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Linux - maybe it's just me


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I mentioned earlier that I was taking the plunge and trying Linux....

Well  I'm sure that there are people who find it great,  and I have REALLY tried to love it (because it isn't Gates) but.....

I'm now going to have to go out and buy a new Windows computer as I just CANNOT get on with it.

Reasons

Several of my best loved (and sometimes recommended here) programs won't work with it,  eg Radio Downloader (Nerd of the Herd)

I hate the "common menus" - as opposed to menus on each open window.

I hate the lack of a tool bar that shows me what's open and allows me to switch between programs quickly and easily.

I hate the way it doesn't tell me what's wrong,  but just gives up.

I hate the on line helps which are written by geeks who are only interested in "compiling"   (what ever that is).

In its favour it runs very fast and I don't need ZoneAlarm or Avast,   but hey they work OK with Windows....

I have honestly tried,   but failed.   At least it's only cost me £150 because I already had a spare HDD.

Bottom line - others may not agree but unless you are border line geeky then it's best to stick with Windows.

Written with sadness,   but that's my experience.

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As you may know I am a confirmed Linux user.

I use Ubuntu 11.10.

Without getting into 'wars' between fans of each system (I also use Windows 7 sometimes too) I can say that I don't recognise much of your description.

1) I don't understand what you mean by "common menus"

2) There is a tool bar down the side of the desktop which 't shows me what's open and allows me to switch between programs quickly and easily.'

3) It rarely goes wrong, but when it does it file a bug report which I can consult and follow a link to a Forum where solutions are suggested.

4) "At least it's only cost me £150 because I already had a spare HDD."  Linux is FREE as are all the programmes. You just download and install.

I agree that some Windows programmes don't work on Linux, but most have a Linux equivalent freely available.

Some example Google Chrome  Google Earth Skype etc, LibreOffice and so on.

I use freetuxtv instead of adsltv, and Pidgin instead of Msn and yahoo messengers.

The main problem I have with Linux is that my Lexmark printer isn't compatible, but that comes from Lexmark who don't allow their drivers to be used by Linux..

I am sorry that you have had a bad experience, but what puzzles me is the fact that I don't share it in most of the details you give.

Nor do you need to buy a new computer. Just buy the windows OS and install it, after uninstalling Linux, or install it alongside

I have both on my computer on a 'double boot'

When I start I have a first screen that gives me the option to choose which OS I wish to use for that session, and I choose according to what I am going to be doing.

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Thanks Norman,  and maybe there are things I'm missing....

Common menus - things like FILE EDIT VIEW - on Windows they all are present on the top bar in each Window that's open,  whereas with Linux there only seems to be a single shared set (top LHS of the screen) which applies only to the Window "at the top of the pile" as it were.   I know it's partly habit,   but I like the Windows way where you can jump around from application to application and not keep having to remember to go to the very  top left side to do anything.

The bar down my left side seems to be a launchpad rather than a status bar.    If I (say) write something in Thunderbird there'd be a compose bar open in Windows task bar as well as my Inbox bar,   whereas with Linux I have to go looking for the Write window again if I refer back to the Inbox page,  and in mine it gets hidden....  There seems no way to get it back easily if it gets buried under other windows.

In my case it's that programs (such as Radio Downloader which to me is vital) haven't installed properly,   but when the icon is clicked there's a whirring but no message to say "no can do".   It would be nice to have confirmation of inability!

You do raise a point about using the new computer as a Windows machine by buying the software.   Maybe that's the best option,  I was going to put it to one side and start again.   What I meant is that the new hardware + cost of installation of Ubuntu by our local computer boffin (£30 which is not unreasonable) was £150.   I supplied a spare HDD at pre Thailand flood prices.

I'll look into your excellent suggestion.   Thanks.    Might even try and use an old Windows 98 disc we have for a computer long since perished.

