Astra 2E/2F Technical Thread

[Quillan]

Another thing I was thinking about was what channels go first. At the moment (for me) it is Astra 2E but before the dish was realigned it was Astra 2F. When I phoned round some people had 2E channels working and no 2F whilst others were the opposite way round. I was wondering that from what I read ages ago that in the UK the two signals merge (or focus) together and what you automatically do is align to both. Down here I am wondering if you can align 'spot on' to one which gives weaker performance from the other and it just depends which channel on the tester the installer is using. Perhaps they need to look for a balance between channels on 2E and 2F? Probably a load of rubbish but worth a thought.

[PaulT]

Just watched the local news for our area in the UK and on the weather they mentioned air pollution caused by dust coming up from the south. When I went out in the car earlier there was a lot of dust on the windscreen. Did this cause reception problems?

[Quillan]

[quote user="PaulT"]Just watched the local news for our area in the UK and on the weather they mentioned air pollution caused by dust coming up from the south. When I went out in the car earlier there was a lot of dust on the windscreen. Did this cause reception problems?[/quote]

I don't know but now you mention it I did notice that when we had a few odd spots of rain on Saturday morning just using the wipers on the windscreen before moving the car there was that brownish dust/sand/mud or whatever. So I don't think thats a daft question actually its just a shame that one of the experts no longer posts as I suspect they would know the answer. Wish they would come back.

[Angie]

Sorry to be a pain everyone, but I am so confused with all this technical stuff.  If I could ask some (what most of you must think are) really stupid questions I would be grateful. 

We are located in the Haute Vallee, Aude,  between Puivert and Belesta on a hill, no obstructions and up until the "switch over" had perfect reception.  We have a Humax box on which we used to watch FreeSat and currently an 80cm dish (which is obviously no longer any good - we can only receive a handful of channels, all the CBS stuff and a few of the movies).

Apart from the horrendous cost of installing a 150cm dish (which is what everyone tells us we need), finding somewhere to site it may also be a problem.  Therefore, can someone answer the following questions for me please.

We have a spare SKY box which we could bring to France on our next visit with a viewing card (we have a UK subscription - I know its not the done thing but lots of people seem to be doing it) so would we be able to receive SKY channels with our existing 80cm dish or maybe with a slightly bigger one but hopefully not as big as 150cm. Does SKY use a different satellite?

Not even sure what an LNB does but what type would we need to ensure a good signal?  Someone mentioned "quads" etc. and that you should buy the best quality one going??? Our current dish set up came complete with this so we will obviously have to buy one separately with the new larger dish and haven't a clue what we should be looking for.

Really would appreciate any advice.  I am not being lazy - we have asked two local installers for advice (one quoted almost 1000 euros for dish and set up (and that was on the ground) which we can't afford), the other was better but is up to his eyes in work for the next few months so can't help.  I see that a company called Satenco have 130cm dishes for 149 euros - if anyone is living in our area and has been able to get away with a dish this size then hopefully we could buy one of these. Thanks in advance and sorry for the naivety.

[Quillan]

You won't need a 150cm dish. We have a fully working system now (that can be seen working) and puts you back to where you were before the changeover and we live in not to far from you near Quillan, I will send you a PM.

Your question about where the signals come from for Sky and FreeSat is that they all come from the same place.

[ericd]

Hi all. Reporting from Laguepie 82250. Non obstructed view to satelitte, Sky-Region 2 dish, Quatro LNB and a basic Grundig "Freesat SD" receiver. BBC2 was a tad jerky earlier this week whilst BBC1 was ok asnd so were the other channels but last night, all was well @21h30.

[PaulT]

Some Sky channels have changed to a UK spot beam (some HD ones) and there is speculation that others will follow so Sky may only be a short term solution.

I take it the installer who quoted 1.000 euros detected you are not French.

Q is not far from you so his advice is very useful to you.

We are in 31 and had an 80cm dish that was OK until they reduced power and now have a 130cm dish that was OK until strong winds moved it last night (the mount is a little undersized.

If your DIY skills enable you can either fix a mount to a wall or concrete in a post then you could do the installation yourself.

