Letting cats out at night

[Jenk]

I would be interested to know if cat owners feel they have to keep cats inside at night.

Will be moving to a rural spot in Aveyron next March with my two cats.  Somebody has now told me never to let them go out at night as I it's very dangerous for them as there are predators and people around who will shoot cats as they catch the rabbits and spoil the 'chasse.'  I imagine they might think our cats have not been neutered and would therefore roam the fields for miles around.  This is not the case, and I'm sure they would remain within the confines of the garden and outbuildings.  The immediate neighbour does shoot but he would never shoot across the garden and knows how much we love our cats - there are lot's of feral cats around but I don't hear any shooting in the night when I am down there.  One cat is very old and hardly goes out at night anyway - the other one prefers to be in and out at night, but although he is good natured he is very quick, agile and healthy and can look after himself.  Foxes don't go for cats, do fouines attack adult cats?  What other dangers are there other than the dangers at night that occur anywhere.

 

 

[water rat]

We have 3 who have spent every night outside for 6 years and catch a myriad of vermine during our slumbers . I don't think there's anything around that would even tackle a cat ,unless perhaps you have wolves in your neck of the woods!

Just this morning ,sad to say,I found a freshly killed weasel on the lawn, and they're pretty aggressive predators.

[babcock]

We let ours please themselves via a cat door. Generally they aren't too bothered in the dead of night but early morning is a good time for hunting. We have never had any problems in 7 years except for i run over on a very quiet road but you can't teach them road sense.

[JohnRoss]

Our last two cats have never been outside either here or in the UK. In the UK it was just to dangerous as we lived on the edge of a large city and in the past had a cat run over on the road outside our house. I suspect that risk also exists in quiet rural France. Another of our cats  was shot by some yob with an air gun. Both survived these events but only due to the surgical skills of the vets who looked after them. These last two have lived indoors, with an outside caged run, for the whole of their lives and were quite used to it and were contented cats.

However to shut a cat in that has been used to going out may be considered cruel by some. The dangers are real but deciding how great a risk is difficult. Some birds of prey could attack a cat as could some animals including foxes. It is a myth that cats won't be attacked by a hungry fox. (See links below) However the main risk in France, in my opinion, is people with guns who will shoot anything that moves, got three of them living next door, and poison and traps put down by country folk for rats and other vermin. They will encounter disease outside in the feral cat population and from ticks etc. They can be protected against most infections to some extent if their shots are kept up to date. Many sites suggest that a good compromise is to keep them in at night and let them wander during the day. I am pretty sure our neighbour would shoot a cat on sight if it went near his chickens or other poultry and his two sons would shoot a cat for sport.  I suspect this attitude is more common in the countryside than you might care to think.

I think any cat that was outside during the hunting season would be at risk from hunting dogs and hunters. I watched a hunting dog tear a pet rabbit, which escaped from across the road, to pieces in our drive way. They blast away around here at anything they see so if you let them out you have to accept that they may not come back one day. I would not venture into our local woods during the hunting season, more than one person has been shot by accident! It is difficult as one has to do what is best for the cat and not the owners. Good luck whatever you decide.....................................JR

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4195162/Hungry-foxes-start-eating-the-nations-cats.html  and we cannot leave bin bags out as they get ripped open by hungry foxes and the like!

http://forum.doctissimo.fr/animaux/Chats/chat-menu-renard-sujet_2419_1.htm it would appear that the French cannot agree on this either!

[louis]

OMG I'm glad I don't live where you do JohnRoss I have had cats for over 30 years in the city and now in the countryside and not once have they succumbed to any of the above. I have 10 cats who have freedom to go where they chose and I certainly wouldn't have it any way. They live in harmony with dogs and chickens who they don't look twice at.

My cats range from 18 down to 14 weeks and appear to have a happy life and as long as you keep yours inoculated and flea free please don't keep them incarcerated the rest of their days let them have fun.

regards Louis

[JohnRoss]

I think that you have to think like a cat and not a human which is indeed difficult. However if they have never experienced the outside world and if they are loved, well fed, allowed to have fun by play hunting in the house and outside run and kept in good health there is no reason why they should not be chats de maison all their lives. Not just my view but that of many professionals and related web sites. My wife used to be an active member of the CPL and they did not advocate chucking a cat out at night.  However the problem comes when you have to decide what is best for a cat that has been used to going out, that is the problem and one to which I sadly have no answer..................................JR

[alleycat]

We let our two cats, whom we brought from the UK, out at night and we live in rural Aveyron.  They just love it and rarely stray off our land as there is plenty for them to explore.  We have feral cats on the property (that I feed during hard winter nights) and they have never caught anything nasty off them or come to any harm.  We regularly Frontline them for ticks and fleas and worm also, but then we did that in the UK also, so nothing different.  We have the hunters around here who go after hare and rabbits but again if the cats hear so much as one shot in the distance they head back home to the safety of our land, which is fenced and no hunters allowed and we have no near neighbours who are trigger happy either!  Our cats have been here for three years and have thrived with the freedom here and the safety from traffic.  Night predators are no worse than anything they would be likely to encounter back in the UK, foxes etc.  Let them have the run of the place and once they have the measure of their surroundings they will be fine I'm sure.  Ours love the warm fireside most winter nights now anyway!