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Martin, you are in NE Perigord, so cannot be too far from me. If you want help for free or just to see how Ubuntu can run then send me a PM and I'll help as much as I can. It sounds like you may feel more at home using the Gnome desktop rather than Unity on Ubuntu, it is a bit more windows like.

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Martin, if you are not a techie type person and just want to use a computer and you have not had problems before with using Windows then stick with what you know and feel comfortable with. I would say the same to anyone who is happy with their PC operating system.

To be honest when I read the comments it reminded me of the TV advert for the Golf car "listen to that door close, it's sounds just like a Golf" etc, etc. It sounds to me your looking for something that looks and 'feels' like Windows but it isn't.

Having read the recent posts in other threads I also tried Linux on an old laptop and had similar problems to what you described. If I had found all the equivalent software to do the things I use my PC for then I would have persevered with it but because I couldn't I gave up just like you.

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To continue Quillan's car metaphor I think that Windows 7 is a bit like one of those ultra modern cars where almost everything has to be done by the garage because it is controlled by a computer, whereas Ubuntu is like the Morris 1000 and Rover I had in the 70s where I could do everything myself with the aid of a Haynes manual.

Another comparison would be between going into the Office of a French administration and being told what to do (Windows) and coming to this Forum and getting advice from other users who have worked out ways round the problem (Linux)

A few specific replies:

Martin

I think the key to Martin's dissatisfaction lies in the fact that he had someone else install Linux. The main joy to me of the system are that I can get back control, and customise it as I wish. On Windows7 I often feel that the system is deciding things for me, in that it puts folders where it wants, and has its own logic.

Linux does require you to organise things as you wish.

"Common menus - things like FILE EDIT VIEW - on Windows they all are present on the top bar in each Window that's open"

On Ubuntu they are present in the thin black strip at the very top of the screen if you touch it with the cursor.

"
The bar down my left side seems to be a launchpad rather than a status bar. "  yes it is a launchpad, but just by brushing the cursor against the LH edge of the screen it shows over the Window you are using and you can click back to the other programme that you have open.

Radio Downloader is not Linux compatible, so can't have installed.

There is another programme to do something of the sort called  get iplayer   http://www.infradead.org/get_iplayer/html/get_iplayer.html

I haven't used it or installed it myself.

Quillan

Apart from the printer problem I have described I haven't found a programme I use regularly which hasn't got a Linux equivalent, although some of them have weird and wonderful  names [:)]

Which Windows programme couldn't you find?

BobT

I have installed the Gnome desktop as an option on Ubuntu 11.10

press Ctrl – Alt – T to open Terminal. When terminal opens, type the commands below to install Gnome Session Fallback.
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback

On log in you have a screen with a cog wheel next to where you type in your password. If you click on that cog you have the choice between various desktops

http://www.liberiangeek.net/2011/08/return-to-ubuntu-classic-desktop-in-ubuntu-11-10/

You even have the choice of 2D ubuntu for  graphics cards which don't support Unity.

Everybody

This site is excellent for explaining how to install Ubuntu with screenshots of all the stage, and explains the various desktops you can find

http://deviceguru.com/ubuntu-11-10-without-shell-shock/

I am well aware that not everybody will like Linux/Ubuntu.

I go between systems as needed, but would be sorry to see people give up for lack of simple information.

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Not wanting to hijack the thread, but would you mind if I sent it on a branch line for a moment or two? 

Does Linux have a reliable, easy-to-understand program which successfully emulates DNLA ?

I have a server which refuses to be recognized by my house-full of things which purport to act like media players (Robert's internet radio - (and what a disappointment that is) Panasonic TV, Oky surround box etc) but don't, and I suspect the common thread is the server and the Win7/visa collection of machines on the network.

I find the whole business of networks and getting them to work seamlessly is one of the dark arts: it's certainly some form of magic. Has anyone ever managed to crack it with Linux?

p

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I'm dismayed that you spent £150 on getting Linux installed, there was no reason for it to have cost even 1c, what exactly was that for and what was your motivation in trying it ?