With the mount installed fix the dish but so that it can be moved (i.e. clamps not too tight). Easier if you take a box and TV to the dish and connect them up. Select one of the channels you can currently receive, such as cBS or Pick (on a pan European beam) and then adjust fractionally the elevation and slowly move the dish through an arc and repeat this until you receive the channel and adjust this for maximum signal quality using the meters on the Humax box. Now select a BBC or ITV channel and fractionally adjust the dish until you receive the channel and then for max signal quality.

Obviously using a professional meter may give better results but using the DIY method you can decide whether reception is satisfactory or whether you need a man with a meter.

[Quillan]

I personally think it is best to get a professional in to set it up especially down here. The reason being is that I have watched them align different dishes at my house and have been surprised at just how small the movement it on the dish, LNB angle and distance between LNB and dish affects the signal quality.

I have sent you a PM by the way which might help you further if you need it.

[Angie]

Thank you so much Quillan and val douest, this is really helpful and even I can understand it!  Yes, I suspect the installer knew we were Brits but this price was based on a 150cm dish which hopefully with both your encouraging advice we won't need. Some of those really larger dishes are almost 500 euros on their own and that's without installation.  Too expensive for us.  I am in touch with Quillan who has kindly pm'd me.  Thanks again everyone.

[Quillan]

In fairness a reasonable 150cm dish is about 600 Euros and if you need a 180cm like some Brit "satellite engineer" round here said you would need and is selling you are looking at around 1,000. That does not include the LNB, mounting kit, new cables and concrete plinth in the garden.

You can buy cheaper when it comes to the dish but cheaper dishes have their own problems as people are finding out on another forum who have bought 130cm dishes through a French supplier for 83 Euros plus delivery. Slightest wind and they lose the picture plus the mount is a nightmare and they are very difficult to align.

We spent lot of time on this and went for a middle of the road dish, not the most expensive but not the cheapest. We stayed with metal dishes where as 'plastic' dishes are better in the wind as they don't tend to move but then they are very expensive, 260 Euros for a good 130cm dish plus delivery.

My guys dish if competitively priced, more than prices advertised on the web but only if you can collect it. Seeing parcels now are priced by size when you add in the shipping costs it ends up the same price. It is just a shame that you can't get the specific LNB that gives the best results in our area here in France but with the internet these days it is not really a big problem. Our other problem is living so close to the Pyrenees which as I have learnt have quite an affect especially in dodgy weather.

Our dish costs between 450 and 500 Euros with no discount but this does include everything, LNB, new mounting bracket, mounting and alignment. The variance in price is based on how many outputs you need (single, twin, quad or Quattro) and if the dish needs to be relocated. The best possible price is possibly 350 to 380 Euros for a single LNB replacing an existing dish, no new cables and when the discount is applied. Even at the worse price thats a Euro per day for 500 days after which it is free plus you have the garantee on the work for a year and if the dish does move (mine didn't even in the recent high winds) they will come and align it again for free.

My greatest fear when I started out on this 'journey' (when Astra 2F was launched) was to end up buying the wrong dish and LNB thus wasting my money. At the very start I did buy a 90cm dish because a lot of people at the time on other forums said it would work and it didn't. Fortunatly the 90cm dish was not that expensive but still a waste of money (I still have it if anyone is interested, it was only used for a couple of months). We have been through four dishes now but working with the guy we use it has not cost me anything so I am very grateful. The other thing I discovered was you can't take what others say as being gospel. This because each area is different and sometimes somebody 50km away does not work when your does because there seems to be many different parameters that affect reception and the shape of the coverage area. This is why I have always maintained it is better to use a proper, registered, installer otherwise it could cost you a lot of money for nothing.

So I am now a happy chap having a dish etc that performs just as it did before the changes plus I don't have Mrs Q on my back because she can't watch her favorite programs.

[basquesteve]

I have given up on upgrading my 100cm dish some days are ok others no signal so for £3,07 a month I use internet TV ( all uk channels ) via laptop to TV speed is only 2.3mb but no buffering good picture and IPlayer downloads

[Quillan]

I know how you feel Steve, there were times when I could have quite happily thrown the lot in the bin. One minute you think you have cracked it then two weeks later it starts playing up again. On a 100cm dish if you are getting a good picture 60% of the time experience in my (geographic) area would indicate that a 130cm dish will do the job with a good LNB. My problem was that with such low Internet speed the buffering became so annoying that I had to bite the bullet and continue trying different dish and LNB combinations. The other thing is, which is probably me being pedantic, I like to watch certain events live.