[JohnRoss]

Foxes are a problem in the UK, check the link, and we have lots of owls and buzzards around here. Hunters do climb over into our field and shoot coypu and deer and would, I suspect, shoot the odd cat as well, just plain trigger happy and one of the few things I don't like about France. I am really glad you have had no problems but I do not share your optimism!........JR

[Christine Animal]

I agree with all you say JohnRoss.  We've been through this before on here.  Where we lived before we let our cats, all rescues, live in and out.  Even where we were out in the country several got run over, the last after she had been with us for four years.  Never again, it's unbearable.  Something happens to them one way or another after a certain time.  Many cats live in flats and are perfectly happy, Paris for example is full of them.  A caged run is ideal or electric fence if you have a suitable or walled garden.

 

[babcock]

I can't agree. One of our cats is a rescue from Angouleme. She had never been outside and had some problems adjusting(so how did she end up a stray and formerly pregnant) but now she is a real "country girl" and to see her race across the garden , tail up like a meer kat is a delight. I do not agree with "putting the cats out at night" as the old fashioned idea was but given the choice and a cat flap they are safe as possible.

[5-element]

Whether or not to let the cat go in and out at night, as she pleases, is a real issue for me. She is only a small cat, but a fierce warrior, very territorial, who gallops out of the house through her cat flap when she sees another cat outside. She will get into scrapes - and given her size, she is disadvantaged. There have been a couple of occasions when she was fairly badly injured and has had to go to the vet for her wounds from fighting. I try to minimise that problem by bringing her in from the garden every night at dusk - I close her catflap and let her out again after dawn. But it does mean that it is very difficult for my husband and I to go away together, unless we have a friend to come and live in the house while we are away. Our cat is also very timid and nervous of people other than the 2 of us - although she will eventually let someone befriend her - provided that person is female, small, with a soft voice...

The question is always there for me: would it be "safe" to let her go out at night if she wants to, knowing that the times she wants to is when she sees another cat to chase out of "her territory"? I really don't want her to get damaged (or worse) regularly, by other bigger cats, or feral cats which are around. I keep dreaming that one day, she might "make friends". Hah, fat chance.

[water rat]

There's a lot of scare_mongering going on here . I'd like to know how often all these events have occoured. We live in a very lively hunting area and I can't remember the last time any hunters went out shooting at night. During the day they keep well away from properties. We all love our pets ,but to keep them confined when they are used to being free is cruel and doing it for our own peace of mind. The nature of a cat ,unfortunately means that one day they will just dissappear and you'll wonder what happened to them,but to keep them caged up because you can't bear this feeling is for you ,not for the cat.

[JohnRoss]

You may not agree with all that this chap says but makes interesting reading! http://maxshouse.com/Healthy+Happy_Indoors.htm  .......................JR

[Christine Animal]

Water Rat, it's not just a feeling, it's unfortunately experience!  It's for the cat's safety and for his life, not for us.  It's much easier to let them out than have to clean litter trays, etc.

Don't forget that many cats are also being stolen for their fur, laboratories, etc.  Each person has his way of seeing the subject, but don't come crying on here when your cat has disappeared as it sadly has to several people.

 

[JohnRoss]

There are lots of ways of keeping an indoors cat amused. For example this was suggested to us by a cat behavourist or cat phsycologist, if you prefer, who was doing research into just this subject and wanted to interview our cats, and us of course, some years ago in the UK. A bit like the suggestion of a box with paw sized holes, see the link refered to earlier, only more interesting. You get a used spring water plastic bottle and make a number of holes in the sides. I find the best way to do this is to melt them through using a small soldering iron or metal rod heated in a gas flame, less likely to tear than drilled holes. You place a few cat treats, or in our case renal diet pellets as our last 17 year old surviving cat has progressive kidney failure, inside the bottle and put the cap back on. The holes should only just be large enough for them to pass through. The cat soon learns that if the bottle is rolled around the floor from time to time a treat will emerge. Our cats loved this and would play with it a lot. The point is that this satisfies the hunting, seeking instinct without exposing them to external dangers. Cat toys are important and don't need to be expensive like the pink fluffy ones you see in the shops. Just a little imagination is needed and the ability to think "What would I like if I were a cat?"......................................JR

[Jenk]

Thanks for all the responses and various opionions.

