Moving to France with a 13year old girl

[Alison]

Hi

I am really hoping somebody can give me some sound advice on what to do.  My Husband and I are wanting to move to France within the next two years, but our daughter who is now 11 years will be 13.  I am really worried about her education over in france and wonder if i should put her into a main stream french school or try to find an english speaking school.

Please could anybody put there give me some ideas.

Thanks

Alison

 

[Bones]

She'll really struggle in a French school, I think that's fair to say.

Obviously the ideal path to follow would be to track down a french tutor asap and commence extra lessons - but in reality your daughter/budget/tutor availability etc might just get in the way a bit! Seeking out a french student at a local english Uni would probably be a good idea?

I hope somebody comes on here and gives you some great advice on private english/international schools and everything works out for you.

Best of luck!

[Unknown]

Hello Alison

My daughter is now 13 and has just started her second year of French school, so she was 12 when she started here and she is mature and sensible for her age.

In the UK she was advanced for her age and received good grades in all of her subjects.  This was a worry for us too as we felt she was doing so well we didn't want to change that.  But she also had a love of France and the language and was more than happy to come and live here, give it a go so to speak.

The first term was tricky, in so much she just attended classes and listened, she wasn't really able to participate fully and the teachers were happy for her to just be there.  The school gave her some French lessons, I think 2 hours per week and this helped immensely.

She had to redouble, redo the year, which means she is in a class of children which are a year younger than her, but this isn't a problem and there are some French kids which also do this.  Subjects like Maths which are universal are easier for them to participate in and of course the English lesson is great for their confidance.

My daughter is now able to speak, read and write in French, she even forgets the names of things in English and refers to them in French.  She is now getting good grades and has overtaken many of her class mates in subjects like Science, French and now Latin where she got the highest grade in the class.

We have been very lucky, I'm sure there are many that aren't as fortunate, but positivity is the key.  You have to take one day at a time and not expect too much too soon.

Where abouts are you looking to move to?  How does your daughter get on in school in the UK?  How does she feel about moving to France?

All the best

Dotty

[Eslier]

What you are proposing will be a huge challenge for your whole family. Moving to France with a child of this age is certainly not easy and whether you achieve success or end up with a complete disaster will depend very much upon both yours and your daughter's commitment to living in France, becoming fluent in the language and your choice of location. A remote idyllic farmhouse is not the place for teenagers to integrate with their peers.  Forget about English schools unless you only intend to live in France for a couple of years. Your daughter needs to be ready to make a full commitment if she is going to enjoy life in France and will need to play a critical part in your decision making.

There have been many articles written on this subject but one of the best I have read was in the March 2006 edition of LIVING FRANCE entitled "Bad Move". The title of the article may sound negetive but it does provide lots of constructive information about the pitfalls that you may encounter. The writer moved to France with an 11 and 13 year old. You can order back copies of Living France at:

http://www.livingfrance.com/lvfra/content/backIssues.asp?year=2006

[Unknown]

I'm sorry Eslier but I disagree with your comment ' A remote idyllic farmhouse is not the place for teenagers to intergrate with their peers'. 

We live in a remote idyllic setting about 5 km from th village.  All of my children attend football, tennis and dance clubs.  They have friends over to sleep and equally they stay over at their friends houses.  The only downside is I have to drive them everywhere, but at least I know they will get there safely.

We used to live in a similar situation in the UK, our house was 5 miles from the schools and 8 miles from the town.  I used to drive everywhere there too.

 

[Eslier]

I am sincerely pleased that everything is working out well for you Dotty. The younger the child is when moving to France the easier it seems to be.  I am sure that, at age 13, the effort you are obviously happy to put in more than makes up for your remote situation.

I am sure that there are, of course, many who find that a remote rural location is not a problem for their teenagers - especially, perhaps, those who have spent much of their life growing up in France. It can be , and is, however, a major problem for many when their children reach fifteen, sixteen or so. The acquisition of a mobillette is often one way around this problem but this in itself brings other dangers and much worrying for some parents.

There are no hard and fast rules or predetermined outcomes. Every family is different and each child may react differently, and sometimes unexpectedly one way or the other. All you can do is read as much as possible about the experiences of others, make informed decisions and be prepared for some of the challenges ahead.

