dog training/"dressage"

[Polycarpe]

We are lucky enough to have taken in a three month old abandoned puppy. Keen to do right by her and us, we've been looking for dog training schools. Our vet gave us a name but he turned out to be a trainer for farm dogs (sheep and cattle herding). I've requested information from SPA but haven't had a reply. When I've asked French friends, they've just shrugged or looked puzzled and suggested that this is the kind of thing you do at home.

Does training for domestic animals not exist in France?

I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

[Deimos]

Dog training clubs do exist in France but are not always easy to find. To make things harder you need to be very careful about the training methods used. Most dog training clubs in France use methods that would not be acceptable in the UK. For example, all dog training clubs I have seen in France require you to use a chain choke collar - something that would not be allowed in a UK APDT run training class !!

It is quite standard for a French club to allow you to attend one of more classes before deciding to join. My current club has a formal thing where you can attend 2 classes before joining (each time you attend as a visitor you sign-in so they know you've been and are covered by their insurance). Others (e.g. my previous club) are less formal but still quite happy about it.

To find one is quite a hunt as, the ones around me do not have web sites. There are some in the Yellow Pages, but far from all. I ended up finding my previous club and current one by asking around, searching "daft" possibilities, etc. If you have problems finding one, PM me your nearest couple of towns/department and I will have a check.

If she is 3 months old, she is still in what is regarded as the important time for "socialisation" so it is really important to take her out in the world to meet new experiences (including but not limited to other dogs). Whilst it always helps dogs to meet new experiences, it is the 1st 14 weeks where the pup is most open to new experiences without becoming scared of them. A decent dog club will help but my previous club had some dogs that were downright badly behaved with other dogs and would be best kept away from pups (which they did not do).

Depending on your dogs breed and nature, you might like to start something a bit more exciting that obedience with your dog (as she becomes a bit older). For example, agility or flyball. Not many clubs doing flyball a the moment but agility is popular. You can start a pup on agility at 6 months (though some of the obstacles need to be left until 10 months or older - depending on the breed). Some dogs love agility and its far less "restrained" than obedience (plus at most clubs you can actually do both).

Ian

[PossumGirl]

Polycarpe, there is a dog  club in Carcassonne.  A recent article on them in the Depeche talked about activities, including their VERY gentle dog training methods!  You should definitely check them out.

PG

[Deimos]

I just re-read what I wrote above and some aspects of what I wrote are a bit negative. Provided you like the club concerned, there are probably ways you can get round any choke chain and the training methods issues. At my first club I just refused to use a choke chain on my dog - end of story and not open to discussion. Also, with a pup they should not even be suggesting it but if they do just say "no, not on a pup" and then you have established that your dog does not have a choke chain (for ever more). As far as the use of things like the "corrective jerk", yelling and hitting - nobody else ever got to hold my dogs lead so my youngster never got yanked around like that. When there was something I was not happy with I just did not do it. I did not make an issue of it, just quietly did not do it. However, with most pups, you can do the "obedience training" at home in no time (sit, stay, lie, that sort of stuff), then at the dog club go on and do something more exciting and off lead -> the problem of training methods goes away.

As an example, I was not happy with the way they tried to teach my pup the see-saw in agility. So I immediately stopped, and went on to do something else. Rigged-up something at home, taught her to do it "my way" and the following week "no problems" (as she could do it fine).

Ian

[Polycarpe]

Thanks to you both for your helpful replies.

I, like you Ian, am not happy to subject our dog to training methods that involve shouting or hitting. I'm pleased to learn that clubs allow visits. We're very keen to get Flora socialised, with other dogs and with the noises and sensations of a busy town, before we move out to quite an isolated spot in the Corbieres.

Thanks Possum for the recommendation in Carca. We'll certainly check it out.

Rob

[cooperlola]

Or ask your vet, he/she should know of any that exist in your area.

[Bones]

Polycarpe:

There is a dog training club (I probably can't name it) in Villemoustaussou - quite near the one that's been recommended: don't go getting the two confused!

I took my dog (pictured left) there on an open day - lots of potential punters watched as the idiot trainer tried to wrench her neck off with the choke chain: she snapped it in one go!

Not long after, the same idiot thought it would be funny to shout at our (then) six year old and made him cry... then the missus started crying...

Basically I'd advise against a visit!

[PossumGirl]

I've used clicker training quite successfully with my BC, even though at the beginning it was a challenge because she was afraid of the clicker noise! 

