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Astra 2F Discussion Here Please!


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Don't abandon hope Gardian.    Yes it's possible you might have to shell out for a bigger dish (what is your present one?) but if that's the case it's then going to see you through another ten years.   And if you go up to 1 m (and they are not ruinously expensive) I'd suggest mounting it on a ground pole (too much windage up high unless it's a really secure install) in which case the installation is doable by people (like me!) with only basic DIY skills.

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I have been browsing round the Spanish forums. It seems they either know something we don't or are in denial. Somebody said that the same programs are transmitted by Astra 1 and Astra 2A, B and C so they won't be affected! This was from a guy who presents himself as THE expert on the subject in Spain. I think we get more clever experts in France personally and they seem to know what they are talking about but that is only my opinion of course. [;-)]
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Don't abandon hope Gardian.    Yes it's possible you might have to shell out for a bigger dish (what is your present one?) but if that's the case it's then going to see you through another ten years.   And if you go up to 1 m (and they are not ruinously expensive) I'd suggest mounting it on a ground pole (too much windage up high unless it's a really secure install) in which case the installation is doable by people (like me!) with only basic DIY skills.

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OK chaps i am an installer based in Spain have you all seen this site for info on ASTRA 2F- http://robssatellitetv.webs.com/astra2f.htm it will give reception reports for all areas of europe as soon as the satellite lights up and starts tests which could be anytime now !

http://robssatellitetv.webs.com/astra2freceptionreports.htm Reception Reports

http://robssatellitetv.webs.com/astra2freceptionmaps.htm Reception Maps

 

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So ................ has it happened yet?

I ask that because we're completely unaffected here.  By that I mean BBC1-4, ITV1-4, C4, C5 + all the radio stations that we use.

I'm not having a pop at anybody (it was good to be warned), but this feels a bit like the end of the world that never came!!

I've not read all the posts on the subject, so I've probably missed something, but as a complete layman I'm having trouble in understanding how a replacement satellite (presumably because the old one is time-expired + an opportunity to upgrade the technology) should potentially provide a lower level of coverage that the one its replacing. Of course there's no obligation on the satellite builders to meet the needs of a load of expats, but it just defies logic ............... or am I missing the point?  

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No its not happened yet its in position but not started broadcasting yet ! The BBC etc want to restrict the signal as far as possible within the UK borders due to copyright agreements with the program makers and the newer satellites are more advanced and allow a greater deal of flexibility / tweakability on the signal strentgh from the UK spot beam so that is why this is likely (yet to be confirmed) have an impact on dish sizes required outside of the UK !
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You missed it then? It is on or around the 28th November and it is only the 20th today. It has arrived at it's permanent home and they are getting ready to move the channels across. So carry on biting your nails. [;-)]

From what I have read it seems these satellites only have a limited lifespan, this new one is said to have a life of 15 years according to their website. I can't imagine them wearing out but their orbit may decay over the years and of course there is only so much 'future proofing' they can do. It's not just TV of course. This satellite will give 20mb download speed for those that use it for Internet access and can cope with voip phone calls like you get with Orange etc.

English TV companies may want to take advantage of the smaller footprint because of copyright protection etc on transmitted programs and see this as a better bet. Likewise I have no idea if it is also to do in part with the woman with the pub who won a European Court judgement making it legal to watch premier football transmitted via a Greek satellite a year or two ago rather than paying Sky a fortune for the same program. The European Court ruling now is that if reception is possible there is no problem in you using it as there are no borders within the EU. This is of course quite different to copyright law which is another subject. Thing is if Sky had gone about this differently and allowed anyone in Europe to take out a subscription quite legally they could have made a fortune. Still all that is another story for another thread although it has been done to death in the past.

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Don't you just get the feeling that there's always somebody somewhere out there trying to shaft you?  Thanks for the info gentlemen.

Oh well, we wait till next week for Armageddon.[Www]

Martin963 - our dish is a tiddly thing, just 50cms wide x 40 cms high.  Its securely mounted to the south side of the house and thus in shelter from the prevailing northerly Mistral wind. Just a daft question - we have 25m+ trees no more than 40m from the house.  Are they the likely cause of reception breakup when we get heavy rain, or is it just the rain and general atmospherics that we have to put up with?  If we have to go with a bigger dish once the big day comes, is it likely to overcome the problem?   

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Similar sort of question from me; if we have to go for a large dish on a ground pole (I hope not) will local trees have an adverse effect? I suspect so. The 60cm dish we currently have is mounted high on the gable end and "looks over" the trees.

I'm probably worrying ahead of time.

 

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Unless the trees are right infront of the line of sight of the SKY from the dish they will have NO impact at all remember the signal comes from above !

Whats all this talk of LARGE dishes a 1m dish is small here in Spain.... You want to think yourselves lucky that you do not need a 2.4m dish now that is large !!!!!

A 1m - 1.4m dish can be mounted quite safely on a wall or chimney (providing your installer fits in correctly) without a problem.