I do like to see a cat living a cat's life and enjoying the outdoors as well as the comforts of home, with easy access through a flap.  I think I'll make some enquiries when I move in, introduce the cats to the neighbours so they know what they look like and then play it by ear

[JohnRoss]

Good luck to you and your cats whatever you decide. One thing I should have mentioned is that if you do keep your cats in then do have a tray of grass available in the outside run or in a sunny spot indoors as they do like to self medicate by eating grass to help them vomit out hair balls or something they have eaten which is upsetting them. I have two on the go at any one time. One in service as it were and one recovering outside after a haircut. I plant fresh seed every few months and don't feed the grass indoors, only water, but give it a good dose when taken out. This way it is free of chemicals when brought in again a couple of months later. Indoor plants should be checked against the various poisonous plants for cats lists that you will easily find on the web. By the way human food tainted with onion is quite poisonous to cats so table titbits are not a good idea! See http://www.vetinfo.com/ctoxin.html.............JR

 

PS Where abouts are you from in Hampshire? We come from Southampton and many years ago I used to service Calshot radar station when it was on top of the castle. (As a lad trainee Decca radar technician) 

[Lou]

Since moving here 4 years ago we have lost five cats in total - one run over and the other 4 have just vanished. It's heartbreaking not knowing whether they have just decided to go live somewhere else or whether they have met a sticky end (strongly suspect the latter but try to persuade myself of the former!)

We have five cats at the moment and so far (touch wood, cross fingers etc etc) they seem mostly to hang around close-by. We have spoken to all our neighbours who now know and recognise our cats in the hope that this may help. The prime suspect for the disappearance of our cats (and others in the area too) is one of the local farm dogs - we actually witnessed her chasing, catching (and ultimately killing through injuries) a neighbour's cat. We (and others in the village) have complained on various occasions to the Mairie about this dog - periodically the farmer ties her up but we know that he lets her roam around the village at night. Despite all this we do still let our cats have free access to the outdoors via a catflap - despite the risks I still think it's the best thing for them.

We have also wondered about traps in the woods next to our land but don't have any evidence to take this further. I don't think the hunters would be the greatest risk during the night - we are happier that the cats sleep indoors during the day when the hunt is out.

Maybe we have just been really unlucky (and of course the four that disappeared could have disappeared for 4 completely unconnected reasons!), we're certainly hoping that our luck has changed with the cats we have now - I have told my husband that if this lot do disappear then we will get a goldfish instead as I can't take any more heartache!!

May your cats live long and happy!

Lou

[JohnRoss]

Can I just comment that we have a local  cat that was crippled, according to the vet, by some sort of Gin Trap which may well be illegal but that does not stop country folk employing old ways to protect, they imagine, their livestock. Also I must see about three dead cats a year around here splattered on these so called quiet country roads  and those are only the ones I see, goodness knows how many crawl away to die slowly in some bush! Sorry to be so depressing but this is how it is!...........................JR

[alleycat]

I think all the posts on previous pages tell us that there are no hard and fast rules.  Our cats were used to being free to roam at will but essentially never far from home - we would see them in the fields playing or stalking etc., and they loved their fireside.  To have suddenly kept them in after moving to this amazingly tranquil rural area would have been cruel and impossible so we let them have the run of the property and they almost always stick to our fields (2 hectares).  They move freely among the feral cats who don;t bother them and we NEVER have hunters climbing our fences, hunting at night or being trigger happy anywhere close to our property.  I do accept however, that we are lucky and that this is not the case in other regions and it must be quite frightening and sad to come across some of the previously mentioned incidents.  We don't have predators that take cats either - we have Kites, Buzzards, Sparrow Hawks - but they don't hunt at night!  Owls would have to be quite large (we have long eared ones and barn owls) and fairly desperate to take a cat!  Quite a struggle for an owl also I would say and they do tend to have a plethera of small animals to feast on - also cats are quite cunning at night the way they dart about between and inside buildings seeking their own prey - they are not that stupid.  Foxes do present a problem if they are really hungry possibly and have young to feed.  There are risks to cats in many ways from lots of things but how can we judge for sure - we just take the view that our cats would be so very miserable kept in that we would hate to see it.......... and so far we have been very fortunate and feel we do the right thing by our cats.  That's what keeping pets is about - doing what you think it the right thing for them and we are all differing in our views as this thread shows.  But it's good to air these views.

[Thebiga]

Well we rescued our cat as a small bundle of fur on her last legs 2 years ago. She was over in our hangar making such a noise you would not think that something so small could make that much noise, Anyway we managed to get her down to the house and the vet suspected that she had not even been weaned yet and she looked very sad indeed.

We kept her inside for a fair while at first but it was her wanting to go out that we let her. She kept the mice and moles at bay which was great and she never went much further than our garden (1 Hectare) and the field next door. We run gites and we always tell people that she is a very social cat and would probably come down and see them which she did. Anyway we are the last house in a very small hamlet of 11 houses and if we get 4 cars past a day then its been busy. Anyway she did not come back last friday and we have not seen her since, We will probably never know what happened to her which is the worst thing and only 2 short years. We would rather find a body than not know but as we know they like to go off under a bush or something like that to die if they have been hit by a car. Anyway they should be let out and do there thing as thats what they like to do, Its the way.

[JohnRoss]

Should we end this with a smile? This amused me anyway.  http://www.petplace.com/cat-videos.aspx?p=19  .......JR