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We'd like to buy a property in France, where do we start? :/


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Hi to everyone!

My wife and I have been to Provence recently and fell in love with this lovely stone house, just beside a lavender field: yes, just like the ones you see in postcards! :D

since then we decided that we would start considering buying one of our own. Thing is we're not very familiar with the property market in France and our knowledge of French is pretty scarce to say the least :/

We'd really like a house similar to the one we saw (or even that one, although I doubt it's for sale..i mean, why would it be! :D) and I tried googling stuff like "stone cottage france lavender" but nothing pertinent seems to appear, unsurprisingly.

We also checked online for some agencies but what we're worried about is not so much the buying of the house but all that's related to that, e.g. renovation, legal affairs, bureaucracy..and for what I heard France is quite bureaucratic when it comes to property buying!

Does anyone here know about agencies that go a few steps further than simply selling you a house? Has someone here recently bought a house and can give me some advice on that?

Cos for example if we were to find something similar to the stone house we saw the amount of renovating would be enormous considering water and energy supply, sewage links, etc. and I really don't know how we could figure out all that on our own, especially in a foreign country!

Maybe we're just being a bit unrealistic here, but if anyone could give us a hand in this we'd be very thankful :)

I'm new to this forum, so i hope it's okay for me to post this kind of topic, if not feel free to let me know :)

Steven
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Welcome to the forum!

I think your questions are too imprecise and it would be difficult for any one person (unless they are an estate agent and are desperate to sell you a house!) to give you anwers to them.

Why not start by saying which part of the Povence you visited, near which town, etc.  Then people who live in or know those areas may come here to give you their views.

Then you could begin by googling houses for sale in that area and get an idea of price, locations. etc.  You will also find estate agents and owners advertising on the web taht way.

Not all houses need renovating so you need to focus on a few houses that are in your price range and see what, if anything, needs doing.  Indeed you might  find one that has already been renovated.  Just beware that "habitable" does not necessarily mean that they are habitable by your standards.

Once you have found a house or two or three, you can begin to ask specific questions about amenities and other questions to do with them.

Until you have done some initial homework, as I have described, and narrowed down your questions, it's well nigh impossible for anyone to give you answers.

Finding anwers is the easy part, it's the questions that you want answered that could take you some time preparing!

To sound a bit more encouraging, many people have bought houses, speaking and understanding little French, and have managed the "business" side of it when they have needed to.  It's just a case of one step at a time.

Good luck and enjoy your house-hunt.  

 

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You will find there are agents who will do all the work for you ....for a fee if you find a property they give you a lead to.

They will daily check every property that estate agents get on their books in the whole region They will visit and photograph them and report and advise on a fair price and act for you on the purchase . You can drop out of the arrangement without charge at any time if they don',t find what you are seeking .. I think you will find now you have joined us lot of help will be offered by those on this forum who have already gone down the road you are now on

Most of us did all the searching ourselves taking in some cases a very long time to find the properties we now own ...In my case three years .

There is a lot of fun in doing it and a lot of research needed to gain the confidence to proceed but its not as scary as it may seem to be when setting out . I suppose it depends on your finances and the time you have at your disposal to do it all yourself or take the service of an agent to act for you. Whatever you decide I wish you best of luck
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My recommendation is go back to Provence at least a couple of times more to scout out areas you like and Estate Agents that cover those areas. Also visit in mid winter and mid summer, as Provence tends to have extremes of weather going from unbearably hot in summer to extremely cold with biting winds in winter. (Like Scotland!) I read an article on Provence property the other week saying that foreign buyer interest was waining, as you can find yourself somewhat cut off with little to do once the novelty has worn off and buyers were increasingly looking to be nearer larger metropolitran areas or the coast. Either way with the weak French property market forecast to continue to decline you are in no rush so take your time, as buying and selling costs are much higher than the UK, so buying in the wrong area can be an expensive mistake if you decide after a few years to move again.
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As I recently mentioned to antother forum member, to get a feel of what is available, where and prices you could look here

http://www.leboncoin.fr/ventes_immobilieres/offres/provence_alpes_cote_d_azur/?f=a&th=1

and plug in the parameters to suit.

The great thing is that you can do it from the comfort of your own home, even if some of the ads have to be taken with a pinch of salt !

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Hi, nice to see a new face. It's me, popping along with my bucket of cold water. Don't worry, it's meant kindly.