If you have a Humax or similar decoder you can use that to watch IPlayer etc as well. I had a 14 day trial with one of these 'smart dns' companies after which you pay $2.99 per month (2.18 Euros or £1.80). The trick with the Humax box is it defaults to finding a DHCP server so you need to turn this off on your router then get the Humax to try and connect. When it can't find the DHCP server only then will it go into manual setup mode. Give it an IP address outside the DHCP server range so it is perminant (like 192.168.1.51 on a Orange router) and enter the dns address for the service you choose. Go back and turn on the DHCP server on the Orange router and your up and running. The Humax box knows now that you set up manually and will continue to run on that address until you do a factory reset. The problem with many of these smart dns servers is the IP address of the device has to be registered with them and if you let the Humax box set itself automatically at some point the IP address on it will change and you have to set it up again. Not only that but you can't edit the dns address. This way the IP address never changes so you never have that problem.

[Jako]

Don't forget that the Astra2E/F/G satellites have a lifespan of 15 years. Investing in a proper dish solution will therefore be beneficial for at least 15 years : good investment.

Watching online is actually illegal, so do not be surprised when this solution suddenly stops working because of legal action against the provider: bad investment.

[Jay]

[quote user="Jako"]

Watching online is actually illegal......

[/quote]

Is it?

If you want to watch BBC iPlayer etc. on your computer without using something like Expat Shield then try using Firefox with the add-on Media Hint. It's free, no adverts and no huge program using up your bandwidth.

https://mediahint.com/

[Chiefluvvie]

[quote user="Jako"]Watching online is actually illegal[/quote]

Crikey - sweeping statement if ever I saw one.....

Watching 'what' online is illegal, and where Jako? Do share.....

Chiefluvvie :-)

[sid]

I second that request.... come on then, tell us where it's illegal and why!

 

[Quillan]

All the old chestnut of is it or isn't it.

Lets put it this way. Without forging your location to make you look like you are in the UK you can't watch certain programs on BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 IPlayers, you get a message telling you that you can't, so why is this?

You can of course watch BBC IPlayer abroad quite legally if you pay the BBC (according to their website) which would imply that by watching through websites like Expat Shield you are actually stealing from the BBC etc.

Is anyone going to do anything about, should you expect a knock on the door, I doubt it. Likewise I suspect that the BBC (and the others) are fully aware of what's happening. I am sure at some stage they will come up with a simple way to stop this activity, perhaps entering your UK TV licence number to watch may be a solution they are looking at.

The same could be said of course for watching via Satellite although on this the EU ruling is reasonably clear, if you can receive it this way your not breaking any EU laws. You would like to think the BBC etc knew this which is why they have put their programs on UK 'spot' beam although I would suggest that this ruling came out way after the planning stages and build of these new satellites. Still who really knows what goes through these peoples minds.

Perhaps as faster Internet is rolled out and technology improves after 15 years there will be no need for satellites to be used, it will all come through the Internet, who knows. Perhaps, like France and its satellite TV system you will need a viewing card.

As to the cost of investing in a good dish etc look at it this way. Pay 500 Euros for a dish etc for 15 years is 9 cents per day, not exactly expensive seeing as you're not paying a UK TV licence. In fact it is a lot, lot, cheaper than buying a licence.

[Jay]

[quote user="Quillan"]

You can of course watch BBC IPlayer abroad quite legally if you pay the BBC (according to their website) which would imply that by watching through websites like Expat Shield you are actually stealing from the BBC etc.

[/quote]

So where does it say that on the BBC website? In the FAQ it categorically states "

Can I use BBC iPlayer outside the UK?

Rights agreements mean that BBC iPlayer television programmes are only available to users to download or stream (Click to Play) in the UK.

Now that seems pretty clear to me.

There is no implication of theft as far as I can see.

[Jako]

Exactly. It is obviously the same rights issue that is the reason behind the existence of the UK spot beam: rights are only paid for in the UK.

In France many of the same rights are paid for by TF1 or Canal+ so the BBC , ITV etc must make sure that you cannot watch their programs in France or risk a complaint and damage claim by French TV stations. Use of the UK spotbeam is the 'approved' solution for satellite TV, for IPTV geoblocking is used, but the current system has room for improvement, which is actually not hard to implement.