Maybe i should have a working holiday in the South of France and fit a few dishes for people :-)

 

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There's a formula somewhere (which I can't find at present but could be derived from Pythagoras very easily) that allows you to calculate how far away a tree of a known height casts its shadow,   taking into account the position of the satellite.   I'll see if I can find it later...

But trees are pretty disastrous as far as reception is concerned,  we've had to fell several ashes over the years because they grew into the path of Auntie.    If you wait for ash disease to come along they'll probably fall down of their own accord.....

As others have hinted,   it's becoming easier to beam satellite footprints more accurately,  and in some cases the considerations of copyright make it desirable.   Additionally if one can restrict the footprint one can then re-use the same frequency to provide a different service in another part of Europe.  

Originally the BBC broadcast on Astra 2A with almost pan-European coverage,   and as a result they had to submit to the "yoke" of Sky's encryption,   meaning that to have the  BBC you had to have a Sky box and card (although the card was nominally free if one just wanted the BBC).    This situation changed in 2003 - largely due to the fluke that Astra 2D was an of-the-peg Hughes satellite which just happened to have a tighter beam.    Greg Dyke (*)saw his chance to escape from Sky and preserve the BBC's licence fee in the face of calls for subscription only TV (it's a long story) and as a result it became easier for people abroad to watch the BBC (provided they were within the tighter 2D footprint) because any old digital receiver was suitable....

So for those of us who have been around a while it's worth remembering that to obtain a non-subsidy Sky box and card for the BBC in 1999 cost £380 - so 2D has been a boon for the later-comers....

I'll see if I can find that formula....

(*) The forum appears not to like the name of a former DG of the BBC....!

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Indeed!    But I think the formula (roughly) would be

h = height of tree

d = distance of tree from dish

then tan (angle elevation) = h/d

Work out angle of elevation from that formula and then if it's > than 33 deg (roughly) you'll be OK and if it's < than 33 deg you won't.   The exact value for 33 deg depends if you're north or south France.....

If the dish is above the ground I suppose you would subtract the height of the dish from the height of the tree.

Not sure how you measure the height of the tree reliably!!

I still have nightmares about my maths master,  one Mr Rankin.   In many ways he wasn't a bad man but goodness we were terrified of him...

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[quote user="Martin963"]Indeed!    But I think the formula (roughly) would be

h = height of tree
d = distance of tree from dish

then tan (angle elevation) = h/d

Work out angle of elevation from that formula and then if it's > than 33 deg (roughly) you'll be OK and if it's < than 33 deg you won't.   The exact value for 33 deg depends if you're north or south France.....

If the dish is above the ground I suppose you would subtract the height of the dish from the height of the tree.

Not sure how you measure the height of the tree reliably!!

[/quote]

Right, apart from building my 2nd leaf mould container tomorrow (we live such entertaining lives, don't we?) I'll be be doing the maths tomorrow.

The problem is going to be this 33 deg lark.  At the end of it all, I suppose it doesn't really matter which number one comes up with - if it works, it works, and if it doesn't ...........

Sounds like I need to get someone up a few of those trees in the Spring to pollard them: they need doing anyway as part of the general tree management + it gives me some good logs for the Winter. 

Never had any of these problems pre-retirement in the UK.  Switch TV on: it works.    

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[quote user="Martin963"]Indeed!    But I think the formula (roughly) would be

h = height of tree
d = distance of tree from dish

then tan (angle elevation) = h/d

Work out angle of elevation from that formula and then if it's > than 33 deg (roughly) you'll be OK and if it's < than 33 deg you won't.   The exact value for 33 deg depends if you're north or south France.....

If the dish is above the ground I suppose you would subtract the height of the dish from the height of the tree.

Not sure how you measure the height of the tree reliably!!

[/quote]

Right, apart from building my 2nd leaf mould container tomorrow (we live such entertaining lives, don't we?) I'll be be doing the maths tomorrow.

The problem is going to be this 33 deg lark.  At the end of it all, I suppose it doesn't really matter which number one comes up with - if it works, it works, and if it doesn't ...........

Sounds like I need to get someone up a few of those trees in the Spring to pollard them: they need doing anyway as part of the general tree management + it gives me some good logs for the Winter. 

Never had any of these problems pre-retirement in the UK.  Switch TV on: it works.    

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[quote user="Gardian"]

Never had any of these problems pre-retirement in the UK.  Switch TV on: it works.    

[/quote]

The trouble is we aren't in the UK yet we are trying to get UK TV. I guess if you just wanted French TV then it would be the just as simple in France to get it as getting English TV in the UK.

I was thinking about moving my dish anyway because of trees so should I need a bigger one that may be the 'golden opportunity' I need.

I was wondering that being nearly 500m up a mountain if that helped get a better signal?

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Sadly Quillan even if you were to install a sat dish on the top of Everest you'd not notice any improvement compared to one at sea level (apart possibly from the slight attenuation by rain clouds,  ie if Everest was sticking out of the top of heavy cloud cover.

And of course on Everest you wouldn't be able to "see" the Astra 2 position at 28 deg E (below the horizon) so I'd probably scale back the ambitions there....

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