If you're looking for a holiday home, it's a well-trodden path and there's plenty of information all over the internet, so Google will be your friend, and will provide you with a lot of information for starters. This and many other forums contain a wealth of information about buying a property in France, and cover the joys and the pitfalls in depth. Read, learn and digest.

Don't be in a hurry. The reality and the dream are poles apart.

There are plenty of estate agents who will hold your hand and take your money, although the halcyon days of "English" estate agents are long gone, and as far as many of them are/were concerned, that's not always a bad thing. Oh, and most of all, if you see a house you like, look everywhere for it. Look with several agents and look carefully. In general you'll find the same house several times and at varying prices, depending on whether the agent's fees are high or low, included or not. And if you use a hand-holder, they'll probably bung another few grand on top for helping you...so suddenly a cheapish house can get quite expensive.

I don't know how much it will "cost" you (I mean on top of the purchase price) to buy a house these days, as I'm a bit out of touch, but bear in mind that it's expensive and will add substantially to what you think is the purchase price. Agent and Notaire both collect fairly whopping fees, so it's not a cheap affair, whatever the property value. And think long and hard. Once you've found and bought a place, whether it's a permanent or a holiday home, the upkeep, local taxes and the percentage in extra tax and CGT that the French government will subtract if you sell it again will be a revelation, trust me. Oh, and if it needs work, and you're no DIY expert, then think of what you might need to spend to bring it up to habitable and then double it and add another 25%. And don't think I'm joking, as I'm not.

If you're thinking of buying somewhere to live in full time, then don't do it just because you saw a postcard house whilst on holiday. Not till you understand about healthcare, taxes, and the cost of living.

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Provence is a fantastic region but as Betty and others suggest, do not let your heart rule your wallet.

 

Do lots of research.  Start here with the search facility.  Look at estate agent offerings - if your French (no matter how ropey) is up to it try doing a search in Google.fr or yahoo.fr for "immo" followed by a town or area you are interested in.   For example you could try "Immo Manosque"  or Immo 84 - which will give you results for Vaucluse (Departement 84).   You could also look for 13, 83, 06, 04 and even 26.

 

This will give you an idea of prices.  As stated, notaire fees and often agency fees are to be added - so think of around 12% on top of the stated sales price.

 

If it is a renovation project you will need 1000€ to 1500€ per square metre of floor area ( not foot print) as additional resource. 

 

If it is a holiday home you will need to source furniture and electrical goods - and it is surprising how the costs mount up.

 

Be sure that you can convert that barn to a house before you buy and also be aware that a house that has not been lived in for years may no longer be legally a house.

 

As already stated visit in winter, spring and autumn as well as the height if summer.   Places that buzz in summer can be dead for 8 months of the year (or more).  Restaurants can shut up, as can many of the amenities.   The weather can be a real shock if you are unprepared.  Very cold winters - even down almost to the Med. coast - with snow that can cut off roads for days.   The Mistral - a cold lazy cutting and strong wind - can really be as bad as depicted in a "Year in Provence" - not necessarily recommended reading but you might get some hints of the pitfalls.

 

In the UK we talk of 3 important points that should define your purchase - Location, location and location.

Buying in France I would advise on - Research, research and research.

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I don't think anyone has mentioned how much rates can vary from commune to commune. We didn't take this into account at all when we were house searching and were very lucky that we chose (without knowing it) a house where the rates were about E150 a year less than in the next commune which was only about 200m away.

Hoddy
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We went through the process this year in Provence, not next to a lavender field but in the hills 12km from the sea and St Tropez.

We have wanted to do it for years but only had the cash this year.

It was very simple with research and maybe a bit of luck meeting the right people, one thing i would advise is not using builders etc suggested by the agents, we nearly did and it would have cost us thousands.

This was out timetable to show how quickly it went.

January we visited for 2 weeks to view properties, it was actually the first one we viewed we bought but saw loads more before we made an offer.

March we returned to sign and collect the keys, spent 2 weeks living in the house with no heating or kitchen while we found builders electricians etc.

June we returned for 2 weeks and all the work promised on the first 2 floors was completed, new kitchen, rewired, replastered etc. so we spent a week cleaning and furnishing it and by the second week had family join us for a relaxing holiday.

August 2 full weeks relaxing :-)

Next week we return and the final floor has been finished with a new bathroom all that we now need to do is choose a log burner to go with the newly lined chimney.

Ours is a 400 year old stone village house in a village that doesn't close for winter and is still very French.

As we used locals for all the work we seem to have been accepted well into the village and our house is now worth around €60k more than we spent on it, if we had gone with the estate agents it would have cost us that much more.

