Using UK mobile over Wi-Fi in France

[canard]

Hi all, trying to find more information on this. Orange UK provide a service called UMA (unlicensed mobile access) on certain smartphones which allow you to make and receive calls over Wi-Fi. It's primarily to cover areas where they have poor signal but it also works abroad.

The calls come out of your monthly minutes and can be made or received on your mobile over a Wi-Fi network. This is not VoiP (like SKYPE) because you make and receive calls as normal i.e. SOMEONE IN UK CALLS YOUR UK MOBILE AND YOU ANSWER IN FRANCE BUT NEITHER OF YOU PAY INTERNATIONAL CALL CHARGES.

As you can tell I'm getting quite clued up on this but Vodafone offer a similar service using femtocells, branded as 'sure signal' which is only available in the UK. What I want to know is, does anyone know if I could use Vodafone Sure Signal in France using a proxy server?

Many thanks for any answers and apologies to those that find it too technical.

[Théière]

From memory you can get a number that people can dial which directs you via Skype or just set your Skype account to route your calls to you mobile neither of which will use any minutes.

[canard]

Thanks for the reply. I was looking to bypass SKYPE/VoiP.

These services are branded as Sure Signal (vodafone) and Signal Boost (orange). Has anyone else any experience of trying these UK services in France?

[Richardbk]

Yes it exists. E.g with orange it is call unik - see here http://www.dslvalley.com/adsl/telephonie/unik-orange.php

there is something similar with SFR. I suspect however they are not compatible with uk contracts. Even orange uk and orange FR don't seem to have reciprocal or seamless services :(

[canard]

I just want to use a UK mobile on a UK contract over my Wi-Fi in France. I believe this is possible and entirely legal with the Orange UK UMA/Signal Boost feature but may not be possible with Vodafone's Sure Signal.

A french version will not help me as it'd be a French contract and French phone number so I'd still be racking up international call charges between UK and France.

UMA on a UK Orange contract effectively gives free (or very cheap) calls between UK and France for anyone that has broadband without relying on SKYPE/VoiP.

hope it's alright to copy and paste this link here which gives more info, or just google. It sounds too good to be true..

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/realworld/360523/uma-routing-your-blackberry-calls-over-wi-fi

[Quillan]

OK the simplest answer is you can't do what you want to do with your equipment.

If you want to use the Orange Unik offer you have to use one of their specific phones and one of their SIM's with a corresponding package and software. The following links are direct from Orange and in French (you can use the Google translator if you don't speak/read French). I had this system originally but never got it to connect outside my home, it was only then that I discovered the great lack in actual 'Hot Spots' that support this system. There are two in Quillan, both inside hotels which are in grounds which means you won't pick up the signal out on the road so you have to enter the grounds or the hotel. One of the hotels has turned theirs off now as they got fed up with people hanging around not buying anything but using their mobiles. I gave up in the end and dumped the package and just have an SFR phone on a really cheap monthly package and high call rate charges as I hardly ever make any call's, I just recieve them via call forward from my normal home number if not at home.

General Unik Info (second block down)

List of Orange compatible phones

Quite frankly you would be better off (as in much, much less hassle) buying a PAYG phone from somewhere like LeClerc or get hold of an unlocked phone and buy just the SIM from them.

[canard]

Thanks for all the answers guys but just to confirm I'm not asking about a French contract. I don't want the French orange or SFR system.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself very well but orange UK offer UMA branded as 'sure signal' which routes mobile calls through Wi-Fi in areas of poor mobile reception. The system also works abroad through Wi-Fi so anyone with the correct orange (UK) smartphone and contract can make and receive calls over their wifi (even when abroad) without incurring roaming charges.

So it's not a French contract or system I'm proposing but a UK contract with a UK firm.

Now I know the orange system will work like this but has anyone used a vodafone femtocell via a proxy server to obtain a similar service?

Apologies again for not making myself clearer. A quick google of orange UMA (on google.co.uk) should explain much better than I can.

[Quillan]

Femcell technology connects a special box to your existing router then your mobile phone connects to that box via GSM which then sends the signal to your router which connects you to the GSM network. In essence it's a mini mobile phone GSM base station designed for office and home use giving around a 50m range. Each phone has to be registered with the actual Femcell box which is unique to your own router in your house or office so I am not too sure that you use it in a 'roaming' situation. Have you actually done this in the UK as I can't find any information about 'roaming' using other femcell box's other than the one you install in your home or office?

Both Orange and SFR offer a different system in France. The phones use pure WiFi which is why you require specific phones and a specific SIM card which contains extra information your phone needs to make the call and make the appropriate charges if there are any. For instance if you have a one hour free call tariff after the hour is used you are charged regardless if you are using the phone normally or via it's WiFi connection. This is why you have to buy their setup.

It's not a way of getting cheap calls simply using the phone in areas of poor reception. experience has also shown me that in rural areas where your least likely to get a signal you are also more likely to struggle in getting 512kb data transfer let alone 1mb and you need a minimum of 1mb to use this system.

The OP will know this but for others you may find the following interesting.