[Chiefluvvie]

Give me strength - here we go again....dark ages...

Exactly Jay! - the rights agreement you have quoted above only applies to 'downloading' and 'streaming' - not specifically 'watching' - so stop being silly.

On top of that, as we all know, you actually CAN use all UK players to stream / download anywhere in the world (with a decent connection). So - I think technology may have overtaken you and the BBC.

If you want to talk 'illegal' then everyone using a Sky satellite set up outside the UK should be sent to the guillotine immediately....naughty, naughty people.

Chiefluvvie :-)

[dave21478]

[quote user="Jay"][quote user="Jako"]

Watching online is actually illegal......

[/quote]

Is it?

If you want to watch BBC iPlayer etc. on your computer without using something like Expat Shield then try using Firefox with the add-on Media Hint. It's free, no adverts and no huge program using up your bandwidth.

https://mediahint.com/

[/quote]

I was a big fan of mediahint but a couple of days ago it started popping up with "login via facebook" or some similar pish. Basically it is no longer free.

You can get a free seven day trial by signing up with an email address which is [email protected] but I would expect that to stop working after a while too.

Anyway, I came back to this thread because I switched the tellybox on for the first time in a long while and the bloody thing doesnt work anymore. At first I assumed the dish had been budged by the strong winds a while back, but I can still get the CBS style channels showing films nobody has ever heard of and back to back repeats of Start Trek and Judge Judy.

Seems like I will need a bigger dish, but for the very small amount I watch, I dont really think its worth it for me. Streaming is patchy as my connection is too slow to play anything at a resolution much higher than an Etch-a-Sketch but I can wait a day and get most things by torrent, so thats ok, I suppose.

[Jay]

Media Hint is still free. I'm not sure why you needed to log in but I am using it all the time and have not had that problem. If you go to their website you are asked to log in to download but there is an option for email/password, not just facebook.

If you just need to install the add-on then go direct to the firefox site and there is no log-in required (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-hint/). Once installed it automatically updates.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Jay"][quote user="Quillan"]

You can of course watch BBC IPlayer abroad quite legally if you pay the BBC (according to their website) which would imply that by watching through websites like Expat Shield you are actually stealing from the BBC etc.

[/quote]

So where does it say that on the BBC website? In the FAQ it categorically states "

Can I use BBC iPlayer outside the UK?

Rights agreements mean that BBC iPlayer television programmes are only available to users to download or stream (Click to Play) in the UK.

Now that seems pretty clear to me.

There is no implication of theft as far as I can see.
[/quote]

"Watch the BBC for just £52 - but only if you're overseas: Millions of viewers in Europe, Australia and Canada get annual passes for just £4 a month"

If something has to be bought then taking it for nothing some may argue is stealing.

There is a IPad/IPhone app that allows you to watch for free apparently but it is limited to programs that are licenced to watch outside the UK.

The BBC also says in its IPlayer Q&A "Rights agreements mean that BBC iPlayer programmes are only available to Android/iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad App users to stream within the UK."

Actually it's all as clear as mud to me as it appears the BBC keeps contradicting its self on its own website.

Anyway we have had this debate ten or twenty times over the last 12 years and nobody has ever come up with a definitive answer. The one thing for sure though nobody in France to the best of my knowledge has even been woken up in the early hours by a bloke from the BBC because they have been watching programs either via IPlayer or Satellite. The only thing I can remember was reading a few years back that Sky in conjunction with Spanish officals and police raided several re-broadcasting companies in Spain and some 'Sports Bars' and took all their equipment away yet the practice there still goes on.

If you really want to continue with this by all means start (yet) another thread on the subject and leave this one to what it was started for.

[PaulT]

Dave comments that he cannot get BBC etc but can get CBS so his dish has not moved:

From my aligning of the old and now new dish the likes of CBS are received easily and large movements of the dish mean that they are still received. However, when it comes to anything on the spot beam then very small moves means that you either have them or not.

When aligned the dish needs 'locking' in position. My current thoughts are, once aligned to drill through the mount attached to the dish and the pole and to use a nut and bolt to hold it in position.

[Jako]

Yes, that is a tested solution to tackle this problem.