Please ask if you want more specific details.

James
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James, I am not too far from you and the only thing I would strongly recommend is put in reverse cycle air conditioning if you can, as it is an energy efficient way to heat and cool a house these days. Also it keeps the house dry and if it is a mason secondaire it heats and dries out the house within hours, if you visit in winter, as a log burner or conventional electric panel heaters can take days to warm and dry out a cold house.

A lot of people who buy in the south of France under estimate how very cold and wet the winters can be, especially in recent years.

I hear what you are saying about the village not closing for winter and being inland will certainly not be as bad as the Var coast, which shuts down in winter, but don't fool yourself as even inland where you are a lot of places do close, although I quite like it that time of year for the peace and quiet.
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Thanks for the advice re aircon.

Where are you?

We have been visiting the area and our village for 15 years and the reason why we chose the village is because it doesn't shut down, even in January there is at least one if not more places to eat and drink open every day.

I must say I do like going down to St Tropez or Saint Maxime when it's all quiet and having a walk around.

Back in 4 days :D

James
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I am near Saint Maxime and love the area, but have been disappointed with the winter climate between November and May, which in recent years has been unusually wet and cold. The last few winters have experienced records amounts of rain with resulting flash floods.  You should still find the weather reasonably good this month, but come the beginning of November when the clocks have gone back you can almost guarantee the heavens will open and whilst you will get the odd good day, the reality is that the period of settled weather does not start until well into May these days.

 

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Wow what a response I got from my topic!

Thanks so much to each and every one of you :)

from what I've read it really seems like I need to do some proper research to have a clearer idea on where and what to buy exactly.

Your replies really gave me lots of useful information, I will keep them in mind when making my decision.

I might ask for some other advice later in time, a bit more precise maybe :)

Thanks again and a nice day to you all,

Steven
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Steven

Do not worry about not speaking much French - agents want to sell and you will communicate. For correspondence you can use Google to translate from English to French and vice versa.

My findings of French estate agents are that they can be very creative photographers, the property may not be anywhere near where they say and the descriptions may not be accurate. Hence browsing the Internet helps but not 100%.

From my point of view the way it goes is:

You find a house you want

Make an offer and if accepted you sign a document that ties you in to buying.

Some agents will draw up the document of, as in my case a Notaire who is responsible for collecting taxes as well as the legal side (note they are not like English solicitors who will advise you). This will take place very soon after the offer has been accepted so not like the English system of months passing before exchange of contracts. you will also pay a % or 10% deposit.

Now there is a set fee for the Notaire and buyer and seller can use the same one or each appoint their own and there is no difference in the cost. In my case I used the website www.notaires.fr to find the nearest one who spoke English (the sellers one did not).

At the stipulated date you will sign the Acte and the property is yours. However, just before signing you should visit the property to ensure that it is as it should be.

Best of luck.

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[quote user="PaulT"]However, just before signing you should visit the property to ensure that it is as it should be.

[/quote]

Just to add that once you have signed what is there is yours. This can work to your advantage or disadvantage. I seem to remember somebody on the forum years ago ending up using two skips to remove the old rubbish left by the previous owner. In my case the house was clean, the grass was cut and the owners took all the veg in the big veg patch with them as well but left the (working) ride on lawnmower.

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[quote user="PaulT"]

Make an offer and if accepted you sign a document that ties you in to buying.

[/quote]

If the property requires any work doing either to bring it to a habitable condition to to achieve a finish that you require, then do not sign anything until you have a firm, written quotation from a reputable local builder (preferably not one recommended by the agent).

Whatever you need the agent will assure you that it can be done at reasonable cost.

In France nothing gets done at reasonable cost compared to what we think it may cost.

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Crikey - have you been put off yet?!

Steven - not sure what age you both are but - if you're young and healthy then just go for it and follow your heart - what the heck!

If you're not then have a good long think about what you BOTH REALLY are looking for - lavender is not in bloom all year round, if you get my drift. You may need to use your head more than your heart. The practicalities of living in France as non-French speakers can be daunting and overwhelming. I never lived in such an insular country.

I lived in the Luberon for many years - stunning, but even stunning can wear a bit thin - more to life than stunning, lavender, and stone cottages. You may have heard about 'Mistral Madness' - completely true (no doubt many on here would say that it got to me!). You've got to LOVE wind and cold winters.

I better stop there! Best of luck whatever you decide - ''here for a good time not a long time'' and all that......

Chiefluvvie :-)

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