[Ac50]

Hi Dotty,

quite agree with you.  We moved to France 5 years ago, with 3 children aged 13, 15 and 16.  None of us spoke French when we arrived.  We bought a old farmhouse, close to the beach, here in Normandy. We found most of the children's friends used to want to come stay over at the farm, especially in summer, mainly because we had lots of space, and it didn't matter if they made a noise. The youngest children went to school in the nearest town, about 20 minutes drive from the house, and the eldest became a weekly boarder at St Lo, mainly to help with her french.  The assistance we got from both schools and from the local community was fantastic.  I think the main thing was we all wanted to be here, and loved every minute. Although they all had to go back a year, age wise, they saw it as taking a gap year before rather than after leaving school!  Both schools arranged for the children to have one on one lessons with a teacher to improve their french, without us asking for help.  We also found the children at the schools helped too.  One of our eldests friends used to photocopy her notes at the end of everyday, so Rebecca could go through them at night.   After just a couple of years she passed  her french bac (AB) and went on to university in Caen.  Unfortunately my husband was head hunted by a Canadian company.  Although we all begged him not to accept the offer, we moved there last year.  You would think that moving to a country where English was the first language would have made life easier, but far from it.  The children decided to come too but have had a terrible time settling in.  Thankfully, we managed to buy a smaller house here in Normandy, as the eldest just wants to finish her degree next May, and move back to France as soon as possible.  Our son, who is now 18, finishes school also next May and also wants to move back to France.  At the moment I spend 2 months here, and 2 months in Canada. 

Everone is different, but I know none of our teenagers regret the time they spent here at school in France.

[Unknown]

Ac50

It just goes to show it doesn't matter what age your kids are.  If they have a positive approach they can acheive almost anything. 

I also agree that its important you are seen to want to be here in France.  We make every effort to participate in all of the village pastimes and I go along ot all of the kids parents eves, even if I haven't a clude what's being said.  The important thing is I care enough to be there.

I'm sorry you and your family have had this upheavel, hopefully one day you will all be where you want to be.

Dotty

[Alison]

Hi Dotty

Thanks very much for your comments they are really helpful.

My daughter is on average at school at the moment and she is also quite mature for her age. She is very excited about moving to france and she shares the same love for france as we do. I had heard that some children redo a year and i have explained this to jasmine and she is fine about it. So i am not worried that it may reduce her confidence.

We are looking in the area of Vendee, round about that area but not entirely sure yet.

Thanks again

Alison

 

[Unknown]

Alison

Have just sent you a pm

Dotty

[steve]

Hi,

My name is Dan i'm 15 and i've lived over here in france for just over 4and a half months.

About a year ago my dad (Steve) said he wanted to move to france and i absolutly detested the idea, i had the stubborn attitude that i didnt want to leave my friends behind and would hate it in france. Six months later i still hated the idea, and two months after that i still hated it. A day before we were set to move I just accepted that i could'nt be bothered to argue anymore and went along with it.

We got here in June this year which was the middle of the summer holidays so i had two months to relax and settle in at home. (Let me just add i could'nt speak a word of french.) Two months later just when i was getting used to staying at home i was set to join a school 'Collége Voltaire' and was obviously very very nervous of the language and the other children.

We went for an interview with the principal and because neither myself, my mum or my dad can speak french they arranged for the school english teacher (who speaks perfect english) to come and translate for us. He told me not to be worried and that there were two other english kids in the school and that i could come to him whenever i had a problem. And also the french being very kind and helpful re-arranged the whole class i was joining's lessons so that my 'professeur principal' (form tutor) was the english teacher. After my first day i absolutly loved it, which is strange as i hated school in england and until this day two months on i still love it. I cant speak french but am picking bits up and everybody in france has been learning english for years so they can all speak small english to me. I've made some friends and the french people are very nice and very helpful and i really feel at home here. Theres no school uniform, theres a half day on wednesday and the school dinners are very nice, but not only that french schools are very helpful and give me private french lessons on my own. I've only been here 4 months and already i am saying that i never want to move back to england.

So what i'm basically saying is that it may seem daunting at first which i cant deny but just be brave give it a go and i can garantee that after a month you will feel very welcome and settled. I'm not saying it wont be hard because it will but you get out what you put in and the more effort you put in and the more you try the better.