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/reviews/sme-routers/2010/07/01/vodafone-sure-signal-inside-a-femtocell-40089380/

http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mobile-accessories/vodafone-sure-signal

 

 

[AnOther]

It seems that Sure Signal will (probably !) not work over a proxy server but in any case using it abroad is a violation of the T&C's

http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Vodafone-Sure-Signal/Using-sure-signal-behind-corporate-proxy-server/td-p/341608

http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Vodafone-Sure-Signal/Sure-Signal-using-abroad-VPN-connection-back-to-the-UK/m-p/855127#M16635

Apparently it does not work with all routers even in the UK.

http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Vodafone-Sure-Signal/Working-Routers-List/m-p/267855#M690

Methinks you seek the Holy Grail - AKA Scotch Mist [blink]

[canard]

Thanks Quillan. The different system in France offered by Orange and SFR is also offered in UK by Orange. They call it signal boost over there.

It's available on most blackberries but not on the iPhone.

As well as using it in areas of poor reception it can also be used abroad as long as you have a good broadband signal. Many business in cities use it where their mobile signal is blocked by buildings but they have access to high speed broadband.

I've got 2 Meg broadband in rural France with Wi Max so hopefully that's enough though I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with personal experience.

Ive got a contract phone in UK anyway so it'd save me lots if I could use my inclusive minutes without incurring roaming charges.

[canard]

Thanks for the response.

The 2 different technologies are Vodafone's Sure Signal which uses Femtocells and Orange's Signal Boost which uses UMA.

'roaming' refers to charges made on a UK contract when mobile is used abroad. If it was possible to use the Vodafone system abroad I would install the UK Femtocell in my French house and when using my UK mobile I would not incur 'roaming' (international) charges. I understand this may be outside the terms and conditions of Vodafone UKs contract but I wanted to know if anyone had achieved this using a proxy server.

This system will not work in different wifi hotspots as Quillan pointed out.

The UK orange UMA system is the same as the system offered by SFR and Orange in Francewill work through any wifi hotspot. Most blackberry phones support UMA and several other smartphones but not iPhone.

I've read many testimonials online from people who have used their UMA phone and contract abroad to bypass international 'roaming' charges.

Since I have a UK contract and broadband in France I see no reason why I cannot use UMA to make and receive calls while in France from my UK mobile inclusive minutes provided I have a compatible orange phone and contract.

While both systems are primarily to boost signals in areas of poor coverage, a happy by product of UMA is the provision of 'free' calls abroad.

[Quillan]

If your going to install ADSL in your French home, which you would do if you wanted to run this type of system, then in someways it's a bit academic because your more likely to go with a package which includes free international calls anyway. Most of these packages, like Orange (France) for example, seem to offer better value for money than those offered in the UK in that there is no restrictions on number of hours used and time of day or days of the week and you don't pay for the line rental.

[canard]

Sorry for double post (blooming iPhones!)

AnOther, the 'holy grail' is already available via Orange UK as UMA, or so it seems. Using a Femtocell abroad via a proxy server is against the Vodafone Ts and Cs, it doesn't mean no one's ever tried it!

[AnOther]

Well it all sounds technically feasible however realising it in practice might be a different ball game [geek]

Lots of authoritative info here:

http://stevehanov.ca/blog/index.php?id=38

http://stevehanov.ca/blog/index.php?id=2

http://stevehanov.ca/blog/index.php?id=4

etc.

Good luck and glad it's not my problem is all I can say [:D]

[canard]

Quillan, I've got no fixed phone line in France, broadband via WiMax (very pleased so far!) and since I've got a UK mobile contract which I need to keep it would be cheaper for me to use my existing inclusive minutes over UMA than to subscribe to the WiMax phone package or another provider.

[Richardbk]

OK, I see what you want to do ... The only way I see is to install the Sure Signal box on your broadband in france (as this provides the "Vodaphone" GSM to wifi bridge, but my understanding is that vodaphone check the connecting IP address - and perhaps will block non-uk IP addresses - doh ! . If so to get round this you'd need to have a permanent router to router VPN connection to somewhere in the UK and the Sure Signal VPN (to vodaphone servers) would run over the top. You should set the VPN connection to only take the sure signal traffic, otherwise the rest of your internet would run slow. Also with VPN running over VPN not sure how is this would be terribly efficient. I have heard previously that the sure signal VPN connection is not that reliable, although perhaps now it has improved. There are various routers that will provide an end to end VPN including netgear and draytel - you'd need one at both ends.

[Richardbk]

BTW SFR provide the exact same box, BUT of course it is connected to the SFR servers and your phone will be seen as "Roaming" as it will be seeing an "SFR" GSM signal.

[canard]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Here's a quote from one of the blogs AnOther linked to...

"In reality, carrier's aren't all that concerned about this yet. It seems like, for the time being, you can get free long distance using this method. It makes sense for the carriers to extend their UMA service abroad, because otherwise you would simply be benefiting a foreign network.

Here's an ideal scheme: Suppose you have a lot of family in the US, but you live in the UK. So you go to the US, sign up for UMA service from T-Mobile, and they give you a handset and an access point. Say thanks, and then go back home. Plug that AP into your existing broadband internet, and you can now make calls to the US at local rates. This assumes that your Internet bandwidth is cheap, however."

Sounds like the UK Orange system will work just fine. If I try it out I'll post some feedback here. In the meantime if anyone has any more info I'd love to here it.

[Richardbk]

As said above orange Uk UMA should work globally. There is a YouTube video of some chap using it in Peru.