Perhaps not in Martins exact words but I have to say that Linux is still too geeky for mainstream use and involves too much of learning curve only to end up with something which still won't necessarily do what you want. I guess it's like a lot of things, first decide what you want to do then use the hardware/software combination appropriate for the task but I'm afraid for me that formula will never equal Linux. If you just want to surf or write a few emails or documents then it's fine but if you want more it's a non starter.

I've dallied with it many times out of little more than curiosity but it's rarely made it past a day of so before I've got bored with it or fed up with trying to make it do even a few of the things I am intimately familiar with achieving in Windows and the bottom line is that I'm happy with Windows so have no legitimate need of it anyway. In some ways I actually regard it as step back as being essentially a text driven OS it harks back to the days of DOS and the command line (but less user friendly!) and I got bored with that many many years ago.

Promoting Linux as an alternative to Windows simply on the basis that it is free and largely (but not wholly) virus and malware free, as many seem to, is really doing those who have little idea about these things no service at all.

Basically if people took the time to learn how to look after Windows and do proper backups to get them out of trouble (imaging to be specific) then 99% of the argument for any alternative OS, be that Linux or any another, would fall at the first hurdle.

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[quote user="NormanH"]BobT
I have installed the Gnome desktop as an option on Ubuntu 11.10

press Ctrl – Alt – T to open Terminal. When terminal opens, type the commands below to install Gnome Session Fallback.
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback



[/quote]

I rest my case [;-)]

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Just to clear the financial side up,  the hardware (a bare bones computer,  no HDD/disc writers etc) was £129.

The actual installation of Linux was £25 + VAT.   Our local boffin does a very good job on this score in that the computer is ready for Linux action,  with a lot of useful programs installed (provided one knows what to look for of course).    

Whilst I respect Norman's technical prowess,   I wouldn't know where to start to install Linux,  and as I say I've not seen a Help file/site for Linux that hasn't plunged straight into DOS-type speak.   

But there's the rub,  many of my favourite programs for Windows have been carefully chosen over many years (often by recommendations on this very forum,  eg Any Audio Converter from Danny),  and using something that's "nearly as good" but not quite is a complete pain.

I'm looking into the Windows parallel install option,   and the local boffin is coming for a "visite offerte" to try and tweek Ubuntu to my needs.

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[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="NormanH"]BobT

I have installed the Gnome desktop as an option on Ubuntu 11.10

press Ctrl – Alt – T to open Terminal. When terminal opens, type the commands below to install Gnome Session Fallback.
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback

[/quote]

I rest my case [;-)]

[/quote]

That instruction is no more complicated than using CMD on windows..

And it installs a range of 5 different possible desktops

That instruction is no more complicated than using CMD on windows..

And it installs a range of 5 different possible desktops

In any case you are not being entirely fair [:)]

That was addressed to BobT who is an expert in Linux

If I had been writing for someone else I might have said

" Press CTL+ALT+T simultaneously and a little screen will pop up

copy and paste

sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback

into the screen, type in your password when prompted, then restart the computer."

I don't think that is more complicated than configuring some  Windows programmes.

See Chancer's problem with the windows toolbar

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2655891/ShowPost.aspx

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[quote user="Bob T"]Martin, you are in NE Perigord, so cannot be too far from me. If you want help for free or just to see how Ubuntu can run then send me a PM and I'll help as much as I can. It sounds like you may feel more at home using the Gnome desktop rather than Unity on Ubuntu, it is a bit more windows like.

[/quote]

Thanks Bob.  I did in fact reply to your PM a couple of weeks ago - problem is we're in soggy Devon at present (and it really is so soggy that words fail to describe how grey and miserable it is) but thanks for the offer.

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[quote user="Martin963"]Just to clear the financial side up,  the hardware (a bare bones computer,  no HDD/disc writers etc) was £129.

