Moving and extending the master phone socket

[friend of stouby]

We need to move the master phone socket about 5 m further away from it's current location.

The master socket has nothing plugged into it.

The single extension socket has both a phone and a livebox plugged into it.

The idea is to move the master socket to where the livebox, computer and desk is. To do this the incoming cable has to be extended.

So is there such a thing as a phone line connecting box or will a standard junction box with a set of connecting blocks do the job?

From the newly located master socket an extension lead will run back roughly toward the cable entry point to enable an extension box to be fitted, into this the FT phone will be connected.

The reason for placing the master phone socket near to the livebox and computer is having read that the modem should be connected to the master phone socket where ever possible, although I stand to be corrected on this.

We also have the fault that when the original FT phone line rings the link to the internet is immediately broken... every time.

Was hoping that by giving the modem first shot at the phone line this may not happen?

Very sorry for such a drawn out question, thanks.

[Âme]

Hello. Re: using the master socket for the Livebox...

We have a 'master' socket marked 'TEST'

Below this 'test' socket, there is another socket; an 'extension'.

I had the Livebox and phone plugged into the 'test' socket and nothing in the 'extension' and it all worked reliably, however...

When an FT engineer came to fix the line (a fault in the junction box in the village), he advised that nothing should be plugged into the 'test' socket because none of the 'extension' sockets work while the 'test' socket is occupied. Try it out with your sockets, it is certainly true for my installation, but perhaps they are not all the same.

As I understand it, in the event of a faulty line, FT will fix the fault if it is before or up to this 'test' socket: all extensions after that are the householders' responsibility... so be a little cautions about messing with the master. ;) 

In your situation, I would test to see whether the disconnection problem occurs when the Livebox and phone are plugged into the 'test' socket. If not, then the problem is with the extension i.e. your problem.  If the fault still occurs, I would then book an FT engineer to sort out the disconnection fault. You could also ask him/her about the optimum socket to connect the Livebox to. 

Hope that makes sense and is useful to you :)

[Danny]

FoS,

have you actually tested by having your livebox in this 'master' socket and called your FT number to see if this remedies the situation? Sounds to me like a faulty cable/connection somewhere.

In theory, there should be no real difference if you connect the livebox to any phone socket assuming the internal wiring is correct.

You do need ADSL filters in any other sockets that have a telephone connected to them in order for the ADSL to work properly.

If your single 'extension' has a phone and livebox plugged in via a telephone adapter, that may well be your problem. Or, if the phone is plugged in to the  back of the livebox plug i.e. in to the filter like the first set up picture in this page then it may be that this filter is faulty.

Danny

[friend of stouby]

Thanks for your thoughts Ame, but having checked the master socket there is no 'Test' marking.

On buying the house the master socket had a bell connected to it. It had the volume of an outside bell but inside! We couldn't take that for long and just pulled out the standard phone plug that the bell used to make connection to the socket.

The phone was on the extension, both worked normally.

The last FT engineer explained to us that our master socket was the master socket by pointing out the differences with the cover off of box the master and the extension sockets.

Both sockets are in the same room. We use a desktop as our main computer due to it's easy connectivity to all the peripherals, so not so easily moved. I will buy a longer ADSL cable to test the idea of one and then both untis being plugged into the master socket.

We are the last home in the hameau on the phone line, it ends at our house, and find the internet and live phone erratic. We have had FT/Orange in to check various symptons a number of times, and although they have found one or two items haven't made the service completely reliable (or put another way if we go for more than a day without a disconnection we remark on it), we are told it's as good as they can make it. We don't quite believe this but difficult to argue with an expert.

Finally, a couple of months ago we changed UK phone service provider to Talk Talk, the instructions for connecting the modem were very specific, put the modem on to the master socket.

Thank you again

[friend of stouby]

Hello Danny, thanks also for your comments.

No I haven't plugged the livebox into the master socket as yet, as mentioned above I'll get a longer ADSL cable and will do that when we return from the UK.

We have a filter fitted to the only socket in use, and as Orange always suggest on the phone that the filter is faulty we now have tried 4 new ones, we don't think they are all faulty?

The FT phone/modem is connected as per the first diagram in your link, with the phone plugged in the back of the filter.

As per the insistence from Talk Talk for our UK phone line system, my idea is to use the master socket for the livebox to try to create a more reliable internet and livephone, therefore the original question of is there a special connecting box (which isn't a phone socket) that will enable me to extend the master socket down the length on one wall.

Thank you for taking the trouble to answer

Jamie

[pachapapa]

The "test" socket which when used by FT is a new development; it simply when used disconnects the house extensions allowing FT to check their incoming line.

Older installations, the majority, will have a plastic box, inside a grey wire connected to No1 (top left) and a white wire connected to No3, any other wires are irrelevant unless you have a second line for a phone with a different number or perhaps a fax. If you do have this the incoming  FT wires will be connected to No6 and No8, bottom right.

The wiring to your telephone extension socket will have a cable with 8 coloured wires in it(4 pairs) but only two of the wires are actually necessary, in effect one wire connected to No1 on the entry box and the other end connected to No1 on the extension box; the second wire is similarly connected to No2 on the respective boxes.

It will make not the slightest difference as to which telephone connection box the Orange router-modem is connected to, other than that the use of a flexible multi-strand cable will have an insignificantly greater resistance.

 

[friend of stouby]

Thanks pachapapa.

That then allows for the entry box to be moved closer to the the point of entry, the FT phone located there using the entry box, and a new cable for a single extension to run diagonally across the room to be located next to the livebox and computer.

So each phone socket has one unit in each.