I still speak to my english friends on msn but i prefer to speak to my french friends and the only thing that i regret is not trying to learn french before. If you try to learn it now, by the time you move here you'll speak alot and a few months in you will love it here.

Hope this is helpful...

Dan

[Tresco]

Thats a very interesting post Dan, and thanks for taking the time to make it. I'm very glad to hear directly from an older 'child' who is happy with the move they've made, and  I wish you well.[:)]

Regarding Alisons' questions, and your post, the part I found most noteworthy was this:

[quote user="steve"]I still speak to my english friends on msn but i prefer to speak to my french friends and the only thing that i regret is not trying to learn french before. If you try to learn it now, by the time you move here you'll speak alot and a few months in you will love it here.[/quote]

As Alison has two years to go there is plenty of time for her daughter, if not the whole family together, to have private French language lessons before arriving here.

[fulcrum]

[quote user="Ac50"]

Everone is different, but I know none of our teenagers regret the time they spent here at school in France.

[/quote]

I came to France in 1989 and placed my son in the local school for one year. He then went back to UK and got an Aa in French. He has since not regretted learning French as he found a job working with the European parliament in Bruxelles.

[Tresco]

How old was your son when you brought him here, fulcrum? What was his level of French language when he came?

This isn't basic noseiness, though I am capable of that, of course.

[Alison]

Hi Dan

Thanks verry much for your message i will get my daughter to read it and hopefully it will help her.

 

Thanks

Alison

[fulcrum]

[quote user="Tresco"]

How old was your son when you brought him here, fulcrum? What was his level of French language when he came?

This isn't basic noseiness, though I am capable of that, of course.

[/quote]

He was 15 and didn't know much French at all. So it was quite a slog for him at first. I don't think it's really a problem for kids around that age to pick up language, as long as they're prpared to muck in with the local kids.

[Alison]

Thnaks for your pm dotty.  I did reply but not sure if you received it.

Jasmine would be really grateful to your daughter for that, and i think it would really help her to understand alot about what it will be like for her.

Thanks again

Alison

[parsac23]

Our daughter was the one that was most enthusiastic about her move to France, however she lasted a year and 1 month and was increasingley miserable as the time went on. The teachers had no experience of any other English kids in the college and basicly left her to her own devices, which meant copying from the board or just sitting and waiting for the lesson to be over. We got a French tutor for her and this helped a great deal. She is a very bright girl having just got 4A* including French, 3 A's and 3B's in her GCSE, she missed the whole of year 9 and then returned to the UK. The french teachers said in her reports that she had a bad attitude and never tried, which was a real negative  and we never seemed to move forward from there. We regret putting her through the experience.

[mitsi]

Having read the threads on here it leads me to the conclusion that everyone is different, at the end of the day you will know if your child can cope. We moved here nearly 3 years age with girls of 6 and 2, so in many ways it was easier for us at that age. The 6 year old put us through hell for a few months as she missed her friends so much, but now she doesn't remember! They are both doing well at school and whilst looking forward to visiting UK for Xmas and doing English things for a change (and English food - Pizza Hut!! OK not English but you know what I mean) they would never want to live back in England. I have a 12 year old Niece who thinks France very boring and too quiet and there is no way she would move here and I think she would struggle and hate it if she were ever forced to move.

It will be a hard decision whatever you choose, but I was always told it's the things that you don't do in life that you regret most.

[Miki]

[quote] Mitsi

.................they would never want to live back in England.[/quote]

Never...........Sorry but that is simply going too far. You never know what the future holds for you or the children in France. Three years is not very long at all and much of what is happening now to the girls, is a picnic to what arrives in later education. Good luck to anyone who comes to live in France with children but those that have lived here a while, have to hold a realistic line on what kids will do later on...for one thing....300,000 or more young French kids living & working in the UK, tells its own story surely ?

Remember, your eldest didn't want to come here but settled, no reason that if they went back it would not be the same story. Kids adapt, many parents come here for their own agenda, though many will say it was purely for the kids benefits..........................(and I am not putting that on you personally)

[timc17]

Miki is spot-on.

Our eldest was 14 when we came here (under protest) last year. She is settled , fluent , has lots of friends and a steady boyfriend BUT can't wait to go back when she's 18/19 for Uni. If we'd let her she'd move back next year to do A-levels even though it would mean her being at boarding school and away from the family. Our youngest (now 10) is the total opposite. He's so much happier here compared to the UK. Most people on this forum agree that the earlier kids come here the better they will adapt and that has certainly been our experience.