The actual installation of Linux was £25 + VAT.   Our local boffin does a very good job on this score in that the computer is ready for Linux action,  with a lot of useful programs installed (provided one knows what to look for of course).    

Whilst I respect Norman's technical prowess,   I wouldn't know where to start to install Linux,  and as I say I've not seen a Help file/site for Linux that hasn't plunged straight into DOS-type speak.   

But there's the rub,  many of my favourite programs for Windows have been carefully chosen over many years (often by recommendations on this very forum,  eg Any Audio Converter from Danny),  and using something that's "nearly as good" but not quite is a complete pain.

I'm looking into the Windows parallel install option,   and the local boffin is coming for a "visite offerte" to try and tweek Ubuntu to my needs.

[/quote]

You can use Wubi to install Linux as if it were just another Windows programme..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-BZrfzKHtc&feature=related

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[quote user="Gyn_Paul"]Not wanting to hijack the thread, but would you mind if I sent it on a branch line for a moment or two? 

Does Linux have a reliable, easy-to-understand program which successfully emulates DNLA ?

I have a server which refuses to be recognized by my house-full of things which purport to act like media players (Robert's internet radio - (and what a disappointment that is) Panasonic TV, Oky surround box etc) but don't, and I suspect the common thread is the server and the Win7/visa collection of machines on the network.

I find the whole business of networks and getting them to work seamlessly is one of the dark arts: it's certainly some form of magic. Has anyone ever managed to crack it with Linux?

p

[/quote]

I haven't enough experience with networks to give a proper answer.

I have a freebox and freebox player with are connected by CP plugs.

I also have a netbook connected by wifi and two other computers connected to the Freebox by ethernet.

All run on Linux, but my main computer has a Windows partition as well as the Linux one.

I also have two external hard disks connected to the main computer by usb

I can access all from the main computer. I tend to keep media files on the Freebox from which I can play them directly, with back ups on the external drives, from which I could also pay them directly

This is what I see as my network on my main Linux computer

[IMG]http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/bfb_album/Screenshotat2011-12-31112431.png[/IMG]

This may be just waffle that doesn't answer your question, but as I said at the beginning I have little experience with networks

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[quote user="NormanH"]To continue Quillan's car metaphor I think that Windows 7 is a bit like one of those ultra modern cars where almost everything has to be done by the garage because it is controlled by a computer, whereas Ubuntu is like the Morris 1000 and Rover I had in the 70s where I could do everything myself with the aid of a Haynes manual.

Another comparison would be between going into the Office of a French administration and being told what to do (Windows) and coming to this Forum and getting advice from other users who have worked out ways round the problem (Linux)

A few specific replies:
Martin

I think the key to Martin's dissatisfaction lies in the fact that he had someone else install Linux. The main joy to me of the system are that I can get back control, and customise it as I wish. On Windows7 I often feel that the system is deciding things for me, in that it puts folders where it wants, and has its own logic.

Linux does require you to organise things as you wish.

"Common menus - things like FILE EDIT VIEW - on Windows they all are present on the top bar in each Window that's open"
On Ubuntu they are present in the thin black strip at the very top of the screen if you touch it with the cursor.

"
The bar down my left side seems to be a launchpad rather than a status bar. "  yes it is a launchpad, but just by brushing the cursor against the LH edge of the screen it shows over the Window you are using and you can click back to the other programme that you have open.
Radio Downloader is not Linux compatible, so can't have installed.
There is another programme to do something of the sort called  get iplayer   http://www.infradead.org/get_iplayer/html/get_iplayer.html

I haven't used it or installed it myself.

Quillan
Apart from the printer problem I have described I haven't found a programme I use regularly which hasn't got a Linux equivalent, although some of them have weird and wonderful  names [:)]
Which Windows programme couldn't you find?

