasing power of 2D is offset by the more constant power (as one moves south) of 2A and 2B.   In other words one can afford to compromise 2A/2B to a certain extent in France because their signal holds up better the further south you go.

The EPG for Sky boxes is (IIRC) on 2A or 2B,   while the BBC's and other's actual *programmes* etc are mainly on 2D.   You see the potential need to compromise.....?

Confusingly,   the EPG for freesat is on Eurobird (and is operated by Arqiva and not Sky) and occasionally a set up that isn't quite optimised for Eurobird might give slight trouble on a freesat receiver which would be having trouble getting a clean signal for its EPG.

Wish I'd never mentioned it now!!

[cooperlola]

Phew![:D]

Don't tell anybody, but I've now lost my Canal+ signal (just in time to miss Spa[:@]).  I know the cause of this and can't do anything about it until Monday - it's a beggar not being able to get round the back of the telly myself.  Grrr.

[Martin963]

Wish I could record it for you Coops but we only have the "plages en clair" bits of C+.

Maybe someone will have recorder it...?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Martin963"]
Maybe someone will have recorder it...?
[/quote]No doubt one of my friends over on Club Arnage will help.  But it is typical - and only due (I think) to a poor L-Connector (is that what they're called?) at the back of the C+box.  I hate the stupid things - is that the best anybody can come up with in this day and age? 

[cooperlola]

Just an update for those kind people who helped out on this.

Today I finally got around to hooking up all my new kit.  Thus I now have one Skybox, 1 DVD recorder with built in Freesat, and 1 Canal + box all working fine.  What is really interesting is that the Freesat signal is much better than the one from the Skybox, thus my feeling is that probably the dish has been pointing in a less than optimum direction for some time.  What matters is that I can now do the "watch one and record another" thing as I'd hoped.  The DVD recorder is a truly demon piece of kit as it has 2 freesat inputs and will record two different programmes at one.  Stonking - shame it's been sitting in its box since Christmas.[:)]

[HoneySuckleDreams]

hello

just a quicky cooperola, what is the DVD recorder you are using? We would like to record stuff and I am just starting to investigate the technology a bit. I still need an HD source for the British TV and the SKY+ boxes won't work without a subscription. I thought about FreeSat+ HD but they seem to be quite expensive. So.... Ii can get a normal HD freesat box + external DVD recorder I will...just depends on the cost