Just 2 further points. Is there a superior quality cable to use for the extension, and why would a telecoms provider such as Tak Talk insist on placing the modem at the entry box, is it different for the UK?

[pachapapa]

You have lost me, I assumed that you had telephone sockets with an old gigogne inverted T socket as in the diagram to which J&D referred. Why is there a need to move the entry box closer to the point of entry? The box (DTI) connected where the external FT line enters the house belongs to FT and is their final point of responsibility. If you change it in any way then FT will not be happy bunnies.

No idea about Tak Talk but it may be that a lot of houses have telephone wiring corresponding to an analogue system; certainly last year I noticed that the PSP3 was connected to the test socket of the FT box with the cover off; I was told that it would not work on any of the other phone sockets in the house. No one could explain why!  The quality of the cable wont make any difference for the short distance involved; the cable distance from your house to the local telephone exchange will make a difference but that is the domain of FT.

Puzzled! Why dont you use the VOIP telephone system included with your Orange LiveBox?

 

[friend of stouby]

OK here goes.

Bought new HD tv. Have read all over that the aerial lead and tv have to be as far from DECT phones as poss.

The entry phone socket is currently directly behind where new tv will be positioned.

For our use the entry phone socket is totally out of place, so decided to move it anyway, new tv just brought that process forward.

Current extension socket is the length of a wall away from the livebox, computer etc, so while moving the entry socket move the extension socket. Also the extension socket is only 1.5m away from site of new tv.

By moving both the layout will be much more convenient for us and I guess that's all part of it.

By setting up new eqipement in the UK recently and reading it is imperative to fit a modem to the entry phone socket I have to believe Talk Talk, I don't know better.

Which is where we came in with the reasoning that placing the entry socket close to where the livebox is would create a favourable situation in regard to an unreliable Orange livebox setup.

We use the Orange VOIP livebox as our main phone, but as it cuts about every 3rd or 4th call we can't rely entirely on that for comms, we have 4 very elderly relatives who feel comfortable with being able to phone us at any time. The FT phone system has never gone down.

Sorry it's so long winded but now you have all the detail.

Thanks for your interest, Jamie

[Danny]

It is not easy to  give you the best advice without seeing the cables/boxes/installation really but....

If it was me, I think I would leave the FT termination box (whatever it is like) as it is. From there, you can run an extension point to wherever is most convenient and another from that if you need it.

FT cable to your house consists of two little copper wires. These are connected to connectors 1 and 3 of the phone point. To join up another phone point you use a cable with two wires (grey/white normally) which are also connected to points 1 and 3 of this phone point and go to points 1 and 3 of the next phone point.

If you only want one extension then using a longer piece of cable to one phone point seems easiest. If there are any other wires in the cables, they are not used.

Here is a little picture - speaks a thousand words etc...

If you have a condenser in any box or the FT termination point/box - usually black or brown or tan thing with 2 or 3 wires - you need to remove it as it can disturb the quality of the ADSL signal.

http://www.dslvalley.com/dossiers/condensateur/condensateur.php

Danny

[pachapapa]

Still lost but a quick reply but first Talk Talk is not relevant, forget it. In france after 2-3 kilometres of FT phone cable hanging in the wind and wet, the placing of your Orange LiveBox 5 metres closer at the end of the line will not make any difference. The frequent dropping of an ADSL Box is more likely to be a line fault causing intermittent contact.

When FT install a telephone the sub contractor will install TWO phone sockets one close to the entry box into the house and another according to the preference of the subscriber. If you require another socket then the most sensible thing to do is to buy some cable and a bog standard telephone socket and connect it to the nearest of the TWO existing telephone sockets, just like a daisy chain. You then have THREE telephone sockets and you use two of them. A DECT phone has an independent power supply so the power available on the telephone is not so important. No need to go diagonal with the telephone cable just go round the walls on the plinth or whatever.Really no limit to the number, in new houses they put telephone sockets in every room except the bathroom. And I'm talking RJ45 sockets at € 25 a socket.

The last bloke with an SFR Box problem showed there was nothing wrong inside the house but following the incoming cable back to the FT Box on the telegraph pole revealed that both incoming cables were corroded at the contacts and one was broken due to waving around with the wind; cleaned up and a couple of dominos later and it will be good for another ten years.

In cold, icy,snowy weather the FT national network becomes fragile and repetitive drop out of ADSL Boxes can occur.Not much one can do but pray for warm weather!

[Department71]

Depends if there is a connector box on the outside of the property where the line from the pole connects up with the cable entering the house I might consider looking at the phone cable coming into the house, and if I could buy the same type that FT use I would replace the old cable from the outside box for the new one and extend this, the master could then be fitted at the end of the new run. This could bypass the old cherry of FT fixing anything before the master socket.

May not be the way you are supposed to do it but....

Steve

[friend of stouby]

Thanks again to pachapapa and steve for your inputs, it all helps.

pachapapa, you are 'still lost'. What you do want me to explain if anything?

I'm here looking for advice from people generous enough to give their time. As this is not my speciality, ask me to explain the parts that you don't understand, it's the least I can do.

The idea of looking at the connections from the pole onwards is a good idea, again when we get back from the UK.

steve, the thought had crossed my mind re replacing the cable running from the box where it attaches to the end of the house to the master socket, especially as someone has rendered over about 1.5m of it.

Thanks

[pachapapa]

The external cable is worth checking, it often is brittle on the exterior plastic due to UV light. The box with the heavier gauge wiring from the telephone post will be on the house wall or attached to a roof timber, the lighter cable coming from the house may be weakened due to the wind whipping the cable. Inside the box are two green plastic connections, they look like small snails with the the cables entering them, partial failure of the connection is often close to where the lighter cable enters the hole in the green plastic snail.