BobT
I have installed the Gnome desktop as an option on Ubuntu 11.10

press Ctrl – Alt – T to open Terminal. When terminal opens, type the commands below to install Gnome Session Fallback.
sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback




On log in you have a screen with a cog wheel next to where you type in your password. If you click on that cog you have the choice between various desktops
http://www.liberiangeek.net/2011/08/return-to-ubuntu-classic-desktop-in-ubuntu-11-10/
You even have the choice of 2D ubuntu for  graphics cards which don't support Unity.

Everybody

This site is excellent for explaining how to install Ubuntu with screenshots of all the stage, and explains the various desktops you can find

http://deviceguru.com/ubuntu-11-10-without-shell-shock/


I am well aware that not everybody will like Linux/Ubuntu.
I go between systems as needed, but would be sorry to see people give up for lack of simple information.

[/quote]

Now Norman all I was saying was that if he is happy with Windows why change? No way was I putting Linux down in my post but as you have commented on what I posted I will answer.

Windows and it's applications is installed in to particular folders (used to be directories) because it likes to keep things in specific places BUT you can change this by using the 'advanced' option when installing. For most people, probably around 85% of users, where the files go is of no interest for them, they just want whatever they have installed to work.

Going back to cars, wheels generally go on each corner, you don't have a choice when you buy one to say where the wheels should go and anyway it works and that's all people want. Having to say where files go is a pain for many users, they just want to run the setup program and when it's finished doing whatever it does to just use the program they have installed. Also if they just put files wherever they want it makes it difficult for a third party to try and fix any problems because they have to work out how the installer has installed the software.

Software, I have some software written in visual basic using a Access database for my B&B, I doubt there is an equivalent for it to run under Linux. I use MS Excel and Project Manager quite a bit and have done for many years. I know how to use it, why should I learn another piece of software to do the same job. I have specific software to rip DVD's exactly how I want, it took me a while to learn it and get the output dead right for me. I like Internet Explorer, I tried Crome and didn't like it, I am happy with IE so why should I change. Yes there are equivalents for some of this stuff for Linux and yes it may well be free but why should I bin what I am happy with and have to learn something else.

I am not a fan of Microsoft but it works and it does, coupled with the programs I use, work for me. All I was saying was that if the OP feels the same way about learning new programs that do the same as he already has then why change?

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[quote user="Gyn_Paul"]Not wanting to hijack the thread, but would you mind if I sent it on a branch line for a moment or two? 
Does Linux have a reliable, easy-to-understand program which successfully emulates DNLA ?
I have a server which refuses to be recognized by my house-full of things which purport to act like media players (Robert's internet radio - (and what a disappointment that is) Panasonic TV, Oky surround box etc) but don't, and I suspect the common thread is the server and the Win7/visa collection of machines on the network.
I find the whole business of networks and getting them to work seamlessly is one of the dark arts: it's certainly some form of magic. Has anyone ever managed to crack it with Linux?

p
[/quote]

Can you be a bit more specific, what is the server and what operating system is it running.

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A little late in this conversation but the OP stated that he had tried Linux and then there was a lot of lists of dont like. It would seem more accurate to say he had tried one flavour of linux, probably Ubuntu with the Unity desktop, but there are so many variants built on top of the linux base system that I am sure everyone could find a flavour to suite. If you dont want to spend the time and are happy with windows then remain where you are - its all about choice really. I chose linux about 8yrs ago as I was fed up with XP slowness and having to pay - or use illegal copies - of software to get what I wanted done.Happy now !
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I don't think it is ever too late to join  a discussion of this nature, to which there is no definitive right answer.

In any case people will always use what they are happy with.

I am no prosylite. If people are happy with Windows I have no problem with that.

I would just regret seeing some one give up on Linux if it was based on problems which could easily be solved.

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I'm prettyt agnostic when it comes to operating systems. I currently own 2 Windows XP lap-tops, an OS-X Mac, an android tablet and a Linux netbook. In the past I've also had brushes with Amiga-DOS, Apple II, PDP11, MS DOS, DR DOS, and every version of Windows since W3.0, all used for earning money. I sold my Vista desktop a couple of months ago.....