I am infuriated when I see the way some of the people around here try to "train" their dogs with brutality.  It is impossible to explain to them that hitting, wrenching, yelling, etc. will NOT have the desired effect.  Strangely, their dogs often run to me when the see me; you'd think they would wonder why that is?

PG

[Polycarpe]

I've always wondered why dogs stay with some people. Their loyalty and forebearance says more about them than the lovability of their "owners".

I've checked the school recommended and its out on the Bram Road. I shall give Villemoustou a very wide birth. Our vet's assisant did suggest a local trainer but he turned out to be a specialist in training herding dogs.

Thanks again to all.

Rob

[Deimos]

First visit to my first club, I started teaching my pup agility. Within a few minutes she was doing the tunnel no problem, the soft tunnel no problem, a few minutes later jumping fine. Then it took her a few minutes more to get to grips with the Passerelle, etc. (though she was too young for all the obstacles).

Everybody else was standing there watching with their mouth open and how fast she was learning. The reason, every time she did it right she was rewarded and every time she did it wrong I just turned by back and walked away.

I stayed with the club a year and a half (before changing) and the one thing that made me really happy was when I started seeing others following training the way I trained mine. Some managed to stop shouting, hitting, etc. when their dog got it wrong and started just ignoring the mistakes and rewarding the successes.

One thing though, a lot of French dogs must be very committed to their owners. For a dog to put so much energy and concentration into charging round an agility course to just be ignored at the end, yet do what your handler indicated rather than what he was thinking and "you're for it".

Ian

[Maddie]

Like Ian I go to a French dog training club. I was lucky in that my club has a weekend of training - Saturday agililty and Sunday obedience. Saturday is far more relaxed - we do obedience and agility and now have a puppy/agility socialisation class. Sunday is more geared up to obedience and "mordant" or "ring" training with a bit of agility thrown in. The techniques are different t those used int eh UK but, as I have come to see, effective. Most of the dogs at my club on Sunday are European line working dogs, that is to say malinois, GSD, boxer etc. Working dogs that need firm handling.

I don't recall if anyone has mentioned this site www.cnea.net - click on les clubs and your department and there will appear a list of clubs with details of their fields of speciality.

I've been really lucky, I love my club, the folk that go (all French) are fabulous, I do agility competitions with my older lab and am now working on agilty and ringcraft with my younger. Only once has the instructor man-handled my older lab and now, quite frankly, she is such a handful I'm beginning to wonder if I should not have persisted with their methods. All my dogs (except my new pup) started their initial training in the UK. I belonged to a training club in the UK so am familiar with both methods of training. I favour reward based training which is what we do on Suaturdays and at home.

Unlike Ians club most of the folk I do agility with tend to heap their dogs with praise! In fact we get told off if we don't praise our pooches!

I would say, go along, watch, take part and make up your own mind.

[Deimos]

I should say my new club is much better than my first club. First visit to my new club one of the instructors had the nerve to hit my dog for "mis-behaving" (though she was not mis-behaving at all, just being a dog). Left disappointed and decided that other aspects of the club were good so decided best way forward was to let my feelings be known. Since then no problems, owners are far better with how they treat their dogs for the agility (I'm afraid I don't bother too much with obedience but they do still use choke chains and what I would call "rough handling" - fortunately not in the agility/flyball so I'm not affected). I've only had lead tugging suggested once at agility and the guy concerned was left in no doubt about my attitude to his suggestion. Still, they are a good friendly crowd and don't seem to mind the couple of times I've been outspoken.

The instructors in agility and flyball tend to spend most of their time with the beginner dogs these days and those who are a bit more experienced are somewhat left to get on with training as we see fit. Sometimes an instructor will set-up a really difficult course, send each of us round it and when a mistake is made, there is a discussion about alternative methods and what went wrong. They do tend to be pretty impossible courses though (instructors cannot even get round then clear).

I may be over generalising but my first club did a lot of this "defence" training (sort of police dog training, getting your dog to attack somebody dressed in all the padded gear).. New club does not do this and is better. Only a sample of two clubs though.

Provided you go to a club with a clear attitude as to what training methods you are prepared to use, stick to that and are not vague about trying a bit of what they want, then deciding not, then maybe .... Stick to your guns and you should not have problems and everybody is there to have a good time.

Ian

[St Bernard]

There is a dog training school at La Tour de Crieu, near Pamiers, which meets every saturday afternoon.

Jan Laury