 

Tim. 

[Wendy]

Hi Steve,

it is my understanding that, in the UK, students from 11 years of age MUST learn a foreign language. Which did you learn...Spanish or German, if French, why can you not speak a word?. Your parents deserve a caning too. You may have been accepted into your College, but, if you wish to enter a Lycee you had better get fluent in French pretty darn fast. The College is obliged by law to take you only until you are 16.  Once you are 16, if your French is not up to scratch forget about any further education.  Once you are 16 the College can drop you completely. And believe me, no Lycee will accept you if you are not fluent, writing and speaking, up to THEIR standards.  I know this for a fact as this has happened to us.  By the way, for a 15 year old, your grammar and punctuation is dreadful.  Original Poster take note.

[Russethouse]

Bit like your comprehension then, Wen. His name is Dan.[:D]

 

[Wendy]

Well, whatever RH, my reply is to the both of them. And to anyone else, with families and teenagers, who cannot speak a word of french, DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER settling in Dept 66 and expect them to educate your kids at Lycee level. Either move here when they are babies or not at all. And we have this from the head honcho herself here.

[mascamps.com]

Quite a few issues raised along the way.

To Alison and those planning a move: well done! Planning is very important and one of the key things that will ease your path here is fluency in the language. It's not a massively long task to reach fluency (from GCSE to fluency took me three years but the first two could easily have been done in one). The kids may find it easier in that it's easier to learn a language when you're young BUT that pre-supposes that the schools in the area will actually give them the opportunity. We were told by various organisations in our quest to get a 16 year old into school that France considers that as education is voluntary after 16 that they don't need to do anything for foreigners who don't speak it fluently by 16 (and I do stress "fluently" as "getting by" won't cut it). Net effect was that we found that, even though we put considerable effort into it, it was impossible to get an education for William because he turned 17 just months after we got here. More on our little saga on our blog at http://www.foreignperspectives.com/will-your-child-have-any-problems-getting-into-school-in-france/2006/09/05/opinion.htm .

For timc17 and those in a similar situation planning on going back... take care with the English! If your daughter is planning on going back to do A-levels then she will need to know the vocabulary in English at GCSE level for her subjects. If she's going to a French-language school then she won't learn that vocabulary (unless she's planning on doing A-level French, of course) and will find it almost as difficult as a foreigner would.

More generally on the language issue, do bear in mind that your kids really need TV, magazines and books in English if you're hoping for them to be bilingual. The "problem" becomes greater the longer you are here and the younger your kids were when you moved. We went to a marriage in the English community here a few months back and saw almost the complete cross-section. Friends who'd moved about 5 years back now find that they can barely communicate with their 10 year old daugher as her English isn't good enough and neither is their French (they created an almost totally French environment here). It's easier but not easy to communicate with the 13/14 year olds (co-incidently here about 4/5 years too). Notably for timc17's situation, the 17 year olds speak a considerable number of English words with a French accent and there were noticeable gaps in their English vocabulary (naturally they'd done the French equivalent of GCSEs here hence didn't know a lot of English "adult" words).

We happened across an estate agent whilst buying our place so saw the effect of this 20 something years down the line. He was born here 20-odd years ago to British parents. His English accent was perfect and, to my ear, so was his French accent. Yet he was the hardest person to speak to in English that I've ever met. Why? Well, he'd only ever heard his parents accent (20-odd years back there weren't nearly so many brits here as now, no Sky TV, etc.). He'd not even learnt English as a subject so couldn't read or write it. No English-language schooling meant that he knew hardly any of the adult vocabulary and grammar that you pick up in school, not from your parents (eg he didn't know the words for bits of houses even though he was working as an estate agent). Also, all the little words like "em", "ah", "well", "however", etc. that you use everyday to join your sentences up were never taught to him. That's how the English of your kids will turn out 20 years down the line if you don't do something about it.

How do you avoid this? Well, we create an English-language environment at home, only UK TV, English children's books, etc. to balance the French environment that the kids get at home. Not a problem for James who's only 4 but I think that we'll need to look at a bilingual or international school for him after primary school (there aren't many of these in France) as I don't know that we'd be able to keep his English vocabulary in tandem with the French at that point.

 

Arnold