Currently at work I'm in a Windows 7 environment and for my purposes see no advantage in switching at home. Once I stop working in a Windows-centric profession I intend to give Linux a thorough try-out as a home system -- desktop, media server and suchlike. This is largely because I want to try and get some control over my machines rather than being at the mercy of every fashion idea that comes out of Redmond.

For example, I've been using MS Access for the last 18 years in all its versions since Office 2, including mission critical projects for major multinational clients. The massive user-interface changes of Office 2007 put my productivity back considerably for a while and there are still things I hate about it.

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Just a quick update

The local boffin came over this afternoon and installed Gnome - recommending Gnome Classic as the best version.   And I must say I feel far happier in that "environment",  and it's a comfort to know that I can return to that if Ubuntu becomes too much for me.   He did give me some tips for the latter,  such as the "super" key and Alt-Tab,  and also how to resize thumbnails and icons which is frankly brilliant!

He also explained how to get "get iplayer" to work,   OK I have to type in some DOS like commands but it's not impossible and it does what I want fairly easily.

So thanks also to you lot as well for your help,  particularly Norman for getting me to stick with it.   For the moment I really can live without Windows I believe.

Which gives me a nice warm feeling...!

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[quote user="Martin963"]Just a quick update

The local boffin came over this afternoon and installed Gnome - recommending Gnome Classic as the best version.   And I must say I feel far happier in that "environment",  and it's a comfort to know that I can return to that if Ubuntu becomes too much for me.   He did give me some tips for the latter,  such as the "super" key and Alt-Tab,  and also how to resize thumbnails and icons which is frankly brilliant!

He also explained how to get "get iplayer" to work,   OK I have to type in some DOS like commands but it's not impossible and it does what I want fairly easily.

So thanks also to you lot as well for your help,  particularly Norman for getting me to stick with it.   For the moment I really can live without Windows I believe.

Which gives me a nice warm feeling...!

[/quote]

Yes Gnome Classic is one I use on my netbook

As I said in a post above it is easy to install:

Press CTL+ALT+T simultaneously and a little screen will pop up

copy and paste

sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback

into that screen and type your password when prompted.

After just re-start the computer.

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Glad you got something you feel you can work with, however Gnome Classic or Gnome 2, as is known is not going to be further developed as the Gnome developers have moved onto Gnome 3 which is a little different to get used to.

If you have Ubuntu installed on your computer, as I suspect you have, then at the login screen where you type your password there is a little "cog type thing" to the upper right of the sign in box and if you click on this you have a choice of what window manager you use for that session.

There should be Ubuntu, which is in fact Unity window manager the one that Ubuntu are pushing, Gnome fallback, which is Gnome 2 and Gnome which is in fact Gnome 3. The computer is still running the linux operating system but its your interface with it that you can change.

Have fun and experiment, personally I like gnome 3, welcome to the free world of GNU/Linux.
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Welcome to the world of open-source software!

I personally quite dislike the Gnome deskop environment, and Gnome3 particularly so. My desktop of choice is KDE, currently at KDE4, which I've been using for the past 10 years or so. I would contend that it is far closer to Windows than any of the other (it even has a "Redmond" theme), and therefore is the most suitable for users transferring from 'doze. (As before, alt-F2, "apt-get install kde-full", and choose kde at log-on).

You should have Synaptic in your applications menu (possibly called "Package Manager") which which provides a graphical interface to apt-get and friends. Might be easier than the alt-F2 magic.

This is part of the attraction of open-source software: you can pick and choose amongst the components until you find a combination that you're most comfortable with. Beyond that, you can usually customise that environment to your heart's content. You'll  find, as you become more accustomed to the system, you'll become "braver" and want to experiment more, something that Microsoft positively discourages!

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